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mercury14 wrote:
Are Court of the Archon units still only takeable when you run an archon?

I just picked up a pair of Sslyths, a pair of Medusae, and a Clawed Fiend out of the case at my FLGS. The Fiend was $8.00 fully painted and based with an excellent paint job so I couldn't pass it up. The store clerk said it's been on the shelf for years

Are there still caps to the number of beasts in a unit? Still max of one Fiend per BM?

Yes you need an archon to take an archon court

No you can now mix and match any court members together. No need to have the Urgurl or Lhamian if you dont want

No there is now no limit on the number of beasts. 12 Clawed fiends is now an option, although at Ld5, you might want to put in 1 beastmaster

mercury14 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
No caps on anything. Run whatever you like in a beast unit.

Fiendpack FTW?

If that's what you want. I think a Razorpack would be hilarious myself.

mercury14 wrote:

ryuken87 wrote:
Looking at the codex I think I can certainly get better value overall than I did with the last, but it doesn't feel like it's been brought up to date with 7th edition. Where is the Ignores Cover, Skyfire, etc. that is so prevalent in the rest of the game?

I feel our HQ choices are quite frankly, terrible. Urien is maybe ok but beyond that I'm sticking a Blaster on my Archon and that's it.

RE Wyches they needed some kind of buff to justify 10 ppm, whether it be 4++ vs Overwatch, Rending attacks just something. Compare to Ork Boyz at 6 ppm and you realise they aren't good value.

The strength of DE HQs is that they can kill stuff and they're cheap. It doesn't look like that changed. I'm a fan of running a Succubus with minimal upgrades and using the points for more units.

I really don't think they are that cheap for what they do, neither are they that great at killing stuff. The Succubus went up 10 points for reasons unfathomable, the Archon can't get an AP2 melee weapon. Other codexes have cheap HQs which are much more effective, for example:
- Autarch with a Fusion Gun on a jetbike for 95 points is way better than anything we have (doesn't even get used much 'cos Farseers).
- Khorne Herald on a Juggernaut with an Axe of Khorne for 110 is better than anything we have (and who even takes that?).
- Rune priest on a bike for 80 is better than anything we have.

I really feel that the HQ slot is a tax for this codex.

ryuken87 wrote:

mercury14 wrote:

ryuken87 wrote:
Looking at the codex I think I can certainly get better value overall than I did with the last, but it doesn't feel like it's been brought up to date with 7th edition. Where is the Ignores Cover, Skyfire, etc. that is so prevalent in the rest of the game?

I feel our HQ choices are quite frankly, terrible. Urien is maybe ok but beyond that I'm sticking a Blaster on my Archon and that's it.

RE Wyches they needed some kind of buff to justify 10 ppm, whether it be 4++ vs Overwatch, Rending attacks just something. Compare to Ork Boyz at 6 ppm and you realise they aren't good value.

The strength of DE HQs is that they can kill stuff and they're cheap. It doesn't look like that changed. I'm a fan of running a Succubus with minimal upgrades and using the points for more units.

I really don't think they are that cheap for what they do, neither are they that great at killing stuff. The Succubus went up 10 points for reasons unfathomable, the Archon can't get an AP2 melee weapon. Other codexes have cheap HQs which are much more effective, for example:
- Autarch with a Fusion Gun on a jetbike for 95 points is way better than anything we have (doesn't even get used much 'cos Farseers).
- Khorne Herald on a Juggernaut with an Axe of Khorne for 110 is better than anything we have (and who even takes that?).
- Rune priest on a bike for 80 is better than anything we have.

I really feel that the HQ slot is a tax for this codex.

I started a thread in the tactics section about this very issue.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617508.page#7249642

I think urien will be popular, and perhaps a WWP Archon with a blaster. Not even sure you go for the shadowfield


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

mercury14 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
No caps on anything. Run whatever you like in a beast unit.

Fiendpack FTW?

If that's what you want. I think a Razorpack would be hilarious myself.

Enough fiends to make the unit T5 would be nice.

