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 Deadshot wrote:
Tau only live 40 years or so. They don't have time to train effectively as Marines or even grizzled IG Vets do.
Tau have poor depth perception and ae near sighted so rely on technology to fill in the gaps, unlike Marines who have enhanced eyesight AND technological targeting arrays, or even the regular eyesight of humans.
Tau's superior firepower comes from the range and strength of the ordnance over the Imperium's standard weaponry. Ok, compared to a bolter its not much (+6" range and +1 strength) but compared to a Lasgun its fantastic (+6" range, +2 Strength and AP5)

Tau seem to live somewhere in the range of 60-70 years, 80 being about the max (Puretide who, while injured, would hve ad the best care availible to him). Tau also train from birth* (unlike IG), need less sleep and can survive without sleep longer than humans, mature sooner, and do not age the same as humans (they stay more near their prime over their lives, possibly one of the reasons for a shorted lifespan). They are not short-sighted AFAIK, although they do have slower focusing times than humans. Interesting fact, they can see a greater rand of EMR than we can.

*Not literally, but the schooling would all be focused on tactics and teamwork at a very young age

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Tau only live 40 years or so. They don't have time to train effectively as Marines or even grizzled IG Vets do.
Tau have poor depth perception and ae near sighted so rely on technology to fill in the gaps, unlike Marines who have enhanced eyesight AND technological targeting arrays, or even the regular eyesight of humans.
Tau's superior firepower comes from the range and strength of the ordnance over the Imperium's standard weaponry. Ok, compared to a bolter its not much (+6" range and +1 strength) but compared to a Lasgun its fantastic (+6" range, +2 Strength and AP5)

People always bring up this 40 year lifespan thing but I've never seen it in any of the Tau codices. According to the most recent Tau Codex, Puretide was born in 651 M41 and was described as elderly in 731 M41. So he was described as elderly when he was 80 years old. So either he was a mutant who lived twice as long as any other Tau, spent an entire lifetime in stasis over the course of his career , or the Tau have a lifespan which is the equivalent of a human.

What about my lord, Commander Shas'O Vior'la Shovah Kaius Mont'yr? He is, if I may say so, already past his highness's prime.

lliu wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Tau only live 40 years or so. They don't have time to train effectively as Marines or even grizzled IG Vets do.
Tau have poor depth perception and ae near sighted so rely on technology to fill in the gaps, unlike Marines who have enhanced eyesight AND technological targeting arrays, or even the regular eyesight of humans.
Tau's superior firepower comes from the range and strength of the ordnance over the Imperium's standard weaponry. Ok, compared to a bolter its not much (+6" range and +1 strength) but compared to a Lasgun its fantastic (+6" range, +2 Strength and AP5)

People always bring up this 40 year lifespan thing but I've never seen it in any of the Tau codices. According to the most recent Tau Codex, Puretide was born in 651 M41 and was described as elderly in 731 M41. So he was described as elderly when he was 80 years old. So either he was a mutant who lived twice as long as any other Tau, spent an entire lifetime in stasis over the course of his career , or the Tau have a lifespan which is the equivalent of a human.

What about my lord, Commander Shas'O Vior'la Shovah Kaius Mont'yr? He is, if I may say so, already past his highness's prime.

He has a sword that drains life essence from those it kills (the dawn blade) making him functionally immortal (especially when you consider some of the things he has killed with it).

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Tau only live 40 years or so. They don't have time to train effectively as Marines or even grizzled IG Vets do.
Tau have poor depth perception and ae near sighted so rely on technology to fill in the gaps, unlike Marines who have enhanced eyesight AND technological targeting arrays, or even the regular eyesight of humans.
Tau's superior firepower comes from the range and strength of the ordnance over the Imperium's standard weaponry. Ok, compared to a bolter its not much (+6" range and +1 strength) but compared to a Lasgun its fantastic (+6" range, +2 Strength and AP5)

People always bring up this 40 year lifespan thing but I've never seen it in any of the Tau codices. According to the most recent Tau Codex, Puretide was born in 651 M41 and was described as elderly in 731 M41. So he was described as elderly when he was 80 years old. So either he was a mutant who lived twice as long as any other Tau, spent an entire lifetime in stasis over the course of his career , or the Tau have a lifespan which is the equivalent of a human.

Farsight does, however, posses a relic blade from another race that increases his life span with every enemy killed using it, so that all depends on when he found 'The Dawn Blade'. Thus his BS of 5 obviously reflects his age and experience, as well as his battlesuit-enhanced ability, which the average Tau don't/can't have. As a Tau player, I believe it would ruin the balance if our basic troops were made BS4. I do however think AP5 is a bit stupid for a weapon of this technological level. Burst cannons should in theory shred everything, but they're only AP5; same with the normal pulse rifles.

