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tenebre wrote:

yes i did. Which is why i believe he is responding at all and the way in which he is responding as mentioned already.

@tenebre - while your actions and approach are commendable, the community is not the best source of advice.

I have been in similar situations where someone provided a service and failed to deliver on what we agreed to. Given the amount of money involved, the best thing I ever did was hire an attorney. I felt guilty about it beforehand, and very wise when the disputes were addresses quickly and without additional anxiety on my part.

These are ones I have dealt with in St Louis. They are in order from the most personal, lowest cost service, to the most sophisticated.

http://pawloskilaw.com
http://www.brownandcrouppen.com
http://www.thehammerlawfirm.com

Most law firms will at least discuss your case with you at no cost, and it never hurts to speak with someone and at least know what your options are. My guess is you are going to find out the remedies suggested by the painting service are way, way too complex and your situation is a lot simpler to resolve than you believe. Also, you might want to read whatever contract you have with the painting company carefully and get a legal opinion on it. Some large percentage of contracts from tiny service companies like this turn out to be partly / wholly unenforceable based on how they are written.

My heart goes out to you tho. This is not the sort of thing that should ever happen.

anyone out there know any attorneys who are dakka fans, or warhammer fans? They would probably jump on this with both feet


tenebre, im not an attorney , but . . .. i did sleep at a holiday inn last night!

This is inexcusable by BTP. The damning thing for me is at 14:19- the bull centaurs that are supposedly level 6? I think the video is fair and he says a lot complimentary things. However, there's simply too much detail on those great models that was purposely missed. I honestly believe Shawn wants to right this but he also needs to fix his quality control. Not painting obvious details is not cool for what was paid for these models.

The project that I completed with the was quite simple and arrives two-three weeks after it was due to me. When I called to get an update the week before they said it would be done...they told me they were trying "locate" my Limartes, 10x Jump DC, and 1 DC Dreadnought. I start throwing back I want my money and miniatures back once they found them. Whoever I was talking to said I was already to much into the process!?!?! Needless to say, when I did get my models those two weeks later they were in horrible condition. Paints just thrown on the models, no face paint for the marines, red thrown on things that didn't need red, etc Etc. I completed a before and after photo set when I was done "fixing" them and sent them those photos. A week later Shaun puts a video up explaining that not every project can go to plan and sometimes the projects are rushed due to low manning. Excuses I say...

@Tenebre....it is unfortunate that you had this experience. After watching both of your videos, you are clearly passionate about this hobby we all share. Good to know that you are playing 40k as well but I hope that you will return to Fantasy battle soon.

I understand the reasons why you are not satisfied with the work performed on your Chaos Dwarf army. That said, I do hope that you will use the army in games. It is a full FW Chaos Dwarf army. Even at bare resin, that is an army that should be seen and played with. As disappointed in the paint job as you are, not fielding the army for your enjoyment would be a shame. I am confident in saying that everyone that has posted in this thread would LOVE to get a game against that CD army...I know I would!

I look forward to seeing the Battle Reports on your YouTube channel.

On that note, if you are looking for ideas about what to film, showing off your 25k worth of Orks would be a great place to start!

I hope everything works out for you.

Thanks,
Tom

Been reading this with interest. I'm still not sure what to think about this. The sums of money involved are mind-boggling. But looking at it from the perspective of a painter, I'd want to make some money. Where I live, minimum wage is $7.50 an hour. I would not paint for that kind of money, there's easier ways to make a living IMO.

For a commission painter to make even a meager living, they'd have to be charging some decent money, which would be expensive for the client. For a commission painter working at blue table painting, with Shawn's overhead and all, man, you're almost flipping rat burgers at McDonalds for what he pays ($8/hr). That might even be a better job, as mickey D could afford to pay you overtime (speculatively) and perhaps benefits.

It just seems like it sucks either way. A commission painter is either working for bare minimum money to live off of, and a buyer is paying incredibly large amounts of money for work that they could probably do on their own if they invested the time into developing painting skills and a DIY mentality, which is what this hobby is all about IMO.

