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 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Maybe they'll have feedback forums on their website - Banhammer

Maybe they'll open up comments on their facebook page - Banhammer

Maybe they'll support their specialist game ranges - Banhammer

Maybe they'll support their player base vs. just pandering to the new kids with hordes o'cash their parents don't need - Winning!

Maybe they'll release all the armies before initiating a new edition - Banhammer

Maybe, Maybe, Maybe - there's 67+ pages of things "maybe" GW will do and ZERO precedence for it. The only thing they've consistently done is raise prices and sell a shitton of models.

Don't you worry folks, If you want IG/AM, I'll have them posted in my trade thread tomorrow.

I'm out of 40k. Send me your Horde Trolls and I'll just finish painting my Fantasy Empire.

A reasoned and proportional response to a fluff piece in a sales brochure ladies and gentlemen! *clap clap*

If you want to quit, that's your choice, of course, I understand there is much to criticise GW for, I can often be found doing it, but... for this.. really?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Maybe they'll have feedback forums on their website - Banhammer

Maybe they'll open up comments on their facebook page - Banhammer

Maybe they'll support their specialist game ranges - Banhammer

Maybe they'll support their player base vs. just pandering to the new kids with hordes o'cash their parents don't need - Winning!

Maybe they'll release all the armies before initiating a new edition - Banhammer

Maybe, Maybe, Maybe - there's 67+ pages of things "maybe" GW will do and ZERO precedence for it. The only thing they've consistently done is raise prices and sell a shitton of models.

Don't you worry folks, If you want IG/AM, I'll have them posted in my trade thread tomorrow.

I'm out of 40k. Send me your Horde Trolls and I'll just finish painting my Fantasy Empire.

LOL, so let me get this straight, you're getting out of 40k, which looks to be destroyed this edition (I have absolutely NO faith that GW won't screw this up and nobody else has any reason to believe otherwise either as far as I can tell) and instead playing another game made by the same company?

Fantasy is still GW. If they do it to 40k, I don't see why they won't do the same to WHFB eventually.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

Maybe, Maybe, Maybe - there's 67+ pages of things "maybe" GW will do and ZERO precedence for it. The only thing they've consistently done is raise prices and sell a shitton of models.

Don't you worry folks, If you want IG/AM, I'll have them posted in my trade thread tomorrow.

I'm out of 40k. Send me your Horde Trolls and I'll just finish painting my Fantasy Empire.

I feel the same, but sleep on it. No reason to hurry this decision, if the other half the coin is to believed. Those folks will love to pick up your models at a premium, still.

If the book comes out and stinks, I'll probably be hitting up bartertown with my Sisters and Eldar armies. I just know if I'm not playing them, I won't paint them. I'll keep Dayglow Wing as a show piece and my Bretonnian to paint up. There are at least 3 list ideas I had planned to build after my Eldar, but I am no longer their crowd to be catered to.

However, I will be accepting Firestorm Armada, Cryx, Cricle of Orboros, Ariadna, Yu-Jing and collectors/painters models...

Here is the thing. IT is not about comparative value. It is about straight value.

If those other things are so valuable for 100 bucks, then buy them instead. Why is there even a conversation or comparison? It would be a no brainer that you should buy the others if you felt the values were equal but the prices are not.

It was not a bad analogy, do I wish I got more for my dollar? Sure I wish I got more for my dollar on everything. But that does not change the fact that if I feel like I am getting my value I will buy it, if I dont I wont.

If you dont feel like you are getting your value but continue to buy it that sounds like idiocy on your part, not GW.

Let me present it to you a different way. Since those games are so cheap it does not make sense to charge a lot for anything. I would not be willing to spend 100 to keep playing with 200 dollars worth of models. However for the 2k+ I have spent over the years I have no problem paying 100 every few years to keep playing a game with a much more wide spread audience, that I enjoy playing, and knowing that I can go to almost any city and be able to play the game. These niche games are great and cheap but are in no ways equal in the grand scheme of things that 40k offers.

 azreal13 wrote:
Honestly, I do believe that wagamers are worse than football (soccer) fans when it comes to overreacting to little or no information and a whole load of supposition.

The WD scan states verbatim that you can literally take an army of riptides. If you feel that throwing in the towel is an "overreaction" to that, then I envy you for your Zen mastery.

 azreal13 wrote:
If you want to quit, that's your choice, of course, I understand there is much to criticise GW for, I can often be found doing it, but... for this.. really?