They have speed over grotesques, but never become fearless or FNP

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Wyches are comparably a lot better against the thunder hammer terminators, as they pay a lot of points for their thunderhammers and shields which are of no use against wyches, where the broadsides get to the same end result (ok tehy don't ignore the fnp) by their fists alone and use the points on the weapons that they can use for overwatch (and to blast the wyches from the table starting from a distance of 30").

Edit: You actually need 28,7 wych attacks to make a single wound to a 2+ save t4 ws3 model. When the same model with strenght 5 (wounding on 2+ and leaving fnp) needs 7,3 attacks.

The distance would be covered pretty quickly in a Raider. All things being equal, the sides would kill the Raider, get assaulted by ~8 Wyches after Overwatch, and the girls would win CC after about 4 or 5 rounds.


.

Your dreaming bud. High Yield Bsides will average 4-5 s7 wounds with drowns and another 2 from SMS. That will render the wyches useless, and ignores the support fire. All while assuming they won't use other units to majke the assault impossible anyway. You know that bubble wrap tactic every tau player and their grandmother uses for good reason?

yeah,
What's the pts of the beast master and what's his equipment choices?
Is this a way to repurpose hellions?

running squads of 10 beastmasters?

Panic...

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
What's the pts of the beast master and what's his equipment choices?
Is this a way to repurpose hellions?

running squads of 10 beastmasters?

Panic...

you could, but hellions get a few advantages over beastmasters for their points

+1 strength
combat drugs
hit and run
jump infatnry instead of beasts

for 3ppm

mercury14 wrote:
Are Court of the Archon units still only takeable when you run an archon?

I think this is up for debate. Nothing explicitly forbids taking them as your HQ without an Archon. This argument is made here: http://www.3plusplus.net/2014/10/salvaging-dark-eldar/

The Court, however, has some interesting shenanigans- it says that one can be included as a slotless choice alongside an Archon, but it has no particular text forbidding it from being taken as your required HQ unit;

Pretty bummed about the changes to the HQ.

I was on my way out of 40k anyway. If anything could have kept me in, the DE release would have been it.

Oh well. I still like the background and models, maybe I'll try a Kill Team league or something.

Maybe one day GW will release a real skirmish game set in the 40k universe.

Why did they get rid of the finecast Archon when he's on the codex cover?

 Red Viper wrote:
Pretty bummed about the changes to the HQ.

I was on my way out of 40k anyway. If anything could have kept me in, the DE release would have been it.

Oh well. I still like the background and models, maybe I'll try a Kill Team league or something.

Maybe one day GW will release a real skirmish game set in the 40k universe.

Not going to tell you what to do, but the DE HQ's never really been that great.

But I feel the book is fine and the Coven brings a lot more to the Table for options with DE, with both the Books I feel many more units are playable, better and gives a lot more options.

 Exergy wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
What's the pts of the beast master and what's his equipment choices?
Is this a way to repurpose hellions?

running squads of 10 beastmasters?

Panic...

you could, but hellions get a few advantages over beastmasters for their points


a shooting weapon
+1 strength
combat drugs
hit and run
jump infatnry instead of beasts

for 3ppm

So beastmasters lost their splinter pods? One more thing that's not wysiwyg anymore to the list then

Oh and beasts are better unti type than jump infantry.

 jamopower wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
What's the pts of the beast master and what's his equipment choices?
Is this a way to repurpose hellions?

running squads of 10 beastmasters?

Panic...

you could, but hellions get a few advantages over beastmasters for their points


a shooting weapon
+1 strength
combat drugs
hit and run
jump infatnry instead of beasts

for 3ppm

So beastmasters lost their splinter pods? One more thing that's not wysiwyg anymore to the list then

Oh and beasts are better unti type than jump infantry.

checked, I was wrong, they keep the splinter pod.

So if you want a shooting unit, 12 beastmasters >> 9 Hellions

Pretty optimistic about the new book. It seems exponentially more fun than the previous incarnation of adding the Baron, a Beastpack, and five Warriors into an Eldar army.

