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For anyone interested. Matt posted his glowing endorsement. Also, for those saying this is normal practice, it would be, barring the request for testimonials and addition of them (heck, even the other two they put up in the last week or two didn't have those, and they were obvious masks after the complaints in the endorsement request thread.) http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/bluetablepainting-painting-commission-studio-showcase-pics-within-

This is the testimonial I especially like,
"Hi this is THAYVIAN ,owner operator of Warpwidewargaming.com. I had BlueTablePainting.com do some work on my now infamous NURGLE bikers for last years Valhalla,as well as my Daemon Prince. Both projects turned out beautifully and the work really stands up under close inspection. Shawn and his guys Skyped with me through the entire process and made sure I was happy BEFORE they delivered the finished project."

Not only is a attendee of Valhalla (which I understand is a small and close knit group, with Valhalla being run by BTP), it is also the one which seems to try and cast aspersions on on Tenebre by mentioning how easy and regular contact with BTP is and how they make sure you're happy before sending something out.

Another MWG defending BTP video. Lets see how much further matt can dig the hole.

beaten to the punch by Gullinbursti *shake fist*

Given the disparity between tenebre's selected and contracted 'painting level' and what he received, this latest PR blitz from MWG is...puzzling.

As noted previously though, it is apparently some sort of pre-existing business arrangement/contract between MWG and BTP, I guess?

They really did it... That's sad. For them.

 Ustrello wrote:

Another MWG defending BTP video. Lets see how much further matt can dig the hole.

beaten to the punch by Gullinbursti *shake fist*

oh lord most of those models shown off at the end showcase were terrible

Or maybe they're really friends and it's their way of looking out for each other. Maybe a bad business move, but if that's the case then I guess it's a little honorable?

 IAmIchigo wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

Another MWG defending BTP video. Lets see how much further matt can dig the hole.

beaten to the punch by Gullinbursti *shake fist*

oh lord most of those models shown off at the end showcase were terrible

That land raider was so terrible, the blue was so thin you could see the black underneath it. And those poor warma models

The thing I found funny, now having watched the video, is none of the pieces shown during the video, nor during the slideshow at the end, were what I'd call good. From my understanding, claiming that level four is four levels of highlighting, I'd assume it would go as follows.

1. On an already primed model, spray the darkest version of the colour you're going to use on the applicable sections, say a very dark blue on models that are going to be blue in the end.

2. Using an airbrush, spray the mid tone in the centre of the areas that are to be blue.

3. Get your lightest blue tone and lightly drybrush all the blue areas to pick out the edges.

4. Ink with a thinned blue/black ink mix to give the model basic edging and definition.

Do this for all the colours, then hit it with a matte varnish to take the shine off of the ink.

Personally, if I was speed painting, I'd do exactly that and, for a few friends in the past, I have done that. You get a neat looking and decent paint job. Its damn easy, speedy and looks decent on table top. Of course, if I was going all out, I'd use about another four layers through the airbrush, various tones of ink, a few highlights and such. However, that takes a lot longer.

In the video though, something done to super highlight how awesome and cool BTP is, I can see primer, base colour, drybrush, done. With things like OSL so roughly slopped on the glowing red eyes are just blobs of red paint that take up 3/4s of the entire marines helmet.

 Ustrello wrote:

 IAmIchigo wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

Another MWG defending BTP video. Lets see how much further matt can dig the hole.

beaten to the punch by Gullinbursti *shake fist*

oh lord most of those models shown off at the end showcase were terrible

That land raider was so terrible, the blue was so thin you could see the black underneath it. And those poor warma models

dont forget the barrels not being drilled, and the sad sad eagle

People get a grip, second 15 "Before i get any further this is a sponsored video".

Man those are some bad models at the end there.

They didn't get in between the arms of the menofixes and the line on that Landraider wasn't even close to straight.

Such lazy drybrushing too. Its like the only two techniques they know are basecoating and drybrushing.

Except, as I already mentioned, they did two other sponsored videos, this last fortnight even, neither had a request go out for testimonials, nor did they add testimonials. Though I still do find it laughable that the "showcase" pictures BTP could provide is still way below any other painting commission group/studio I've seen.

xxvaderxx wrote:
People get a grip, second 15 "Before i get any further this is a sponsored video".

BTP's original white knight rears his head again

 Ustrello wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
People get a grip, second 15 "Before i get any further this is a sponsored video".

BTP's original white knight rears his head again

I have said it before but ill say it again, i do not like what btp produces in regards to painted models. That does mean this has not been completely blown out of proportion.

MWG are now the Antichrist? they got work from BTP under some promotion deals, now BTP choose to cash in on that deal, what would the community propose exactly? that they dropped their agreement with BTP? how on earth would that not make them exactly the same as what this thread is complaining about BTP to begin with?.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
People get a grip, second 15 "Before i get any further this is a sponsored video".

BTP's original white knight rears his head again

I have said it before but ill say it again, i do not like what btp produces in regards to painted models. That does mean this has not been completely blown out of proportion.

If a 500 dollar commission got bungled this badly it would deserve the same amount of scorn but not a thread this large. You have to remember this was a 7-9k mistake by btp and their attitude deserves the reaction.