From my standpoint, it's been pages and pages of ranting over next to nothing. I expected better out of certain posters, TBH.

So if your army of riptides loses because I got one victory point on turn two and you have no scoring units. Is your army of riptides still good?

 Leth wrote:

If you dont feel like you are getting your value but continue to buy it that sounds like idiocy on your part, not GW.

There are reasons why the idiom "a fool and his money are soon parted," exist. If you can separate yourself from the adoration of 40k and compare two similar companies (or all the similar companies) that offer you a service, wargaming as a hobby, choose which one legitimately gives you the best value for your dollar? Value in terms of measurable quality of content, customer support, product longevity, and player/community support.

Breaking it down objectively will always leave Games Workshop and their products at the bottom of that list. Our love of Warhammer 40k and our Spess Mehrines and what not obfuscates rational judgement. Sunk cost also does this.

I'm not saying you're a fool for buying GW products or liking 40k, but to ignore their business practices or accept them blindly, including price, is foolish. They could do better. And we should spend our money better.

 Leth wrote:
So if your army of riptides loses because I got one victory point on turn two and you have no scoring units. Is your army of riptides still good?

You seem to be implying that you won't be tabled by an army of riptides.

Last Post for 40k:

They already have done worse to Fantasy, but there's no one up in arms as no one cares.

I've been around long enough to play all editions of 40k and this is by far the the biggest bunch of crap I've ever seen.

They can't do this amount of crap to Fantasy because they've already run off everyone with their tinkering - but for some reason 40k is the only thing that generates the nerd rage.

Enjoy the rest of the 40+pages to come of rage/quit or rationalization of why 7th ed of GW 40k will be the best eva!

If you have Hordes Trollbloods, let me know.

 ZultanQ wrote:

 Leth wrote:
So if your army of riptides loses because I got one victory point on turn two and you have no scoring units. Is your army of riptides still good?

You seem to be implying that you won't be tabled by an army of riptides.

I won't be. Not after I have two Revenant Titans standing in as many voidshields I can further buy.

 ZultanQ wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Honestly, I do believe that wagamers are worse than football (soccer) fans when it comes to overreacting to little or no information and a whole load of supposition.

The WD scan states verbatim that you can literally take an army of riptides. If you feel that throwing in the towel is an "overreaction" to that, then I envy you for your Zen mastery.

I just don't intend to regularly play Unbound games, and sure as hell won't be playing ANY as pick up games. You can too!

Honestly, I have reservations, I really do, but I'm just not willing to throw myself out of the window yet.

Others are, inexplicably, reminding me of these guys..

 Uriels_Flame wrote:


If you have Hordes Trollbloods, let me know.

Trolls suck.

Cryx 4 lyfe

 Jaiste wrote:

 Leprousy wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Jaceevoke wrote:
I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the cost of the rulebook...

Because we only got the last one.

2 years really isn't that short of a time frame, it just feels short because we're used to it being longer.

What is the renewal timetable for comparative games? How long as Infinity or Warmahordes gone between editions?

Oh dear god I am so glad I just traded my IG, oops I mean AM, for another pile of privateer press models. I'm running outta stuff to paint anyway, and 40k looks like it is about to be a clusterfeth...

Believe it or not there's a whole forum dedicated to Warmachine on this very site. Go there.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/27.page

I'm just as concerned as anyone with these 7ed changes but comments like the above add nothing of value. And yes, I know that this doesn't either.

It just staggers the mind as to how so many people who only wish to dance on GWs grave fill their time with posting on GW threads/topics.

I do find it very interesting that you bash my comment AFTER editing out my answer to the previous question that Warmahordes is on 2nd edition after TEN YEARS! Way to go purposefully editing out my contribution to the conversation, so that you can say that I'm dancing on GWs grave. You know this game that I have played since Rogue Trader days that I just traded off my last 40k minis because I can no longer in anyway support how they abuse their customers by putting out a ridiculously poor product. I fail to see how my unedited comments failed to add to the conversation.

Could be a good thing to happen maybe it will seperate the game for those who want to play WAAC with ridiculous combos and those who want to play normally

I'm trying to remain optimistic, I really am, but the first thought upon reading the unbound/battle forged thing was "dear God, what have they done". I'll wait and see what it does, but if this truly pushes 40k from being a "game" to being simply an exercise in collecting models and going "pew pew", this may be the straw that breaks my back for 40k and Games Workshop in general.