As a painter, I could never do this. It would anger and frustrate me trying to please someone for only a minor amount of cash paid to me for my time, when I know I could make more money spending my time at a real job.

I'm really sorry the OP got what he did, seems like he is very passionate about the army and the lore of them, and to get such a turd back after the cash cost.

There is a reason that I no longer paint for commission other than for friends.

It takes time - and unless you are willing to spend that time then the product will not be worth what you will need to charge in order to justify that time.

But one thing that must remain at the top is that when the customer tells you what he wants then you try to produce what he wants.

Step one is making a standard - and sending in the picture of that standard for the customer to see.

It sounds, here, that BTP made a standard, lost the person that painted to that standard, then changed the standard - without updating the information that they needed to send the client.

So it went from Blood & Gore to Lava Glow - with the later being something that could be done very quickly with an airbrush and some drybrushing.

Not what the customer ordered, nor what they had shown as the work in progress - and at its core, this makes an example of bait and switch.

At this point, court seems the best choice - this was an expensive project, and one that BTP has deliberately tried to cut corners on.

The Auld Grump

I've had two projects done by btp.
The first was a converted swarmlord level 6 I had them order the figures which slowed things down as the total length of the project was close to 9 months if I remember correctly. Communication was a little ruff also until they gave up having me email them and put me in direct contact with mason who did the conversion work and responded to any emails with in an hour or so. Honestly, once i was in direct contact with him it was pretty apparent the guy enjoys what he does and will bend over backwards to knock it out of the park for you.

I also just had a level 6 dimachaeron done by them which I ordered myself this time and sent in. The turn around was around a month which is much faster than I was expecting compared to last time. It came out amazing, up close you can see where the skin is stretched etc, the teal on the base work really looks good too, i'm very happy with it. You can pick up the model and eyeball it as close as you like and see new detail they added in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZRiA0FCgo

With that said, and shown in the link I will say there is a huge difference between what i received for level 6 work and what you received. I kind of feel as if they went overboard with osl and made almost all over your models a couple color gradient from black to red. It compares to painting the top half of a grey knight blue because he has a power weapon and not picking out any of the colors.

I hope the best for you, there is and obvious difference in what we received and considering how large your project was I feel like they should go the extra mile for you. It looks like it was a very large expense to have it painted.

Not impressed with that; it's reasonable tabletop, but I wouldn't display it. And I feel sick, why can't they hold the damn camera steady. What did they rush you for that?

winterdyne wrote:
Not impressed with that; it's reasonable tabletop, but I wouldn't display it. And I feel sick, why can't they hold the damn camera steady. What did they rush you for that?

To me it looks reasonably well painted, thou with the caveat that im saying this based on a 480p resolution video, which is not ideal. From what i have seen from them, their conversion are really good but their painting is essentially just a good 4 feet standard.

Whether that is good value for money, it comes down to the individual, some people might have the money to through at something like this, but not the time or the skills. Some (like my self) very much so have the skills and rather stretch the time required as long as needed. Thou i have no issues playing with a T100 army of empire men...

winterdyne wrote:
Not impressed with that; it's reasonable tabletop, but I wouldn't display it. And I feel sick, why can't they hold the damn camera steady. What did they rush you for that?

That's something I've noticed in every single video posted by BTP, the camera is always handheld and shaky, even when they're displaying the armies and models. For someone who claims to be a professional painting service, it seems very amateur. The least they could do is get a tripod for the camera and a decently lit area so film the models at, so you can see more than vague color schemes.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
Not impressed with that; it's reasonable tabletop, but I wouldn't display it. And I feel sick, why can't they hold the damn camera steady. What did they rush you for that?

That's something I've noticed in every single video posted by BTP, the camera is always handheld and shaky, even when they're displaying the armies and models. For someone who claims to be a professional painting service, it seems very amateur. The least they could do is get a tripod for the camera and a decently lit area so film the models at, so you can see more than vague color schemes.

