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 gwarsh41 wrote:
Seems like GK are taking a few hits like SW and Orks did. I originally heard rumors that daemons would be stronger when it was GK vs daemons. Anything more of that surfaced yet?

Nope.

Inquisition took hits.

Pure GK went in several directions. PAGK generally got a little worse. Everything else is mostly better.

 ductvader wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Seems like GK are taking a few hits like SW and Orks did. I originally heard rumors that daemons would be stronger when it was GK vs daemons. Anything more of that surfaced yet?

Nope.

Inquisition took hits.

Pure GK went in several directions. PAGK generally got a little worse. Everything else is mostly better.

PAGK generally got A LOT worse don't kid yourself. Salvo psycannons and no psy bolts means Strikers and purifiers who shoot (most builds) suck now. Interceptors get a little better because of cheap incinerators and that's pretty much the only real buff to PAGK. (Cc purifiers got both nerfed and buffed so that's probably a draw there)

PAGK is still good at what it has always been meant for. Small squads to support terminators.

I don't get the complaints about PAGK.
For four points more you get a Marine with Storm Bolter, psychic powers, a Force weapon and Mindstrike Grenades.
My BA are crying in a corner right now.

But they do pale in comparison to Terminators. That's not hard though..
Troop Choice Terminators with all the GK-bonuses for 33 points each?

Kangodo wrote:
I don't get the complaints about PAGK.
For four points more you get a Marine with Storm Bolter, psychic powers, a Force weapon and Mindstrike Grenades.
My BA are crying in a corner right now.

But they do pale in comparison to Terminators. That's not hard though..
Troop Choice Terminators with all the GK-bonuses for 33 points each?

Because some feel if there is a better choice the other choice is now junk even if the are good.

People don't seem to be mentioning that the terminators can take a land raider as a dedicated transport. You could have OBSEC land raiders to your heart's content (or the points limit). 3 min squads of terminators with LRCs, 1 ML3 libby and 2 dreadknights is right about 1800 points (I calculated that with 200pts each for the dreadnights). Use the LR to get the termies to objectives or into melee and then just sit on objectives and shoot with the LRs. Regular land raiders might be best for two and a redeemer or crusader for the squad with the libby.

Might be fun to try.

That means you would have to skip on Gunships, I would take those with a Locator Beacon for GoI-trolling.
Normal Land-raiders are probably a good choice, but they have the downside of a limited transport-capability, especially if your models are bulky.
They have lascannons, and you lack long-range shooting from non-Vehicles.

But welcome to the Blood Angel-club!

Warmonger2757 wrote:
People don't seem to be mentioning that the terminators can take a land raider as a dedicated transport. You could have OBSEC land raiders to your heart's content (or the points limit). 3 min squads of terminators with LRCs, 1 ML3 libby and 2 dreadknights is right about 1800 points (I calculated that with 200pts each for the dreadnights). Use the LR to get the termies to objectives or into melee and then just sit on objectives and shoot with the LRs. Regular land raiders might be best for two and a redeemer or crusader for the squad with the libby.

Might be fun to try.

WATER WARRIOR!

 ductvader wrote:
PAGK is still good at what it has always been meant for. Small squads to support terminators.

Lol! Meant for? According to who?

The 5th edition codex would disagree with you there.

Anyway, it is obvious PAGK were nerfed quite a bit so that their far most common configurations from 5th are not even close to as good anymore. That's completely separate from terminators going down in price (which hurts PAGK even more).

Fluff, 3rd Edition, 4th Edition, and then you had 5th/6th Edition Codex Coteaz.

Just glad we're back to GKs.

Well, Strikes got a big nerf in the new edition.
Incinerator? How to get close?
Psylancer? Heavy weapon. Snap fire or stand and shoot for an already costly unit.
Psycannon? Salvo weapon.

Yea strikes did take a hit unfortunately, looks like go to Troops for GKS are Terms.

But thankfully I saved all the backpacks for my strikes to make a good amount of them into interceptors

It saddens me that strikes got hit like they did. I finished painting my 6 10 man stike squads with psycannons a couple of months ago. To make it even worse, I dont actually have any regular terminators at the moment lol.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Strikes got a big nerf in the new edition.
Incinerator? How to get close?
Psylancer? Heavy weapon. Snap fire or stand and shoot for an already costly unit.
Psycannon? Salvo weapon.