I'm going to assume that no force org is a special game scenario that wasn't couched correctly by the article author. If it is not it has to be the dumbest thing I have ever seen in gaming. 40k is not like WarmaHordes, that is built around taking whatever you want, force org makes the lists some what balanced. Removing it requires the game to be rebalanced from the ground up.

Either way, I'm not buying it at least until the fall after things sort out. It's not like I play much anyway being as csm player.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Leth wrote:

If you dont feel like you are getting your value but continue to buy it that sounds like idiocy on your part, not GW.

There are reasons why the idiom "a fool and his money are soon parted," exist. If you can separate yourself from the adoration of 40k and compare two similar companies (or all the similar companies) that offer you a service, wargaming as a hobby, choose which one legitimately gives you the best value for your dollar? Value in terms of measurable quality of content, customer support, product longevity, and player/community support.

Breaking it down objectively will always leave Games Workshop and their products at the bottom of that list. Our love of Warhammer 40k and our Spess Mehrines and what not obfuscates rational judgement. Sunk cost also does this.

I'm not saying you're a fool for buying GW products or liking 40k, but to ignore their business practices or accept them blindly, including price, is foolish. They could do better. And we should spend our money better.

I have tried other systems, and I just dont get the value that I do for 40k. I can go to any city and play 40k, I can go to plenty of 2 day tournaments(there are 4-5 within the next three months that I could easily attend). I get to convert and paint and play whatever I want and make it my own. I never said I was a fan of their business practices and the value you get from a product is 100% subjective.

You cant objectively value those things because the weight an individual places on each thing is going to be different. I have seen many games come and go over the years. GW wins in longevity. I have models that are 20 years old that I can still play with today. I actually throughly enjoyed 6th edition, much more than other games I have tried. Player and community support? See the above comments. Player support? Over the years I have probably gotten a thousand or more in replacements or free things from GW.

So once again you are trying to make an objective argument that is based in subjective views. Also lets do actual amounts we pay versus retail. I never see discounts on warmachine infinity etc but I can always get GW for 25% off if I want to.

 ZultanQ wrote:

 Leth wrote:
So if your army of riptides loses because I got one victory point on turn two and you have no scoring units. Is your army of riptides still good?

You seem to be implying that you won't be tabled by an army of riptides.

You are also implying that tabling your opponent will still be an auto win.

 azreal13 wrote:

 ZultanQ wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Honestly, I do believe that wagamers are worse than football (soccer) fans when it comes to overreacting to little or no information and a whole load of supposition.

The WD scan states verbatim that you can literally take an army of riptides. If you feel that throwing in the towel is an "overreaction" to that, then I envy you for your Zen mastery.

I just don't intend to regularly play Unbound games, and sure as hell won't be playing ANY as pick up games. You can too!

Honestly, I have reservations, I really do, but I'm just not willing to throw myself out of the window yet.

Others are, inexplicably, reminding me of these guys..

British humor, everyone.

If your opponents want to use over-abusive armies, than don't play against them that's all.

I play with friends, we are 12 in this group and no one wants to play with these rules = we will keep playing with the previous ones.

This situation reminds me of Microsoft Windows : windows XP was very good and was mainely used. Windows Vista was a piece of scrap and nobody used it, peoples kept running with their old be reliable XP. Microsoft had no choice but to offer an new version to correct the situation.

If gamers don't buy and play the new W40k rules, than GW would have to correct the situation to keep their gamers hooked on W40k.

 TheKbob wrote:

 ZultanQ wrote:

 Leth wrote:
So if your army of riptides loses because I got one victory point on turn two and you have no scoring units. Is your army of riptides still good?

You seem to be implying that you won't be tabled by an army of riptides.

I won't be. Not after I have two Revenant Titans standing in as many voidshields I can further buy.

Little did you know, that THIS SUMMER...

INTRODUCING

*drumroll*

RIPTIDE TITANS WITH Z STRENGTH WEAPONS.

Z STRENGTH DAMAGE TABLE:

1 - weapons malfunction: your mega blaster super death fire sunstrike alpha launcher explodes, you must rip the gun off your model and purchase a new one
2 - reality tear: the sheer awesomeness of your guns have torn a hole in reality, now you must put 10k point of units from Codex: Chaos Demon Emperor Clones. If you do not have 10k points of CCDEC units, you lose the game and must kill yourself
3 - boom shokka lokka - the result explosion from your gun kills 50% of your opponent's army and he/she must immediately donate d6 x $100 to Games Workshop
4 through 6 - whatever we forgot to write these rules, deal with it

 ClockworkZion wrote:
2 years really isn't that short of a time frame, it just feels short because we're used to it being longer.