I dont think it would be productive for them, most of their work seems a good 4 feet away standard, close up still shots would not work in their favor.

xxvaderxx wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
Not impressed with that; it's reasonable tabletop, but I wouldn't display it. And I feel sick, why can't they hold the damn camera steady. What did they rush you for that?

That's something I've noticed in every single video posted by BTP, the camera is always handheld and shaky, even when they're displaying the armies and models. For someone who claims to be a professional painting service, it seems very amateur. The least they could do is get a tripod for the camera and a decently lit area so film the models at, so you can see more than vague color schemes.

I dont think it would be productive for them, most of their work seems a good 4 feet away standard, close up still shots would not work in their favor.

I'm not even talking about close up, I'm talking about decently lit and in focus. But either way it seems rather like a strike against them if their level six, the highest they offer, looks bad in the conditions you would have on the table, let alone a display case.

 BrningHalo wrote:

On that note, if you are looking for ideas about what to film, showing off your 25k worth of Orks would be a great place to start!

Sure if you are interested! I will finally have them all assembled in about 3 more weeks. So ill make one then and post in the correct forum.

on the other subject -
All i can say is BTP hasn't budged "much" they upped the refund offer to 22% (from 20%) or send them back. Thats all that's on the table realistically. As With legal matters I can not discuss anything else until its final. Sorry guys i promise to inform what I know as i can.

tenebre,

one other possible avenue of thought that i had, then i am going to try and stop pestering this thread. i cant stop reading this thread because it is turning into a saga, and i think we all want to see it resolved favorably to you.

Did you consider filing a complaint / calling paypal ANYWAYS ? (even though it may/may not be past the refund window)

I have seen so many times that paypal sides with the unhappy customer NOT the vendor. You have a legitmate and tangible complaint that is backed up by evidence, a video well several videos, and several threads on very large public forums - also the circumstances of the delay - were out of your control - you didnt sit on the issue , THEY did.

Call them, they might put some serious heat on BTP if you present the case right along with all the documentation and evidence, and the videos etc. The way you have documented and bared the situation for the world to see is going to work in YOUR favor, not theirs. Also if you have the help of a lawyer to call paypal, i would think this would increase your chances even more perhaps?

If he has given it to a lawyer already, which it sounds like, you should not expect tenebre to do or say ANYTHING at this stage anymore, no more videos, no information to rating companies, paypal or whatever.

Anything he does can impair the success chance at court, so better avoid it.

The simple facts are very much in his favour and I am 1000% sure BTP will either go under or return the money asked for rather than going to court.

8.000 USD is not a small sum and totally worth fighting over. I asked a friend who is a lawyer and he said these kind of cases usually end in a settlement.

For example: In this case BTP could refund him his whole commission money, while they get to keep the miniatures for selling them.

That's hardly a settlement, since they are tenebre's miniatures.

As a professional painter I hate to see threads like this. It is hard enough to get clients that are willing to pay for what your time is worth without things like this happening. From what I have seen the Chaos Dwarf army this customer requested would not have been hard to make look good by most professional painters in a fairly short amount of time. The bulk of the army looks like it was done after the original deadline and the exceptions must have been done before it

I don't like the fact that BTP is blaming the client for the backlash they are getting for this project. All that was needed to prevent the video and thread was for BTP to actually work with the customer while the commission was in progress and not to wait till there is bad press to review the commission. It is not like it was 5 or so years ago where people had cash to spare and just wanted armies that were "Good Enough". There are Asian painting firms that would have done the same or better painting for about half the price and in that same time frame. Most gamers US choose a US painting service so they can get a fast turnaround and the ability to communicate with the painter. What is the point of going with a more expensive painting service if they are not willing to follow your instructions and can not meet the stated deadline. If you are a professional painting service you should be striving to give your clients a good experience and a little better quality then they are expecting.

 curran12 wrote:
That's hardly a settlement, since they are tenebre's miniatures.

