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I am not clear what you are saying. Are the fantasy Sisters of Tillaerium (sp?) going to be resin instead of plastic now?

Also, how are you reaching the conclusion that people are not interested in female Paladins? Just curious what research you used.

I would suggest just saving them for their own campaign - the demand is not lacking, but a development process to match what people are looking for is needed (most notably, 2-handed guns!).

Since they're far from unlocking, it hopefully wouldn't effect this campaign adversely, and would give you a much better return in the long run! You could even do it as a follow up campaign right after this one, and allow backers from this campaign to select those models if they're willing to wait a bit (to avoid bailouts here).

Switching to resin would also risk backers leaving because the price point won't be suitable for mass armies, so a follow-up campaign after adjusting the renders to be 2-handed would be the best bet, I think! I've seen other companies do this quite successfully when stretch goals weren't reached - but it's only worth doing if you adjust the design like many people posted last page (to have them be 2-handed on All guns). That's where the huge demand is

Wait, what?

Sisters of Faith will be resin now?

The comments clarify that they're suggesting doing the 'extra' bits in resin but the main bodies will be plastic (since those are shared). Here's the proposed SG map:

-45K SG with all the additional bits cast in resin
-50K SG we tool weaponry (hammers) and the rest in resin
-55K SG we tool cloth tabards and the rest in resin
-60K SG we tool everything in plastic.
-65K SG we double the content in the boxes for the paladins.

I'm out. I don't want hybrid kits. And to be quite frank, messing around with bits and bobs in different materials just smacks of desperation and it gives me cold feet. Maybe I'm being irrational...

Best of luck though, I hope they turn out great and that they will be HIPS, in which case I'll buy retail (unless GW actually makes them by that stage).

Yeah at this point I'm kind of unclear. I was thinking about backing but now I'm probably going to wait. If everything shakes out by the last 48 hrs I might look at it again then.

The wolf sisters are still cool minis, still worth buying, but I'm not likely to up my pledge until I know what is plastic and what isn't...so, during the pledge manager or next KS campaign?

The Shieldmaidens were great minis. The wolf sisters will probably be great minis, too. Even better if they come with enough spare weapons to help a sister (shieldmaiden) out.


It's just a shame the Paladins are getting treated like afterthoughts, because they would have been my greater love.
Paragon 'Til Death, yo.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I am not clear what you are saying. Are the fantasy Sisters of Tillaerium (sp?) going to be resin instead of plastic now?

Not exactly. Unless the 60K SG gets reached, we are proposing a hybrid kit in the meanwhile at 45K. The closer we get to the 60K target the more bits will be tooled in plastic instead of restic.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Also, how are you reaching the conclusion that people are not interested in female Paladins? Just curious what research you used.

Yeah, the progress could be better, we were quite sure that female paladins would hit the mark as all our surveys (emails, personal messages on Facebook, on Kickstarter etc) illustrated that "Yes, if the price is right I'd want that". Apparently the demand is lower than projected.

@Nostromodamus
Yeah, we too are way more fond of a "pure" plastic kit (i.e. without hybrid parts) but it's about numbers and we are trying to bring something new to the market. Hopefully this will pull us little by little through and eventually reach the 60K SG (and even 65K, why not?...) so everyone will be super happy all the same :-)

Anyway, update coming up late tonight. I'd like to repeat that this doesn't change the 60K and 65K SG marks, it simply adds more to the road to get to them. Seems till now that backers are OK with that from the comment section at least, we'll wait to see the reaction after the update (#10).

From the kickstarter comments, the current plan is still al Plastic release for both the Fantasy sisters and Scifi sisters at $60,000 with the Scifi sisters going from 10 to 20 models at $65,000.

What the change they are proposing is that because the funding has stalled a bit there will be a release of the sisters in resin (or hybrid plasic/resin) at $45,000 with extra bits added on at various stretch goals... like heads and weapons and what not... If/Once the funding reaching $60,000 the resin bits will change to a full plastic kit... But if the funding does not reach $60,000 at least there will still be a sisters kit available for both scifi and fantasy albeit in resin.