Iirc tau guyz get 'frozen' for the time they're travelling across space. So, the statement that some tau lived 80 years doesn't contradict the statement that they can't live past 40. His organism can technically be 40 years old even though he's around for 80 years - just spent half his life frozen.

Get rid of markerlights and we'll talk about BS4.

Convictus wrote:
Get rid of markerlights and we'll talk about BS4.

I suggest that marker lights be used for extending range.

Hunam0001 wrote:
I thought Tau where farsighted?

laff'd

But really, fluff intricacies aside lets look at it this way:
BS1: "Where do the bullets go?"
BS2: This reflects not having a grasp of things like sights or how to properly hold a firearm... or just not having the patience to aim properly
BS3: Average. You hit with half of your shots under ideal conditions which is as much as most warriors of the 41st Millennium, or any Millennium can hope for.
BS4: Well trained or sporting something that elevates them to an unnatural level. For example Aspect Warriors, Imperial Guard Veterans, and Space Marines.
BS5: Not just well trained but highly experienced. This isn't just *knowing* how to shoot well but being able to do it in a myriad of conditions.

And it just moves up from there following a similar trend. By amplifying or exaggerating the ability of the unit in question things can get pretty off the chain just because of the setting. But Firewarriors are, in many ways, just normal people/things. Granted they have some pretty fabulous technology both in terms of armament as well as optical and command and communication technology but the Tau themselves are just as squishy and normal as most basic guardsmen.

For fire warriors BS3 makes perfect sense.
But for suit pilots? I'd expect BS4 honestly...

Most suits will require a price hike though. (all except stealth) not to mention to fact two of them have unbalanced weapons where some options are clearly superior and undercosted, while others are simply inferior and at times overcosted (seriusly HRR and PR choices for broadsides are horrible for the cost...)

Yeah piolots, or at lest shas'vre should be BS 4.

fire warriors should still be at BS3, but i do think that the suits should be BS4 just because these suits are manned by veterans AND have super technology to help with everything.

LordDavenport wrote:
Mark lighters.

Also, Tau are good at shooting. BS3 is compitent, standard shooting. BS 4 is superhuman skill. Above is the realm of master marksman.

Tau already have Marklighters.

the problem with that idea IG veterans exist. They should just have BS3 and +1 attack like every other veteran in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brennonjw wrote:
fire warriors should still be at BS3, but i do think that the suits should be BS4 just because these suits are manned by veterans AND have super technology to help with everything.

but dont eldar also have super technology to help with everything and arent eldar naturally better sighted than humans?

If anything basic tau should be BS2.

never mind BS4.. I personally always thought they should be T2 .. not because I am a hater or anything but because it would make them really unique (and give my storm guardians something to do ^^)

You would have to drop their points cost though, and it doesn't make any sense. They are not grots.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Yeah piolots, or at lest shas'vre should be BS 4.

I agree. That's what the post meant.

 Exergy wrote:
but dont eldar also have super technology to help with everything and arent eldar naturally better sighted than humans?

Yes, minus the super-aiming technology, and they're all BS4.

...

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
but dont eldar also have super technology to help with everything and arent eldar naturally better sighted than humans?

Yes, minus the super-aiming technology, and they're all BS4.

...

Guardians are BS3 arent they?

 Peregrine wrote:

Also, Tau are NOT fish. The fish-like names given to Tau vehicles and equipment are Imperial designations, much like the NATO names given to Soviet equipment. They have absolutely nothing to do with Tau evolution or culture.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Markerlights are supposed to be used in conjunction to pretty much focus fire whatever you want. 2 Markerlights, and you have 30 inch, S5 guns hitting on 2s. They don't need higher BS.

The problem with this is it turns the codex into Codex: Magic Laser Pointers instead of Codex: Tau. Instead of giving Tau poor stats and using markerlight spam to make up for it they should have good stats and treat markerlights as a nice bonus for the most important shots.

So, Tyranids shouldn't have to worry about Synapse, but instead just get a much nicer bonus if they decided to be with Synapse range? I mean, we don't want it to become Codex: Synapse, do we?

On a lighter note, I've seen competitive Tau field very few Markerlights and still make it work. You don't have to spam them for them to be effective, but they are meant to be used to overall buff the army. Yes, Tau are good shooters, but not worth of BS4, especially with 30" S5 guns.

 krodarklorr wrote:


So, Tyranids shouldn't have to worry about Synapse, but instead just get a much nicer bonus if they decided to be with Synapse range? I mean, we don't want it to become Codex: Synapse, do we?

Yes. I'd have written it so that Tyranids had to shoot/run towards/assault the nearest enemy unit if they were out of synapse range, depending on what type they were.

So keeping them in Synapse range assures you retain control but them being removed from synapse doesn't instantly mean they self-destruct. Means that if your gaunts have got up to within 12" of the enemy line and then their synapse is broken they won't sit there and eat each other when there is other food standing right in front of them.