And, being FW models, they're not exactly cheap to replace.

 Rotary wrote:
I've had two projects done by btp.
The first was a converted swarmlord level 6 I had them order the figures which slowed things down as the total length of the project was close to 9 months if I remember correctly. Communication was a little ruff also until they gave up having me email them and put me in direct contact with mason who did the conversion work and responded to any emails with in an hour or so. Honestly, once i was in direct contact with him it was pretty apparent the guy enjoys what he does and will bend over backwards to knock it out of the park for you.

I also just had a level 6 dimachaeron done by them which I ordered myself this time and sent in. The turn around was around a month which is much faster than I was expecting compared to last time. It came out amazing, up close you can see where the skin is stretched etc, the teal on the base work really looks good too, i'm very happy with it. You can pick up the model and eyeball it as close as you like and see new detail they added in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZRiA0FCgo

With that said, and shown in the link I will say there is a huge difference between what i received for level 6 work and what you received. I kind of feel as if they went overboard with osl and made almost all over your models a couple color gradient from black to red. It compares to painting the top half of a grey knight blue because he has a power weapon and not picking out any of the colors.

I hope the best for you, there is and obvious difference in what we received and considering how large your project was I feel like they should go the extra mile for you. It looks like it was a very large expense to have it painted.

Hm... Sorry but if that's a level six, supposedly their highest standard, I'm not impressed at all. It looks rather bland and one-dimensional, like most BTP work I've seen. Could be the camera work, poor lightning and constant shifting of angle/focus, but as far as I can see there's no real depth in the model - it looks like it could use some proper shading and several layers of detailed highlighting. The basing is ambitious but there's just something lacking when you look at the whole thing.

Actually this seems to be the general issue with BTP: they just have too much on their plate and so they have to rush unfinished projects out the door. Then they make all these videos showing off mediocre paintjobs and calling them awesome, as if the painting somehow would become great just because Shawn says it is.

Also, it's interesting how he kind of slams the camera in the face of the painter in this video, asking "what's your nickname here at BTP?" and the guy looks uncomfortable and goes "ehrm... I don't think I actually have one yet...?" Some serious cracks in the "friendly bunch of nice guys painting together" image right there.

 Acephale wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
I've had two projects done by btp.
The first was a converted swarmlord level 6 I had them order the figures which slowed things down as the total length of the project was close to 9 months if I remember correctly. Communication was a little ruff also until they gave up having me email them and put me in direct contact with mason who did the conversion work and responded to any emails with in an hour or so. Honestly, once i was in direct contact with him it was pretty apparent the guy enjoys what he does and will bend over backwards to knock it out of the park for you.

I also just had a level 6 dimachaeron done by them which I ordered myself this time and sent in. The turn around was around a month which is much faster than I was expecting compared to last time. It came out amazing, up close you can see where the skin is stretched etc, the teal on the base work really looks good too, i'm very happy with it. You can pick up the model and eyeball it as close as you like and see new detail they added in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZRiA0FCgo

With that said, and shown in the link I will say there is a huge difference between what i received for level 6 work and what you received. I kind of feel as if they went overboard with osl and made almost all over your models a couple color gradient from black to red. It compares to painting the top half of a grey knight blue because he has a power weapon and not picking out any of the colors.

I hope the best for you, there is and obvious difference in what we received and considering how large your project was I feel like they should go the extra mile for you. It looks like it was a very large expense to have it painted.

Hm... Sorry but if that's a level six, supposedly their highest standard, I'm not impressed at all. It looks rather bland and one-dimensional, like most BTP work I've seen. Could be the camera work, poor lightning and constant shifting of angle/focus, but as far as I can see there's no real depth in the model - it looks like it could use some proper shading and several layers of detailed highlighting. The basing is ambitious but there's just something lacking when you look at the whole thing.

Actually this seems to be the general issue with BTP: they just have too much on their plate and so they have to rush unfinished projects out the door. Then they make all these videos showing off mediocre paintjobs and calling them awesome, as if the painting somehow would become great just because Shawn says it is.

