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Anyway, this was the section I went back to look at, where they in their very first KS claimed to have experience with producing miniatures. Considering the switching of sculpting media and the apparent confusion over the need to make masters and whatnot, this is sounding pretty arrogant, eh?

We have all worked with miniature manufacturers and printers in the past, for several decades, in fact, so we are well aware of the types of issues that may arise and we have been diligent in our pre-production process to ensure that their will be no delays in meeting all of our goals from our team. If there are any delays, for any reason, we will immediately inform all patrons, and make certain everyone is happy with the final outcome.

That being said, we are certain that we have all of our bases covered. We have been at this very long time.

Oh puke. Those are going to need much more than extra toes and a polish. They just took the crude sculpey 'armatures', stuck a thin, tight layer of wax over them, and prodded them with a sculpting tool for a bit. If it's not obvious to backers that these people have no idea what they're doing (despite the facepalming bit that Trodax just quoted, and the constant distracting flim-flam of castilene and d-limolene)... I dunno.

For one thing... that rhino (Elasmotherium? Coelodonta?)... Did they give it a ceratopsian-style head crest? They didn't realise that the raised rear of a rhino's skull is backed up by an awful lot of muscle?

Sorry, I just need to post one more quote, because this one is pure gold. From the FAQ of the Ice Age Mammals:

We are here to provide unrivalled quality and we are here to entertain.

Seems like they are actually doing what they set out to do.

Took me a second to get that, Trodax... well done

They're certainly entertaining and I don't think any professional miniatures company would drop their quality so much as to "rival" ADW...

Just LOOK at that fething monkey. Sweet mother of God. WTF are they thinking? Are they not even the slightest bit embarrassed? Bloody hell...

I know they're not "finished", but no amount of polishing that turd and drizzling lemon juice over it is going to make it appealing.

I really don't know if this is a scam or a bunch of ex-scammers trying to be legit, but whatever the feth it is, it's bloody hilarious and has brought new definition to the term "failboat".

It has to be a wind-up. Surely there is no way anyone could look at those miniatures and think that all they need is a final 'polish'... They barely qualify as armatures as they currently sit.

What is amazing about their updates is those five fans who always like whatever adw throws on their faces.

 Goblini wrote:
What is amazing about their updates is those five fans who always like whatever adw throws on their faces.

They are either pretend accounts from the creators, or just people trying to protect their investment. I guess some people just hope they receive anything. Even if it is malformed lumps of clay.

I love how they are foreshadowing the delays. It went from "we will finish everything over the weekend" to the latest from Lars:

"Lars] Finishing the sculpt tomorrow (Sunday). As mentioned. d-Limonene scheduled for last week of September."

So, that will probably have to dry for a few days, then the batteries in the camera will have died, the dog will have eaten the homework. And what do you want to bet the next Kickstarter will have started?

Kajamo wrote:
I love how they are foreshadowing the delays. It went from "we will finish everything over the weekend" to the latest from Lars:

"Lars] Finishing the sculpt tomorrow (Sunday). As mentioned. d-Limonene scheduled for last week of September."

So, that will probably have to dry for a few days, then the batteries in the camera will have died, the dog will have eaten the homework. And what do you want to bet the next Kickstarter will have started?

yeah, seriously i am anticipating on what will be their next excuse for delay or bad sculpts.
They already used these excuses:
-Bad hires including sculptors stealing, handing in bad sculpts
-UPS or Fedex
-Size issue
-Sculpey
-Delay on castilene due to delivery guy's emergency
-Unproductive comments from backers
-Dental emergency
-Out of batteries x2

Am I missing any?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alex C wrote:
They're certainly entertaining and I don't think any professional miniatures company would drop their quality so much as to "rival" ADW...

Just LOOK at that fething monkey. Sweet mother of God. WTF are they thinking? Are they not even the slightest bit embarrassed? Bloody hell...

I know they're not "finished", but no amount of polishing that turd and drizzling lemon juice over it is going to make it appealing.

I really don't know if this is a scam or a bunch of ex-scammers trying to be legit, but whatever the feth it is, it's bloody hilarious and has brought new definition to the term "failboat".