 Exergy wrote:

 jamopower wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Panic wrote:
yeah,
What's the pts of the beast master and what's his equipment choices?
Is this a way to repurpose hellions?

running squads of 10 beastmasters?

Panic...

you could, but hellions get a few advantages over beastmasters for their points


a shooting weapon
+1 strength
combat drugs
hit and run
jump infatnry instead of beasts

for 3ppm

So beastmasters lost their splinter pods? One more thing that's not wysiwyg anymore to the list then

Oh and beasts are better unti type than jump infantry.

checked, I was wrong, they keep the splinter pod.

So if you want a shooting unit, 12 beastmasters >> 9 Hellions

You really want to charge something with the hellions?

 Amishprn86 wrote:


Not going to tell you what to do, but the DE HQ's never really been that great.

.

Archon in 3rd ed was an unholy terror to most other HQs.

 Souleater wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:


Not going to tell you what to do, but the DE HQ's never really been that great.

.

Archon in 3rd ed was an unholy terror to most other HQs.

yeah that was a ton of fun. Up until 6th, an archon was a pretty good duelist


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JGrand wrote:
Pretty optimistic about the new book. It seems exponentially more fun than the previous incarnation of adding the Baron, a Beastpack, and five Warriors into an Eldar army.

different, not sure if it will be more fun once things get boiled down

So what's the news now that people have the codex on how Raiders and Venoms deep strike, anything special or do they straight up Deep Strike.

Also the formation of 6 F attack, what's up with that.

What do you mean what's up with that?

Chad Warden wrote:
Why did they get rid of the finecast Archon when he's on the codex cover?

Because there's an ugly new plastic one they won't sell otherwise. That said he still seems to be on the US website, though the old succubus is apparently gone so no idea if that'll last.

I like the succubus model, a lot more action compared to the last one...though the 'Eavy Metal version looks like she has make-up painted on and I'm not sure if that really makes sense. The archon is terrible in my opinion. The old model was awfully static and they had a good opportunity to fix that this time around, but they made one that was somehow worse. I also don't like the bare head with no option for a helmet, or any options at all for that matter. I assume both are compatible with the infantry kits but there's only so much you can do with that model to differentiate it, and for a plastic model that's just a huge waste in my opinion. The sculpt itself is alright and I actually kinda like the slightly more ornate armor that he's wearing, but it's such a boring pose.

I did pick up a voidraven today, since I counted all my spare change last week and found out I was sitting on $77 this whole time, so I thought "feth it". Codex sounds awful and I'm naturally put off by the idea of paying $50 for a downgrade so I didn't get it. Honestly I think I'd get that painting guide before the codex, sounds like something I'll get more use out of. Anyone have a copy of that by the way, and if so do you think it's a neat thing to have or is it useless?

So over here, for both the day one DLC and the codex, games workshop is only charging $176 (not including shipping) for the two codex books direct from the online store! I mean, how good is that? What a bargain, I definitely would love to fork out that much just so that I can no longer play my Wyches, Reavers, Hellions and Beastpack.



If they are going to charge such massive amounts, they should stop popular units just to promote the concept of people switching their armies around. For that price, the focus should be on balance. Its incredible.

The new PFP mechanic is differnet, but not clearly better. turn 1 wyches have virtually no way to get FNP. Before they had 2. A 1/6 chance of getting it from the start of the game via combat drugs, or by adding a haemi. I am not sure how much the pain token cost, 2 points, 3 points, 5 points. Having in around was great at times, you could sacrifise him for overwatch, play LOS schenagins, carry a liquifier, and provide damage with a venom blade.

For a large squad, it was definitly worth getting the haemi first thing, for preventing damage turn 1 and 2. The new PFP mechanic really helps MSU squads, that were unlikely to ever get a pain token, at the expense of larger more decked out squads. Combat wyches worked best more decked out, so I think the new PFP is worse for them.