Also, it's interesting how he kind of slams the camera in the face of the painter in this video, asking "what's your nickname here at BTP?" and the guy looks uncomfortable and goes "ehrm... I don't think I actually have one yet...?" Some serious cracks in the "friendly bunch of nice guys painting together" image right there.

I will admit I laughed when Shawn said "another high quality, high definition, very polished video". That video was awful, the camera was never stationary long enough for you to focus properly and let you see it.

But the video doesn't really show it to know how good it is.

Hm... Sorry but if that's a level six, supposedly their highest standard, I'm not impressed at all.

It's the highest they offer, they don't claim it's the highest they can do, just the highest they will sell. Even though it's the highest they offer, it's not a patch on several of the commission painters we have here on Dakka, it's still bargain basement stuff. Winterdyne will paint something much more epic for you... but to be fair, winterdyne will probably also charge you significantly more to do it

Because he spends way more time than them on that piece

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It's the highest they offer, they don't claim it's the highest they can do, just the highest they will sell. Even though it's the highest they offer, it's not a patch on several of the commission painters we have here on Dakka, it's still bargain basement stuff. Winterdyne will paint something much more epic for you... but to be fair, winterdyne will probably also charge you significantly more to do it

I'm not sure it's such a bargain, they still charge a lot of money for their services. I'm sure better painters charge more but that just goes to show how problematic the whole commision painting business can be - since a lot of time is required for quality work, the painters need to charge huge sums to be able to make a living from it, but at the same time the amounts they charge make their services a kind of luxury business that few can afford.

Personally I don't really understand why some people pay these amounts to get their armies painted. I mean I can understand buying a painted army second hand from another hobbyist becasue you really don't have the time/skill to paint it yourself, but buying new models and then paying almost double the amount to get them all painted "professionally"... To me that's just money wasted.

Maybe it's because I love the painting aspect of the hobby so much that I wouldn't dream of paying someone else to paint my minis. I get that some people don't really enjoy painting and want to play the game with a nice-looking army anyway, but the expenses are just mind-boggling. Apparently there are enough very rich nerds out there to provide a market for all these painting services.

 Acephale wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It's the highest they offer, they don't claim it's the highest they can do, just the highest they will sell. Even though it's the highest they offer, it's not a patch on several of the commission painters we have here on Dakka, it's still bargain basement stuff. Winterdyne will paint something much more epic for you... but to be fair, winterdyne will probably also charge you significantly more to do it

I'm not sure it's such a bargain, they still charge a lot of money for their services. I'm sure better painters charge more but that just goes to show how problematic the whole commision painting business can be - since a lot of time is required for quality work, the painters need to charge huge sums to be able to make a living from it, but at the same time the amounts they charge make their services a kind of luxury business that few can afford.

It's not cheap, but even to put one of those things together at an average level of quality would take most people 20+ hours. Earlier in this thread Tenebre said one of his big things that was supposed to be level 6 cost $250, it may sound like a lot (and the quality was definitely sub standard on that one) but at a decent hourly rate that's actually a rush job in my mind.

Personally I don't really understand why some people pay these amounts to get their armies painted. I mean I can understand buying a painted army second hand from another hobbyist becasue you really don't have the time/skill to paint it yourself, but buying new models and then paying almost double the amount to get them all painted "professionally"... To me that's just money wasted.

Maybe it's because I love the painting aspect of the hobby so much that I wouldn't dream of paying someone else to paint my minis. I get that some people don't really enjoy painting and want to play the game with a nice-looking army anyway, but the expenses are just mind-boggling. Apparently there are enough very rich nerds out there to provide a market for all these painting services.

Well that's another matter. To someone who doesn't enjoy painting or is short on time you sometimes have to ask yourself "how much in dollars terms is this time costing me?". For an army like Tenebre has, I'd give a rough estimate that it would take me about 500-600 hours to assemble and paint. If I spend 10 hours a weekend working on it that's a year's worth of work, and I don't want to spend 10 hours each and every weekend, maybe 1 weekend every month I might get up the enthusiasm to actually do it.