On the other hand it requires the opposing player to think about what to do after breaking synapse, rather than just sit back and watch the tyranids kill themselves. They can lure assaulty units away using fast units then focus on what's left etc.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


So, Tyranids shouldn't have to worry about Synapse, but instead just get a much nicer bonus if they decided to be with Synapse range? I mean, we don't want it to become Codex: Synapse, do we?

Yes. I'd have written it so that Tyranids had to shoot/run towards/assault the nearest enemy unit if they were out of synapse range, depending on what type they were.

So keeping them in Synapse range assures you retain control but them being removed from synapse doesn't instantly mean they self-destruct. Means that if your gaunts have got up to within 12" of the enemy line and then their synapse is broken they won't sit there and eat each other when there is other food standing right in front of them.

On the other hand it requires the opposing player to think about what to do after breaking synapse, rather than just sit back and watch the tyranids kill themselves. They can lure assaulty units away using fast units then focus on what's left etc.

I was more or less making a joke. I'm saying that Tyranids have low leadership mostly, and rely on synapse. He was saying that Tau have average BS, and he shouldn't have to rely on ML to make it better. I'm simply pointing out A. You don't have to and B. Other armies have similar things. It's a part of the game and apart of their fluff.

Point being, Tau don't need BS 4.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


So, Tyranids shouldn't have to worry about Synapse, but instead just get a much nicer bonus if they decided to be with Synapse range? I mean, we don't want it to become Codex: Synapse, do we?

Yes. I'd have written it so that Tyranids had to shoot/run towards/assault the nearest enemy unit if they were out of synapse range, depending on what type they were.

So keeping them in Synapse range assures you retain control but them being removed from synapse doesn't instantly mean they self-destruct. Means that if your gaunts have got up to within 12" of the enemy line and then their synapse is broken they won't sit there and eat each other when there is other food standing right in front of them.

On the other hand it requires the opposing player to think about what to do after breaking synapse, rather than just sit back and watch the tyranids kill themselves. They can lure assaulty units away using fast units then focus on what's left etc.

I was more or less making a joke. I'm saying that Tyranids have low leadership mostly, and rely on synapse. He was saying that Tau have average BS, and he shouldn't have to rely on ML to make it better. I'm simply pointing out A. You don't have to and B. Other armies have similar things. It's a part of the game and apart of their fluff.

Point being, Tau don't need BS 4.

However fluff-wise, I think battlesuits (or at least Shas'vre battlesuits) should be BS4. A Tau only gets into a battlesuit after 4 years of active service and passing a Trial by Fire, then after another 4 years and another Trial by Fire can become a Shas'vre. 4 years of service as a Shas'vre and a final Trial by Fire later they advance to commander status.

So battlesuits have quite a bit of experience, not to mention all the targeting technology built in, to fall back on when it comes to shooting.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


So, Tyranids shouldn't have to worry about Synapse, but instead just get a much nicer bonus if they decided to be with Synapse range? I mean, we don't want it to become Codex: Synapse, do we?

Yes. I'd have written it so that Tyranids had to shoot/run towards/assault the nearest enemy unit if they were out of synapse range, depending on what type they were.

So keeping them in Synapse range assures you retain control but them being removed from synapse doesn't instantly mean they self-destruct. Means that if your gaunts have got up to within 12" of the enemy line and then their synapse is broken they won't sit there and eat each other when there is other food standing right in front of them.

On the other hand it requires the opposing player to think about what to do after breaking synapse, rather than just sit back and watch the tyranids kill themselves. They can lure assaulty units away using fast units then focus on what's left etc.

I was more or less making a joke. I'm saying that Tyranids have low leadership mostly, and rely on synapse. He was saying that Tau have average BS, and he shouldn't have to rely on ML to make it better. I'm simply pointing out A. You don't have to and B. Other armies have similar things. It's a part of the game and apart of their fluff.

Point being, Tau don't need BS 4.

However fluff-wise, I think battlesuits (or at least Shas'vre battlesuits) should be BS4. A Tau only gets into a battlesuit after 4 years of active service and passing a Trial by Fire, then after another 4 years and another Trial by Fire can become a Shas'vre. 4 years of service as a Shas'vre and a final Trial by Fire later they advance to commander status.

So battlesuits have quite a bit of experience, not to mention all the targeting technology built in, to fall back on when it comes to shooting.

Well, that's why Commanders are BS5. >.< But, I think it would still come down to if anything, even just battlesuits had BS4, they would have to nerf Markerlights. They're already extremely useful and good.

Well that's simple, go back to how they were before.

So they can increase BS up to a maximum of BS5.