Alex C, you never fail at making me laugh

I'm going to go with "Read a really good book, spent time trying to figure out how the Roman Empire could have been saved."

Followed quickly by "Trying to build functioning Time Machine to see if recently developed theories would work."

I don't understand their latest update...

"And: of course, there will be texture on most of the models. Please refer to the GW horse models re: smooth finish.

http://spoonybardiche.blogspot.ca/2012/11/horse-comparisons.html"

Those horses only have texture in the manes and tails, or in the saddle detail. Some of them don't even have mane/tail detail...

So, what they're saying, is that their models actually WON'T have texture?

on the subject of delays, I estimate something going wrong with the silicon molds. Just seems to be another way to delay =P Have something go wrong with that step, perhaps even ruining the masters

oh lordy, my eyes hurt from this >.< https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinaandrewswalker/28mm-miniature-sea-monsters-dungeon-terrain-and-bi/posts/992876

Simply disgusting, I feel nauseous looking at those maggot and waterbug.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Somebody should create Kickstarter fail blog.

the big 'maggot' makes me think they're trying to rip off the Tremor Graboids

 Goblini wrote:
Somebody should create Kickstarter fail blog.

http://kickfailure.com/

I don't see ADW there, so drop the blog owner a line!

A new elephant-thing is up on the Ice Age Mammals. Really churning those turds out now!

 Goblini wrote:
yeah, seriously i am anticipating on what will be their next excuse for delay or bad sculpts.
They already used these excuses:
-Bad hires including sculptors stealing, handing in bad sculpts
-UPS or Fedex
-Size issue
-Sculpey
-Delay on castilene due to delivery guy's emergency
-Unproductive comments from backers
-Dental emergency
-Out of batteries x2

Am I missing any?

I think you covered it pretty well. There was potentially a new one in the making mentioned in the Sea Beasts comments today; they accidentally sent the survey out, for which Kickstarter only gives you one shot as far as I've understood it. I foresee substantial delays when people now will need to email their selections in...

 Goblini wrote:
Alex C, you never fail at making me laugh

Agreed, this piece had me cramping up pretty good!

Oh, perhaps i forgot to add
-Anti feminist gamers
-Other miniature companies called 'creapers' bashing them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ced1106 wrote:

 Goblini wrote:
Somebody should create Kickstarter fail blog.

http://kickfailure.com/

I don't see ADW there, so drop the blog owner a line!

I wanna upload their update photos on Imgur to hear what general public think about them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I do, will post a link here

 Sirithiliel wrote:
oh lordy, my eyes hurt from this >.< https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinaandrewswalker/28mm-miniature-sea-monsters-dungeon-terrain-and-bi/posts/992876

1. Place them in the freezer for an hour.
2. Clean up any burrs or artifacts either with a razor or a heated tool.
3. Rub them with pan[t]yhose and a solvent.
4. ???
5. Profit!

Aside from the bizarre pantyhose comment, I find it weird and telling (as if we need more telling signs) that they're announcing all these minor steps in the process. Like they're trying to remember what to do next as much as (or more than) keeping the backers reassured and on side. Whereas a pro sculptor would probably just... do it.

... a maggot with a tongue that will eventually become the giant creature.

The tongue becomes the giant creature? What giant creature?

I have to admit I once sculpted something that looked a lot like those maggots.

But they were snakes.

In plasticene.

When I was four.

 Vermis wrote:

Aside from the bizarre pantyhose comment, I find it weird and telling (as if we need more telling signs) that they're announcing all these minor steps in the process. Like they're trying to remember what to do next as much as (or more than) keeping the backers reassured and on side. Whereas a pro sculptor would probably just... do it..

It's not unusual for a sculptor to show a WIP sculpt and list what still needs to be done to it in order to allay concerns from people thinking it's further along than it actually is.

It's a little more unusual for a sculptor to show roughly fleshed out armatures and claim that they only need 'polishing' in order to become finished pieces.

 Trodax wrote:
A new elephant-thing is up on the Ice Age Mammals. Really churning those turds out now!