So in that context, especially considering it's a significant hobby for a lot of people and a lot of people have money but not time, for some people it's not a big deal. I have a hobby car, it's value is more than 4 times what I've spent on the hobby in the past 10 years. I could get a 5000pt army commission painted and it would still not reach the cost of my hobby car. I'm not trying to say the 2 are comparable, my car is worth more than my miniatures, I could turn around tomorrow and sell it for more money than I've put in to it (minus fuel), I can't do that with my minis... but none the less it puts the cost in to perspective a bit.

I actually do enjoy painting as well, but I enjoy painting one offs. The odd Space Marine, the odd Sherman tank, the odd car. As soon as I've painted 3 of the same thing it goes from enjoyment to endurance

It is more economical just to buy 2nd hand models. But that means you have to find a 2nd hand army that matches the vision you have for your army AND is decently painted. There's a plethora of poorly painted 2nd hand armies, not that many well painted ones, and many of the well painted ones cost a fortune as well. I got lucky once that my FLGS had the better part of a 1000pt Night Goblin army going for a couple of hundred bucks and it was actually painted to a standard I am happy to have, I bought it on the spot, but that's so rare (even then, many of the models were missing details that I needed to fix up).

 Acephale wrote:

Maybe it's because I love the painting aspect of the hobby so much that I wouldn't dream of paying someone else to paint my minis. I get that some people don't really enjoy painting and want to play the game with a nice-looking army anyway, but the expenses are just mind-boggling. Apparently there are enough very rich nerds out there to provide a market for all these painting services.

I read of a case from one chap who has a medical condition with exceedingly shaky hands. He loves to play, but physically can't paint his models. I've read of another who was colour-blind, and got somebody else to do his models for him so as to deter people from enquiring about whatever psychedelic colour scheme he would have ended up painting. More common still are stories of people with busy jobs and high wage packets that like to play, but have no time to paint. Others still love to paint, but find assembling and greenstuffing an entire DKOK army a bore, and would rather somebody handled that time consuming aspect and then sent it back to them to paint.

There are a sufficient number of people like this in the world as a whole to cater for a good ten or twenty commission painters easily. The best ones, such as GMM, have such a solid reputation that people pre-book up to a year in advance, because they know that they'll be satisfied with the result, as opposed to trusting it to 'some bloke I met down the hobby shop' to get it done.

Heh, I don't know about 'enough'. There's *some*.

As for the pricing, frankly, yes, it *is* a luxury business that few can afford. Not because it's expensive (in terms of cost per hour), but simply because (done well) it's very time intensive, which means paying for that time. At the end of the day it's a non-essential service on something that you don't really need to survive.

I actually think it makes more sense to have commission work done on rarer, more expensive models than armies; if you're paying £400 for a titan, why not spend a grand or so more and get it painted and based decently - making it something unique, and an actual piece of art? That adds value (most likely to the right collector more than your investment in getting it done). Getting it painted to a low standard removes value from even the base cost of the model, never mind any investment in the work done to it.

Same's true for character models etc. Most painters use really easily reproducible basing methods, so getting something that suits your army (or basing your army with the pro's technique) are not real concerns.

Thought I posted this in the AM, but it turns out I just typed it.. so... posting it now.

 Ketara wrote:


There are a sufficient number of people like this in the world as a whole to cater for a good ten or twenty commission painters easily. The best ones, such as GMM, have such a solid reputation that people pre-book up to a year in advance, because they know that they'll be satisfied with the result, as opposed to trusting it to 'some bloke I met down the hobby shop' to get it done.