I expect if you still see strikes it will be in these configs

5 Man Strike Squad, Incinerator Las/plas razorback (or TL -las) -- 190 points. Good all a round TAC unit, adds long range shots the army lacks. Good option if going for a CAD vs Nemesis Strike Force
10 man strike squad, 2x Incinerator, rhino -- 255 Flexible due to DS option (can either DS the incinerators or keep them in rhino and use the 5 dopes to DS on maelstrom objectives)
5 man strike squad (meltabomb and/or Incinerator if points allow). -- The scout squad of GK. eg cheap mandatory troop to save points for other stuff.

I like the Razor option.

 l0k1 wrote:
It saddens me that strikes got hit like they did. I finished painting my 6 10 man stike squads with psycannons a couple of months ago. To make it even worse, I dont actually have any regular terminators at the moment lol.

Luckily I magnetized the backpacks so my 20 PAGKs can switch from strikers to interceptors. Unfortunately I did not magnetize the psycannons so I have 4 guys with 'less than optimal' weapons.

I'm debating on what psyker table to roll for the ML3 librarian when he's in a unit with paladins and draigo. Thinking about rolling 3 times on divination or telepathy for either forewarning or invisibility while using the 1 relic for an extra roll on sanctuary for a shot at either vortex or sanctuary. You lose the primaris for either table but i figured you'd get 1 spell you wouldn't mind trading for it.

Super Newb wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
It saddens me that strikes got hit like they did. I finished painting my 6 10 man stike squads with psycannons a couple of months ago. To make it even worse, I dont actually have any regular terminators at the moment lol.

Luckily I magnetized the backpacks so my 20 PAGKs can switch from strikers to interceptors. Unfortunately I did not magnetize the psycannons so I have 4 guys with 'less than optimal' weapons.

Between Purifiers, Strikes, and Interceptors I have 110 pagks I may tear the back packs off of a 10 man strike squad and make a 3rd 10 man interceptor squad. I'll also buy some of the 10 man boxes and just build all the guys with incinerators so I can switch weapons in and out. But first I'll have to strip my 9 ghost knights and get more basic terminators. Lol

Leave them painted as ghost knights and call them your paladins or something. Also you never know with GW -- you strip them and then thew'll release a Mordrak esque datasheet.

 l0k1 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
It saddens me that strikes got hit like they did. I finished painting my 6 10 man stike squads with psycannons a couple of months ago. To make it even worse, I dont actually have any regular terminators at the moment lol.

Luckily I magnetized the backpacks so my 20 PAGKs can switch from strikers to interceptors. Unfortunately I did not magnetize the psycannons so I have 4 guys with 'less than optimal' weapons.

Between Purifiers, Strikes, and Interceptors I have 110 pagks I may tear the back packs off of a 10 man strike squad and make a 3rd 10 man interceptor squad. I'll also buy some of the 10 man boxes and just build all the guys with incinerators so I can switch weapons in and out. But first I'll have to strip my 9 ghost knights and get more basic terminators. Lol

Not sure why you would try to strip the ghosts knights. One, it's a piece of plastic so it's not like there's a naked dude under there and B ) if it were possible why would you even want to field naked ghost dudes?

How important are PAGK for a Grey Knight-army?

I'm really not that interested in having two PA-armies, but I do play Blood Angels who don't really want to field Terminators.
So I'm thinking of picking up my 15 Termies and exchange their Fists for some Grey Knight-goodies.
Perhaps I could field 10 PAGK at max, but I wouldn't want any more than that.

It doesn't need to be that big, around the 1000 points.

Kangodo wrote:
How important are PAGK for a Grey Knight-army?

I'm really not that interested in having two PA-armies, but I do play Blood Angels who don't really want to field Terminators.
So I'm thinking of picking up my 15 Termies and exchange their Fists for some Grey Knight-goodies.
Perhaps I could field 10 PAGK at max, but I wouldn't want any more than that.