Everything you are discussing costs additional points. Now all you have to do to get them FNP before they can be shot at is hold them in reserve. This is even better if you are going second.

getting reroll to wound, which was by far their most powerful drug.

By far? Give me a break. It was very very slightly better then +1 S or +1 A or +1 WS and didn't stack with one of their weapons. "By far" is an absurd overstatement.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

There is also a 50% chance the sides will go first, and kill the raider so far away that the wyches will never make it to the sides.

Raiders can move 36" in one turn and Misslesides can shoot a maximum of 36" while moving. Why would any DE players allow you to shoot their raider? They would just start it off 36.1" away from the closest side.

Covens is a Supplement?


...Does the base Codex still make Wracks troops if you take a Haemonculus as HQ? Or is that only in the Coven supplement?

Hollismason wrote:
So what's the news now that people have the codex on how Raiders and Venoms deep strike, anything special or do they straight up Deep Strike.

Also the formation of 6 F attack, what's up with that.

Venoms and Raiders have deepstrike standard.

The detachment lets you take 6 fast slots

I have the dex and answering questions over here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/617407.page#7250597

 Sidstyler wrote:

I like the succubus model, a lot more action compared to the last one...though the 'Eavy Metal version looks like she has make-up painted on and I'm not sure if that really makes sense. The archon is terrible in my opinion. The old model was awfully static and they had a good opportunity to fix that this time around, but they made one that was somehow worse. I also don't like the bare head with no option for a helmet, or any options at all for that matter. I assume both are compatible with the infantry kits but there's only so much you can do with that model to differentiate it, and for a plastic model that's just a huge waste in my opinion. The sculpt itself is alright and I actually kinda like the slightly more ornate armor that he's wearing, but it's such a boring pose.

I don't mind static models as such. Actually I applaud on principle on static models nowadays, because often GW has just put out of tons of overly dynamic models and it gets real tiresome fast. Having said that, new Archon is 'meh' quality - the biggest problem is the legs. Their position is totally unconnected to his upper body: it actually looks like it was kitbashed combining upper and lower body from models with totally different poses.

I think the pose would be great if his legs were bit apart and overall stance was slightly more aggressive, hip thrusted forward etc. Now, he looks like a timid old man who's scared about the horrible weapons he holds. He's a goddamn ARCHON. Last thing he should look is timid.

At rat bot- nothing makes whacks troops. Even in the coven codex the FO chart is different with 6 HQ, 8 elite, and 4 heavy. This means a full coven list has non objective secured.

And yes the beast master still has splinter pod.

 RatBot wrote:
Covens is a Supplement?


...Does the base Codex still make Wracks troops if you take a Haemonculus as HQ? Or is that only in the Coven supplement?

Nope.

Basically GW is splinting up the content as much as possible. Really what started to piss me off about the dark eldar codex was all the full page model pictures in the middle of the unit section because they needed filler.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 RatBot wrote:
Covens is a Supplement?


...Does the base Codex still make Wracks troops if you take a Haemonculus as HQ? Or is that only in the Coven supplement?

Nope.

Basically GW is splinting up the content as much as possible. Really what started to piss me off about the dark eldar codex was all the full page model pictures in the middle of the unit section because they needed filler.

Not at all surprised. I'll admit I found the possibility of new Dark Eldar tempting, but thankfully I'll pass on this release, as usual.

 godswildcard wrote:
What models make good grotesques?

GW makes a grotesque model. You should buy and use the official models. Also be sure to assemble them in the official way (see the pictures on the box or the official website http://www.games-workshop.com if you are unsure). If enough people do not buy the official model, who knows what will happen? GW may decide to start axing rules for the units that they do make models for too.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
What models make good grotesques?

GW makes a grotesque model. You should buy and use the official models. Also be sure to assemble them in the official way (see the pictures on the box or the official website http://www.games-workshop.com if you are unsure). If enough people do not buy the official model, who knows what will happen? GW may decide to start axing rules for the units that they do make models for too.

You forgot to mention he should use the official glue to assemble the official model...