I admit that I voted for Sisters back when they did the poll, and am not really interested in the Wolf girls... but this does seem to be at least a good compromise... Not sure how far I would be in for a lot of resin figures... but will say their resin is better than Raging Heroes...

This is the idea: we need the additional funds in order to tool the plastics. As you have understood from this lay-out and images so far, we will be using weaponry (some of it at least), bodies and some of the heads. We will need to tool cloth tabards, cloaks, pauldrons and some heads.
Instead of jumping on the 60K SG, we propose the following NEW stretch goal map

-45K SG with all the additional bits cast in resin
-50K SG we tool weaponry (hammers) and the rest in resin
-55K SG we tool cloth tabards and the rest in resin
-60K SG we tool everything in plastic.
-65K SG we double the content in the boxes for the paladins.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:
Yeah, the progress could be better, we were quite sure that female paladins would hit the mark as all our surveys (emails, personal messages on Facebook, on Kickstarter etc) illustrated that "Yes, if the price is right I'd want that". Apparently the demand is lower than projected.

Did you pass on the feedback many people posted last page about the guns needing to be 2-handed? Demand is definitely not low for counts-as Sisters of Battle. The problem is, your paladins currently don't match that. That's obviously what they're intended to be used as, so they need to match the equipment of the models they're representing!

The other problem is that they feel just tacked on to the end of this campaign. I gave pretty thorough, respectful feedback about that above... please pass it on, I think you're going to be in danger going the hybrid route and would have better success with a follow-on campaign, instead.

Just trying to be helpful, hopefully it's getting passed on to the decision makers at your company as they consider their options going forward! They really need to carefully consider both of the above...

Would the plastic sci fi wolf sister arms work on the plastic faith sisters' bodies? Why not make a sci fi arms sprue they can both use ?

Actually, I,m confused because it looks like the wolf kits have a sprue for bodies and pauldrons that are genre-neutral and then a sprue of fantasy arms and weapons and a sprue of sci fi arms and weapons. If this is what you are doing, wouldn't the sci fi arms sprue also apply to the sisters of faith kit?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Would the plastic sci fi wolf sister arms work on the plastic faith sisters' bodies? Why not make a sci fi arms sprue they can both use ?
Actually, I,m confused because it looks like the wolf kits have a sprue for bodies and pauldrons that are genre-neutral and then a sprue of fantasy arms and weapons and a sprue of sci fi arms and weapons. If this is what you are doing, wouldn't the sci fi arms sprue also apply to the sisters of faith kit?

If I understand you correctly, the sci-fi weaponry is going to be the same plastic for both Sisters of Wolves and Sisters of Faith.

@RiTides
Fair enough.
Edit: Yes, I said so to Angelos and he read the thread here. I will ask him to post on this on tonight's update, he will be the one writing it.

I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're expecting people to pledge for things that aren't unlocked yet in order to unlock them? That's not typically how KS pledgers operate, in my experience. People up their pledges for things that get unlocked, they don't pledge and hope.

If a backer sees a 20 model box as a good value, but a 10 model box as not, they're not going to pledge (typically) till it's a 20 model box. You can argue that by doing it that way they're shooting themselves in the foot, but that doesn't change it.

For example, I'll be happy to add $100+ to my pledge once the spider-bras are unlocked with the alternate parts, but I'm not going to do so until then because, if they don't, and I don't stay on top of it and drop my pledge, I end up with a bunch of models I don't want cause I can't get that money back after the fact.

skarsol wrote:
I'm not sure, but it sounds like you're expecting people to pledge for things that aren't unlocked yet in order to unlock them? That's not typically how KS pledgers operate, in my experience. People up their pledges for things that get unlocked, they don't pledge and hope.