 Goblini wrote:
yeah, seriously i am anticipating on what will be their next excuse for delay or bad sculpts.
They already used these excuses:
-Bad hires including sculptors stealing, handing in bad sculpts
-UPS or Fedex
-Size issue
-Sculpey
-Delay on castilene due to delivery guy's emergency
-Unproductive comments from backers
-Dental emergency
-Out of batteries x2

Am I missing any?

I think you covered it pretty well. There was potentially a new one in the making mentioned in the Sea Beasts comments today; they accidentally sent the survey out, for which Kickstarter only gives you one shot as far as I've understood it. I foresee substantial delays when people now will need to email their selections in...

I think you might mean "accidentally"

It is impossible to 'accidentally' send it out, with the number of steps involved.

 insaniak wrote:
It's not unusual for a sculptor to show a WIP sculpt and list what still needs to be done to it in order to allay concerns from people thinking it's further along than it actually is.

I've done it myself. They still seem to go into an unusual level of moment-by-moment detail, though. "We have to put these in the freezer, guys. It's going to take a whole hour, so I'm afraid you're gonna hafta wait a bit for the next update..."

It's a little more unusual for a sculptor to show roughly fleshed out armatures and claim that they only need 'polishing' in order to become finished pieces.

Yarp!

That's just because the internet wasn't around in Michelangelo's days...he kept dragging around that big block of marble saying it only needs a little be of polishing to become a masterpiece...

This is really a minor thing, but I noticed that Lars (or whoever it is) used Canadian Google when posting a link in the comment section of the Sea Monsters yesterday. That's not damning in itself of course (unless you consider any connection to Canada to be tainted ), but it just made me try to think back. Have we seen any evidence contradicting the idea that what we're dealing with is a lone guy in an apartment somewhere in Canada, equipped with a computer, some clay and a box of props (a couple of books, wooden horse etc), rather than a big, highly experienced company located in a posh NYC office?

I just can't remember any instant where we have seen clear evidence that they have actually spent any money on this (other than perhaps buying those two boxes of Castilene). Sure, they've talked lots about their great casting facilities, but that's just it. Talked. When the Ice Age Mammals was running, they had some photos of sculpts from a decently talented sculptor, but as far as I've heard, rumor has it he or they were never paid for their services (most likely ADW never had those sculpts in hand of course, just the pictures, that's why they had to be "scrapped" due to scale issues and yaddayaddayadda). After those, every WIP posted has just been lumps of clay that could have been smudged together by anyone. They've said that they now have two new sculptors on hire, but have so far not shown any work from them (at least it looks to me like everything so far is probably done by the same person, despite them saying that they were going to "pump the team on caffeine in order to get everything done in a jiffy"). They are going to print T-shirts for their Ice Age Mammals campaign, but we haven't seen those either of course.

I should perhaps mention that I managed to get in contact with one of their former freelance artists, as we discussed earlier in this thread. A very nice guy, we've been chatting over the weekend, but it didn't add much either way. He was never paid, but that was part of the deal so it wasn't a scam (he worked on the KS campaigns that were cancelled, and was to receive payment only if they got funded). He had also thought the company a bit strange, and wondered why nothing could be found online concerning their supposedly very impressive achievments from the past.

We now know that the sculpts will be pretty terrible, that is quite plain to see. But even given that, I really highly doubt that they will be casting these and deliver them to backers. Given how many freebies they crammed into both their funded campaigns (hey, that's what got them funded, right?), it'll just have to cost them so much in materials and shipping fees. I'm also reminded that they have slammed that big "EU friendly" sticker on all their campaigns, but have never mentioned what it entails (usually, setting up a deal for EU friendly delivery is kind of a big deal for KS creators). I know they've been saying that they're running this as a loss leader in order to get established and build a reputation, but come on; the dude below is not something that will build a solid reputation. I just find it far, far more likely that they're just stringing people along.

OK, I'm hiding this behind spoiler tags as there could be children or elderly citizens with weak hearts watching.

Are throws two holes in it's chest suppose to be nipples?

 Lockark wrote:
Are throws two holes in it's chest suppose to be nipples?