Each Markerlight hit can be used to reduce cover save by 1. So 2 lights reduces cover by 2, 3 by 3 etc.

Markerlights allow vehicles to fire a Seeker Missile at the target without the target needing to be the vehicles target.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Well that's simple, go back to how they were before.

So they can increase BS up to a maximum of BS5.

Each Markerlight hit can be used to reduce cover save by 1. So 2 lights reduces cover by 2, 3 by 3 etc.

Markerlights allow vehicles to fire a Seeker Missile at the target without the target needing to be the vehicles target.

I'm okay with everything you just said. I despise what ML are now.

A Tau individually is probably one of the worst species in 40k. They're physically weak and short sighted and alone would get stuffed by anything.

The reason a Tau Fire Warrior is so effective is because of the other Tau around him. This is demonstrated by things like marker lights and the supporting fire rule as well as their weapons.

Despite all being individually better, no other standard infantry (eg. guardsman, eldar guardians, etc.) are as well coordinated as the Tau and this is where their strength is.

This is why they have bad stats but their special rules make up for it and overall reflect them properly imo.

Taffy17 wrote:
A Tau individually is probably one of the worst species in 40k. They're physically weak and short sighted and alone would get stuffed by anything.

The reason a Tau Fire Warrior is so effective is because of the other Tau around him. This is demonstrated by things like marker lights and the supporting fire rule as well as their weapons.

Despite all being individually better, no other standard infantry (eg. guardsman, eldar guardians, etc.) are as well coordinated as the Tau and this is where their strength is.

This is why they have bad stats but their special rules make up for it and overall reflect them properly imo.

WHERE DOES THIS SHORTSIGHTEDNESS COME FROM!!!
The only thing I can find is that they have a slower focusing speed. AFAIK they are not physically weaker than humans, they just do not train for close combat. Please, can I have some sources?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
A Tau individually is probably one of the worst species in 40k. They're physically weak and short sighted and alone would get stuffed by anything.

The reason a Tau Fire Warrior is so effective is because of the other Tau around him. This is demonstrated by things like marker lights and the supporting fire rule as well as their weapons.

Despite all being individually better, no other standard infantry (eg. guardsman, eldar guardians, etc.) are as well coordinated as the Tau and this is where their strength is.

This is why they have bad stats but their special rules make up for it and overall reflect them properly imo.

WHERE DOES THIS SHORTSIGHTEDNESS COME FROM!!!
The only thing I can find is that they have a slower focusing speed. AFAIK they are not physically weaker than humans, they just do not train for close combat. Please, can I have some sources?

Ok I don't know what's wrong with Tau eye's. Everyone on here seems to be saying they're short sighted so I went with that, I've also heard that they have no depth perception or ability to judge distances which actually sounds better to me. This would mean if they threw a punch it would be more of a flail as they wouldn't be able to tell how far away the guy they're punching is. but I haven't read anything about this, I just assumed that because its so widely talked about it was true

Taffy17 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
A Tau individually is probably one of the worst species in 40k. They're physically weak and short sighted and alone would get stuffed by anything.

The reason a Tau Fire Warrior is so effective is because of the other Tau around him. This is demonstrated by things like marker lights and the supporting fire rule as well as their weapons.

Despite all being individually better, no other standard infantry (eg. guardsman, eldar guardians, etc.) are as well coordinated as the Tau and this is where their strength is.

This is why they have bad stats but their special rules make up for it and overall reflect them properly imo.

WHERE DOES THIS SHORTSIGHTEDNESS COME FROM!!!
The only thing I can find is that they have a slower focusing speed. AFAIK they are not physically weaker than humans, they just do not train for close combat. Please, can I have some sources?

Ok I don't know what's wrong with Tau eye's. Everyone on here seems to be saying they're short sighted so I went with that, I've also heard that they have no depth perception or ability to judge distances which actually sounds better to me. This would mean if they threw a punch it would be more of a flail as they wouldn't be able to tell how far away the guy they're punching is. but I haven't read anything about this, I just assumed that because its so widely talked about it was true

I believe it comes from the first Tau codex which said it took them longer to focus on distant objects than humans. This hasn't been repeated in either of the other two Tau codices.

The Fire Caste having no depth perception makes absolutely no sense as they are descended from the hunter-gatherer tribes on the T'au plains. Which also suggests that this slower focus time was not a hindrance in any way to their ability to hunt for food, so it wouldn't make a difference now.

 Exergy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
but dont eldar also have super technology to help with everything and arent eldar naturally better sighted than humans?

Yes, minus the super-aiming technology, and they're all BS4.

...

Guardians are BS3 arent they?

Nope.

The "soldiers only in emergencies, artists and chefs otherwise" are BS4.

In reference to the Eldar, I don't see how a chef could be BS 4, while someone with advanced war gear, and have trained all their life to be a warrior have BS 3.