If a backer sees a 20 model box as a good value, but a 10 model box as not, they're not going to pledge (typically) till it's a 20 model box. You can argue that by doing it that way they're shooting themselves in the foot, but that doesn't change it.

For example, I'll be happy to add $100+ to my pledge once the spider-bras are unlocked with the alternate parts, but I'm not going to do so until then because, if they don't, and I don't stay on top of it and drop my pledge, I end up with a bunch of models I don't want cause I can't get that money back after the fact.

Both are usually true... Like in the reaper Kickstarter. You Pledge X initially.... But then they show a stretchgoal at $1,000,000 for a big dragon.... for $20... You can (and are encouraged) to up your pledge to help that stretch goal unlock... but your right, if it doesn't then you have to change your pledge down if you don't see any other place to spend that money... or you are stuck and have to choose something else... If people only waitied to pledge for stuff that is unlocked, then nothing would even get unlocked...

I am not sure on this though. Maybe they should stick with the Wolf sisters and then do a separate Kickstarter for the sisters next week or next month...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Update

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-warmaidens-and-dragonbreds/posts/1999960

"Hello everyone!

We have been thinking of how to speed the progress since it's not as fast as we'd like it to be. We think that we have come up with a good compromise that should work well for everyone! :-)
[Thankfully we have given this project more time than we usually dedicate to our crowdfunding projects (three weeks instead of the usual two) so we are still on great track to unlock a whole lot more]

New Stretch Goal Order

We have prepared new graphics to illustrate better, please have a look and I'll explain below.

This stretch goal order ensures both good viability of the project (remember that here at Shieldwolf Miniatures we cast in-house, therefore all this will be under our complete control) and shortens the gaps in order to help make this kit a reality! :-)
This doesn't mean that intermediate add-ons can't be inserted along the way on the road to the 60K goal. On the contrary, it's a certainty.

Weaponry Alterations

It has been discussed in the comment section and some forums we monitor but it is proper to write it down in an update (to make sure people see this!).

We will be redesigning the weaponry, mainly the arm guard has caused issues -we would hate for *that* to be a deal-breaker, so we are very willing to change it.

The beauty of crowdfunding is the interaction with the very people who help make this happen, we are very happy that you feel part of this -because, well, you are! :-D
All this is Work in Progress and changes can be made, this is about being open and honest with each and everyone of you, so if you had missed this change regarding the weaponry please take note. :-)

We are very interested to know what you think of this, kindly dedicate us a minute of your time to write down a comment regarding this update.

Thank you.

(Angelos on behalf of) the Shieldwolf Team."

skarsol wrote:
... People up their pledges for things that get unlocked, they don't pledge and hope.

If a backer sees a 20 model box as a good value, but a 10 model box as not, they're not going to pledge (typically) till it's a 20 model box...

That's the boat I'm in.
Boxes of 10 sci-fi not-Sisters I'll order =zero
Boxes of 20 I'll order = lots, plus tanks too.
I can't pledge right now because nothing you're offering now is what I want. Won't pledge on a maybe.

PourSpelur wrote:
... Won't pledge on a maybe.

I get that. I am only interested in the Sisters, so if they don't reach funding I am out... But Kickstarter in general is a maybe... I have been lucky and only had 2 real failures... (Torn Armor) and (Fairy Tale Games as a later backer)... but Kicktarter is to help things get made, not to buy stuff already available...

10 VS 20 is an issue... Kick Traq has this projected at around $100,000 last time I checked... If that is any indication then the Plastic sets should be unlocked and the 20 model boxes should be unlocked... I am still hopeful.

Edit: I messed up on the quote... Sorry, cant figure out how to change to correct person...

PourSpelur wrote:
I can't pledge right now because nothing you're offering now is what I want. Won't pledge on a maybe.

That is usually the boat I'm in, except I don't count the pledge final until the last day. I don't have an issue pledging on something based on what I'd like. If everything is fine, unlocked, and still suits me then no changes need to happen... but if it isn't, then I cancel or lower my pledge. When the KS closes is when I consider the pledge closed and final. The main reason I tend to pledge early is so I can get the updates and know where I stand by the last day.