I'm a painter, and enjoy painting my models for the most part. I've got very few that were not painted by myself - just a couple from friends and some rackham prepaints that I'll go over one day when I've got nothing else ot paint (read: never). But I've found that I hate assembling and painting (to a lesser extent) vehicles. Well, GW ones anyway. I've got a fair bit of larger-scale FW stuff, including some titans accumulated over the years. I'd rather pay someone to part-assemble them for me, bring them back for painting interior details, etc, then give them back for the next stage, etcetera. I'm just not excited about assembling huge resin models and would rather have someone who enjoys that sort of thing and is skilled at it do my models. So at the moment 90% of my vehicles sit unassembled and unpainted. Ranging from Rogue Trader-era kits (original tan-plastic Rhinos) to 1990s Armourcast Titans through to reasonably-recent FW HH vehicles. Would I pay someone to assemble and basecoat those for a reasonable price (letting me have the fun of detailing and finishing?) damn straight I would.

 Acephale wrote:

Personally I don't really understand why some people pay these amounts to get their armies painted. I mean I can understand buying a painted army second hand from another hobbyist becasue you really don't have the time/skill to paint it yourself, but buying new models and then paying almost double the amount to get them all painted "professionally"... To me that's just money wasted.

Maybe it's because I love the painting aspect of the hobby so much that I wouldn't dream of paying someone else to paint my minis. I get that some people don't really enjoy painting and want to play the game with a nice-looking army anyway, but the expenses are just mind-boggling. Apparently there are enough very rich nerds out there to provide a market for all these painting services.

I used to think that way until life intervened. Things got busier, and I don't have quite the time I once did and further I have multiple gaming projects going at once. I still do most of my own painting, but I now have a good number of units that I've had friends do for me, either in exchange for miniatures or for me making them some terrain or vehicles (which I especially enjoy and can do quickly).

Rather than veiled insults of "rich nerds" I actually applaud those who realize they don't have the time or inclination to paint a given force, yet are willing to put down the cash to get the minis painted. It may be a shortcut, but it gives a better experience on the table to your opponent who gets a nice painted army to play against rather than a grey horde. I'd much rather play against a commision-painted army than a grey horde.

 Acephale wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It's the highest they offer, they don't claim it's the highest they can do, just the highest they will sell. Even though it's the highest they offer, it's not a patch on several of the commission painters we have here on Dakka, it's still bargain basement stuff. Winterdyne will paint something much more epic for you... but to be fair, winterdyne will probably also charge you significantly more to do it

I'm not sure it's such a bargain, they still charge a lot of money for their services. I'm sure better painters charge more but that just goes to show how problematic the whole commision painting business can be - since a lot of time is required for quality work, the painters need to charge huge sums to be able to make a living from it, but at the same time the amounts they charge make their services a kind of luxury business that few can afford.

Personally I don't really understand why some people pay these amounts to get their armies painted. I mean I can understand buying a painted army second hand from another hobbyist becasue you really don't have the time/skill to paint it yourself, but buying new models and then paying almost double the amount to get them all painted "professionally"... To me that's just money wasted.

Maybe it's because I love the painting aspect of the hobby so much that I wouldn't dream of paying someone else to paint my minis. I get that some people don't really enjoy painting and want to play the game with a nice-looking army anyway, but the expenses are just mind-boggling. Apparently there are enough very rich nerds out there to provide a market for all these painting services.

Hey, I have nerve damage in my arm and I can't hold a paintbrush still. I need to pay services to have painted armies, but thanks for the insult. Jackass.

i wish this was a business full of "rich nerds" who paid me to indulge my artistic pretentions, while living on my yacht, and sipping Mimosas from a Brazilian girl's navel...

instead, it is a hard slog, where i as a high-end painter, even charging a very high price, earn less than minimum wage to provide one-off pieces of art to very passionate hobbyists, who happen to recognize that i have put thousands of hours of practice into sharpening my skills...
most everybody wants the "bro-deal" price, the timeframe is never quick enough to keep the customer happy, and most commission requests evaporate like so much smoke once the price qoute drops...

this is one tough racket...
good customers are as hard to find as good painters...

cheers
jah