Yes it is. Look at the other games listed. 2 years is nothing. And it means one of two things:

1. GW know 6th is a mess, so have 7th to fix it (but this would imply that they acknowledge the game is problems).
2. They just want to boost the figures for that quarter, and edition releases always boost sales.

Given that we have no indication that the people writing the game understand the game they're writing (Ref. everything they've done for the past year, their obsession with 'Forging a Narrative'), my money's on the former: A cynical cash-grap to tick a box in a quarterly report.

What do you guys make of the Psychic Phase and the open FOC now form the leaked White Dwarf issue?

 Leth wrote:
So if your army of riptides loses because I got one victory point on turn two and you have no scoring units. Is your army of riptides still good?

Don't be surprised if the concept of troops being the only scoring units goes away. After all, we can't have unbound armies getting crushed because the "awesome" all-LRBT army the WD author is going to to buy can't claim objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
What do you guys make of the Psychic Phase and the open FOC now form the leaked White Dwarf issue?

Stupid as hell. But that's what we should expect from GW, stupid changes for the sake of having changes.

 meecham63 wrote:
If your opponents want to use over-abusive armies, than don't play against them that's all.

I read this and my mind immediately went to "if your opponents want to try and use the rules of the game you're playing to try and win, don't play against them". I'm not a WAAC player by any means, but it just seems comically silly to me that such things even have to be said.

I play with friends, we are 12 in this group and no one wants to play with these rules = we will keep playing with the previous ones.

This situation reminds me of Microsoft Windows : windows XP was very good and was mainely used. Windows Vista was a piece of scrap and nobody used it, peoples kept running with their old be reliable XP. Microsoft had no choice but to offer an new version to correct the situation.

If gamers don't buy and play the new W40k rules, than GW would have to correct the situation to keep their gamers hooked on W40k.

It's possible that many people will stay with the old edition, but rarely (ever?) is a split in the community to be good for that community.

 ZultanQ wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Honestly, I do believe that wagamers are worse than football (soccer) fans when it comes to overreacting to little or no information and a whole load of supposition.

The WD scan states verbatim that you can literally take an army of riptides. If you feel that throwing in the towel is an "overreaction" to that, then I envy you for your Zen mastery.

Actually, "verbatim", it says 4 Riptides and a bunch of Broadsides.

 azreal13 wrote:
Honestly, I do believe that wagamers are worse than football (soccer) fans when it comes to overreacting to little or no information and a whole load of supposition.

People are reacting to Games Workshop's own attempt to present 7th edition in the best possible light. They put their best foot forward, and it has gangrene on it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Leth wrote:
So if your army of riptides loses because I got one victory point on turn two and you have no scoring units. Is your army of riptides still good?

Don't be surprised if the concept of troops being the only scoring units goes away. After all, we can't have unbound armies getting crushed because the "awesome" all-LRBT army the WD author is going to to buy can't claim objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
What do you guys make of the Psychic Phase and the open FOC now form the leaked White Dwarf issue?

Stupid as hell. But that's what we should expect from GW, stupid changes for the sake of having changes.

To be honest it really pisses me off how much we have to pay for this hobby sometimes. Like they are just racking in the cash by putting out a new book, when arguably, it really isnt needed yet. I would be fine with another year or two of 6th edition thank you.

 meecham63 wrote:
If your opponents want to use over-abusive armies, than don't play against them that's all.

I play with friends,...

...and that's why you're not understanding what people are cranky about.

For those of us who play predominantly pick up or tournament games, it's not as simple as just ignoring the bits of the game you don't like if you actually want to get in any games at all.

If gamers don't buy and play the new W40k rules, than GW would have to correct the situation to keep their gamers hooked on W40k.

Which is presumably why we have 7th edition coming out 2 years after 6th.

So... yeah, about that.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 ZultanQ wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Honestly, I do believe that wagamers are worse than football (soccer) fans when it comes to overreacting to little or no information and a whole load of supposition.

The WD scan states verbatim that you can literally take an army of riptides. If you feel that throwing in the towel is an "overreaction" to that, then I envy you for your Zen mastery.

Actually, "verbatim", it says 4 Riptides and a bunch of Broadsides.

"Verbatim" it says all his Riptides (last count 4)