Only God knows that.

 Trodax wrote:
I know they've been saying that they're running this as a loss leader in order to get established and build a reputation, but come on; the dude below is not something that will build a solid reputation. I just find it far, far more likely that they're just stringing people along.

OK, I'm hiding this behind spoiler tags as there could be children or elderly citizens with weak hearts watching.

Spoiler:

I have to admit, I have not been following this very closely, but surely the 'sculpt' in the spoiler pictures is just you joking around right? Taking 5-10 minutes with your kid's PlayDoh to make fun of the KS, right?

I mean really, there is no way they showed that as even a WIP towards fulfilling the KS.

That is horrid.

Nope, that's the images from the update they posted a few days ago.

Cringe-worthy, isn't it? Tempted to sculpt myself a Elasmotherium. Bet I can do better than that, despite being a beginner sculptor

 Sirithiliel wrote:
Nope, that's the images from the update they posted a few days ago.

Cringe-worthy, isn't it? Tempted to sculpt myself a Elasmotherium. Bet I can do better than that, despite being a beginner sculptor

Wow. I am so glad I didn't pledge for either of these KS projects. That is just garbage.

Reminds me of a piss poor copy of this guy:

 Trodax wrote:
This is really a minor thing, but I noticed that Lars (or whoever it is) used Canadian Google when posting a link in the comment section of the Sea Monsters yesterday. That's not damning in itself of course (unless you consider any connection to Canada to be tainted ), but it just made me try to think back. Have we seen any evidence contradicting the idea that what we're dealing with is a lone guy in an apartment somewhere in Canada, equipped with a computer, some clay and a box of props (a couple of books, wooden horse etc), rather than a big, highly experienced company located in a posh NYC office?

I just can't remember any instant where we have seen clear evidence that they have actually spent any money on this (other than perhaps buying those two boxes of Castilene). Sure, they've talked lots about their great casting facilities, but that's just it. Talked. When the Ice Age Mammals was running, they had some photos of sculpts from a decently talented sculptor, but as far as I've heard, rumor has it he or they were never paid for their services (most likely ADW never had those sculpts in hand of course, just the pictures, that's why they had to be "scrapped" due to scale issues and yaddayaddayadda). After those, every WIP posted has just been lumps of clay that could have been smudged together by anyone. They've said that they now have two new sculptors on hire, but have so far not shown any work from them (at least it looks to me like everything so far is probably done by the same person, despite them saying that they were going to "pump the team on caffeine in order to get everything done in a jiffy"). They are going to print T-shirts for their Ice Age Mammals campaign, but we haven't seen those either of course.

I should perhaps mention that I managed to get in contact with one of their former freelance artists, as we discussed earlier in this thread. A very nice guy, we've been chatting over the weekend, but it didn't add much either way. He was never paid, but that was part of the deal so it wasn't a scam (he worked on the KS campaigns that were cancelled, and was to receive payment only if they got funded). He had also thought the company a bit strange, and wondered why nothing could be found online concerning their supposedly very impressive achievments from the past.

We now know that the sculpts will be pretty terrible, that is quite plain to see. But even given that, I really highly doubt that they will be casting these and deliver them to backers. Given how many freebies they crammed into both their funded campaigns (hey, that's what got them funded, right?), it'll just have to cost them so much in materials and shipping fees. I'm also reminded that they have slammed that big "EU friendly" sticker on all their campaigns, but have never mentioned what it entails (usually, setting up a deal for EU friendly delivery is kind of a big deal for KS creators). I know they've been saying that they're running this as a loss leader in order to get established and build a reputation, but come on; the dude below is not something that will build a solid reputation.

Thank you for contacting an artist Todax. Doggerland and IAM had some good looking 2D concept art from various artists. After Bog launched, only concept art that is visible were the gnomes by Andrea Sfiligoi and 2D art that were previously shown in IAM KS and adw website. And Sea Monster KS has no 2D art beside google images. This tells me that artists were no longer there when Bog KS launched then Andrea also left.
So, Lars is in Canada? He also described himself a tall swede blond pony tail. I guess not.