It doesn't need to be that big, around the 1000 points.

Two Dreadknights, 10 Interceptors, 10 Termies, 5 Termies, an HQ...that's somewhere between 1000 and 1500

Not super competitive...by any means, but give you a little of the initial stuff you want


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Strikes got a big nerf in the new edition.
Incinerator? How to get close?
Psylancer? Heavy weapon. Snap fire or stand and shoot for an already costly unit.
Psycannon? Salvo weapon.

Incinerator is going to mean a deepstriking five man squad with 1 or 2 incinerators. Psycannon/psilencer is either going to need a diversion to keep them alive for a turn or you just need to take advantage of the nemesis strike force and hide a bit. It's not the best, but we'll have some points to play around with due to decreased options as well. My strikes might just be 5 + incinerator + melta bomb and/or hammer

I'm looking at strikes with Halberds and maybe a meltabomb. Nothing much more. Deep strike in or ride in on a LR with 21 Str 7 ap 3 attacks on the charge.

DarthDiggler wrote:
I'm looking at strikes with Halberds and maybe a meltabomb. Nothing much more. Deep strike in or ride in on a LR with 21 Str 7 ap 3 attacks on the charge.

Purifiers could do this even better with 2 attacks each and ML 2.

Super Newb wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
It saddens me that strikes got hit like they did. I finished painting my 6 10 man stike squads with psycannons a couple of months ago. To make it even worse, I dont actually have any regular terminators at the moment lol.

Luckily I magnetized the backpacks so my 20 PAGKs can switch from strikers to interceptors. Unfortunately I did not magnetize the psycannons so I have 4 guys with 'less than optimal' weapons.

Between Purifiers, Strikes, and Interceptors I have 110 pagks I may tear the back packs off of a 10 man strike squad and make a 3rd 10 man interceptor squad. I'll also buy some of the 10 man boxes and just build all the guys with incinerators so I can switch weapons in and out. But first I'll have to strip my 9 ghost knights and get more basic terminators. Lol

Not sure why you would try to strip the ghosts knights. One, it's a piece of plastic so it's not like there's a naked dude under there and B ) if it were possible why would you even want to field naked ghost dudes?

I'm just anal about my guys matching and such lol.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Strikes got a big nerf in the new edition.
Incinerator? How to get close?
Psylancer? Heavy weapon. Snap fire or stand and shoot for an already costly unit.
Psycannon? Salvo weapon.

Getting GKSS in close with Incinerators is exactly why they have DS, to say nothing of their new FoC.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Strikes got a big nerf in the new edition.
Incinerator? How to get close?
Psylancer? Heavy weapon. Snap fire or stand and shoot for an already costly unit.
Psycannon? Salvo weapon.

at least the 3 weapon choices are different, have different pros and cons.

In the old codex, why take anything except Psycannons?

Zimko wrote:
Now that he actually has an attack profile, he can do damage to normal units on the turn he charges. Plus he's an independent character. What is the stipulation with Smash? Does he only get that against characters or does he always have AP 2?

Basically he has a choice of "attack mode" (gainst the Smash USR) and "defense mode" (re-rolls all saves).

If you choose "Defense mode," he will strike with 4, I6, WS8, S4, AP- attacks on the charge.

If you choose "Attack mode," he will strike with the above profile but gains AP2 on all attacks, or he can choose to swing a single attack at S8 AP2 and re-roll armour penetration.

The real clincher is that if he fights in a challenge, he gets BOTH modes. That's not bad at all.

DoW

GW is almost predictable, they know we used psycannons with the previous codex so what do you do with the new one? Make psycannons less viable so you will have to buy new models, cant blame them they are trying to make money.

I dont have the codex yet but according to the accurate information leaked we have some good builds. We still have str 10 all over the place with hammer head and thunder hammers. Some of our special characters automatically come with specific powers, which is always a plus.

 CKO wrote:
GW is almost predictable, they know we used psycannons with the previous codex so what do you do with the new one? Make psycannons less viable so you will have to buy new models, cant blame them they are trying to make money.

Of course that is predictable
If everyone uses the same model and option, that probably means it's too strong.