True that. After reading the above posts and being forced to do the right thing (Pledge now on a maybe, adjust or remove pledge on last day if maybe's become coulda-beens) it raises a point.
How many people are doing the same?
How much money are you leaving on the table by not offering what people want now?
Is it better to make all the goodies available at 65k in the hopes you get there so it'll blow up, or is it better to make them available sooner so people don't pass completely?

Fixed the quote tags in a few posts above, sorry if I was editing at the same time as you Dark Severance

 Smokestack wrote:

10 VS 20 is an issue... Kick Traq has this projected at around $100,000 last time I checked... If that is any indication then the Plastic sets should be unlocked and the 20 model boxes should be unlocked... I am still hopeful.

10 vs 20 is a HUGE issue. Shieldwolf (and everyone else, like Mantic) is competing with with &Ntt=start+collecting&qty=com.gamesworkshop.endeca.EndecaUserContext%403d8c70b5&view=all]these and this stuff right now for our money, except we can have one this afternoon (or in a couple of weeks if you mail order like I do) and the other in 12+ months.

Like I said, for $5k - which is an amount so small that I could come up with it myself from saving for a couple of months - you're shorting your backers and more importantly yourselves because you're offering half as many as you are of the fantasy figures. I don't know how many people are put off by that, but it doesn't seem uncommon. It's a fething TERRIBLE choice. One of the worst that you could have made.

Asking for final feedback - open for a week or more - give people a few days to mull over their thoughts, and hopefully a weekend if you want quality feedback - 2-3 weeks before launch would have been the time and place to do so, not for 24 hours without telling anyone outside of (presumably) the remnants of the superfans and others still active in the comments section of a campaign that finished months ago who will yes-man 90% of ideas.


I personally don't think the nun-sisters will fund at this point, and if the campaign relaunches, I'd certainly do the following from the outset:

Offer 20 per box - no fething about with saving a few cents on sprue shots.
1-2 proper, finished, posed renders. One in an open, sword and pistol/carbine pose and the other in the classic "2-handed, rifle across chest" pose. I've linked to photos from my own blog for an entirely unrelated game simply as posing examples.
Proper guns. I'd suggest using an image of the FN-SCAR alongside the carbine used by the models to make it very clear where the inspiration for Shieldwolf's unique weapon came from.

Get feedback from multiple sources before relaunching. Have private discussions with individuals who have further strong ideas on how to avoid pitfalls.
AVOID USING THE fething KICKSTARTER COMMENTS AS A SOLE SOURCE OF FEEDBACK.

KS-update message to ALL previous campaign backers - 1 month BEFORE launching and then again THE MOMENT the campaign actually launches - especially if you have some sort of incentive-freebies.


A couple of important things to remember -
You basically have 4 campaigns in one here - fantasy and sci-fi wolves, fantasy and sci-fi nuns.
Shieldwolf has about 400-odd regular KS backers, give or take. Most of those people have already backed or are on the fence. That's where the current $38k came from. Those people have already committed their money. If you want to double it, you need an additional 400-odd people, because most people can't simply afford to double their pledges, and if someone has already backed for 40 or 80 sisters, doubling their pledge means if the campaign doesn't fund the $60/65k (or look like it will) leaves them in the position of needing to pull half of their pledge or double their existing models. I buy a lot of models, but I'll certainly never need 160 of pretty much the same fantasy wolf sisters, and I could use that theoretical $200 in a lot of other ways.

You can leverage your existing backers once to open up extras, but at that point you need to attract new ones with value that is at that point unlocked in the campaign. If I were a new backer looking to get some sisters that have nothing to do with wolves, with 14 days to go and almost $30k to get to where it's a worthwhile box , I'd hit "remind me" and come back in 2 weeks. I certainly wouldn't drop down $200 in the hope that it funds what I actually want.

I could continue pointing out errors in the not-sisters and the campaign as a whole that could (should!) have been addressed before the campaign, but my god, I'm so tired of doing it. I'm ill at the moment, so I'm literally both sick and tired so have little energy to keep doing so here.

I'm one of those people who are interested in the KS, but haven't backed yet. I like the tanks you're offering, particularly with the religious doors you pictured on your website. I'd be up for 6-12, depending on how my funds look in the next two weeks. But I want the religious doors, not the Norse. (would be willing to buy the doors I want separately though).

If the not-sisters don't get unlocked, would your company be selling, or at least be considering selling vehicle upgrade packs at or before KS delivery?

 Mmmpi wrote:
I'm one of those people who are interested in the KS, but haven't backed yet. I like the tanks you're offering, particularly with the religious doors you pictured on your website. I'd be up for 6-12, depending on how my funds look in the next two weeks. But I want the religious doors, not the Norse. (would be willing to buy the doors I want separately though).

If the not-sisters don't get unlocked, would your company be selling, or at least be considering selling vehicle upgrade packs at or before KS delivery?

We will see how sales work at retail for our science fiction range, we are rookies in this market and need numbers to make assessments.

Nothing illustrated in the campaign is ever going to sale before KS delivery. We have promised this in the past, we promise this now, we will promise this in the future. Why you may ask. It is financially unfavourable to us and we miss out of money, but ethically it's the right thing to do. It's not always about money but paid trust must be repaid (sorry for my English, I don't know any synonym for the verb pay).

I just realized I had a typo.

I meant to say at or just after KS delivery.

Thank you for clarifying and elaborating though. I appreciate the amount of responses you've been giving here.

I would certainly pledge for the Paladins.

 Mmmpi wrote:
I just realized I had a typo.

I meant to say at or just after KS delivery.

Thank you for clarifying and elaborating though. I appreciate the amount of responses you've been giving here.

Yes, everything from this Kickstarter (besides the KS exclusives) will be made available for retail after we have delivered to our backers.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
I just realized I had a typo.

I meant to say at or just after KS delivery.

Thank you for clarifying and elaborating though. I appreciate the amount of responses you've been giving here.

Yes, everything from this Kickstarter (besides the KS exclusives) will be made available for retail after we have delivered to our backers.

Great! What I was asking though is if the stuff that doesn't get unlocked will eventually be made and sold. Probably not right away, but eventually?

@Mmmpi

Lol! :-)
Dragon Wardens plastic kit for example cannot be made since financially we can't cover the costs for the molds.
Master of Wolves and other similar models we'll eventually create through the retail sales we make, it's just a much slower process than having them funded before hand.
For fantasy we have a good idea what the speed will be; Sci-fi instead remains a mystery as we don't have any data and we'll have to see (i.e. for the Grand Fenris miniature we know give or take how many we'll be selling each year, for a Grand Snotra on the other hand we have not the slightest clue!)

I hate that the Arachno-things keep getting tied to essentially unrelated Kickstarters. Just make those separately! (Or in their own project.)

skarsol wrote:
I hate that the Arachno-things keep getting tied to essentially unrelated Kickstarters. Just make those separately! (Or in their own project.)

But they asked their best backers, and they all agreed that spider-centauresses are the most requested allies of sci-fi wolf-sisters with boxing glove guns. Are you saying their research is inaccurate?

I know you're joking, Bob, but no need to be mean!

For myself, I am also after the Arachnomaidens, but because they're just an add-on it's not as efficient to pledge for them here. I do want to pick them up (I owe them to Werhkind, for when we thought they'd unlock in the prior campaign!) but they aren't necessarily a very good fit here.

Also just wanted to say I've been PM'ing with SW and am hopeful that they could make a few tweaks - it's really up to the owner Angelos, and I'd hate to see a bit of "shooting the messenger" here with their Dakka account.