I love the people who are now going "Well if there is only a few fails and they've done 8000 jobs, then they're fine." If my job is to press a button which turns off an MRI before it fries peoples brains, I don't get a pass when I fry a guy.

Is the occasional failure still going to happen, probably. Does that mean its an excuse? No. Also, when you find out you've failed as hard as they did with Tenebre, you do your best to make it up to the wronged person. Airbrushing for 30secs to try and use badly done OSL (unrequested, nor consulted) to cover half done painting Is about the worst thing I could imagine doing to someone's army. Not only is the person left with a badly painted army which doesn't match their envisioned scheme, it makes it ever harder to repaint/fix.

If BTP can't handle the job (9000pts is a big damn jump in one sitting), you don't take it. Hell, I specifically have never painted up a full army on commission because my enjoyment/focus level is about right for Infinity sized forces. I've painted 40k/fantasy armies for myself, but I find them more a chore so I don't do themas commissions, even for mates.

 Gullinbursti wrote:
I love the people who are now going "Well if there is only a few fails and they've done 8000 jobs, then they're fine. If my job is to press a button which turns off an MRI before it fries peoples brains, I don't get a pass when I fry a guy.

Is the occasional failure still going to happen, probably. Does that mean its an excuse? No. Also, when you find out you've failed as hard as they did with Tenebre, you do your best to make it up to the wronged person. Airbrushing for 30secs to try and use badly done OSL (unrequested, nor consulted) to cover half done painting Is about the worst thing I could imagine doing to someone's army. Not only is the person left with a badly painted army, it makes it ever harder to repaint/fix.

If BTP can't handle the job (9000pts is a big damn jump in one sitting), you don't take it. Hell, I specifically have never painted up a full army because my enjoyment/focus level is about right for Infinity sized forces. I've painted 40k/fantasy armies for myself, but I find them more a chore so I don't do them, even as commissions for mates.

Reality check here, mistakes are only as big as the consequences they produce, they are not doing brain surgery and they are not held to the same standards you or i are. If you dont like it, i suggest you pick up gardening.

Sorry, I don't get your analogy. Take up gardening?

Edit: I'll make it simpler, say I'm a plumber. Say I take contracts to fix plumbing and I get a job to unblock a toilet. If I fail to unblock the toilet, the person who hired me isn't expected to go "Oh well, next time he'll get it". As a professional in any field, you have to accept when you fail to deliver and then go out of your way to make your customer happy. This would normally include a refund.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Gullinbursti wrote:
I love the people who are now going "Well if there is only a few fails and they've done 8000 jobs, then they're fine. If my job is to press a button which turns off an MRI before it fries peoples brains, I don't get a pass when I fry a guy.

Is the occasional failure still going to happen, probably. Does that mean its an excuse? No. Also, when you find out you've failed as hard as they did with Tenebre, you do your best to make it up to the wronged person. Airbrushing for 30secs to try and use badly done OSL (unrequested, nor consulted) to cover half done painting Is about the worst thing I could imagine doing to someone's army. Not only is the person left with a badly painted army, it makes it ever harder to repaint/fix.

If BTP can't handle the job (9000pts is a big damn jump in one sitting), you don't take it. Hell, I specifically have never painted up a full army because my enjoyment/focus level is about right for Infinity sized forces. I've painted 40k/fantasy armies for myself, but I find them more a chore so I don't do them, even as commissions for mates.

Reality check here, mistakes are only as big as the consequences they produce, they are not doing brain surgery and they are not held to the same standards you or i are. If you dont like it, i suggest you pick up gardening.

Screwing up a close to $10,000 commission is a huge screwup. It can be forgiven if they actually try and fix it, but they haven't done that. They've basically denied any wrongdoing on their part, told the customer he's wrong, and didn't even do the paintjob that was requested. That is an unforgivable action. Its no longer a mistake at this point, because a mistake implies you were at least trying to do what the customer wanted.

Yeah, one thing I don't think the "Hey hey BTP Fans" get is the fact that this army, including model cost, probably ran at an amount between $12000 -$15000 USD (thats including the models and over estimating on some since some were out of print buys). For that amount I could expand and refurbish both my bathrooms, or redo the kitchen with appliances, or buy one hell of a good second hand car, or put a deposit on that new house.

Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

Lol, doubt it, but from what i gather from this thread, we are likely to actually have the opportunity to see about that.

I.. have no words. If those are their showcase quality work...

Why. WHY.

Lol I wet myself looking at those... they can't even paint a straight line, hell even I can paint better than that

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

If the buyer feels he has been cheated enough, then he could possibly threaten them with Criminal fraud. Has BTP not offered to redo the models free of charge?

Thumbs down have doubled within the last hour.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thumbs down have doubled within the last hour.

Roughly double the up votes also. I wonder if this will be the most downvoted MWG video, also its funny they will have to keep it up otherwise it shows they are jumping ship on btp.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

If the buyer feels he has been cheated enough, then he could possibly threaten them with Criminal fraud. Has BTP not offered to redo the models free of charge?

Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

xxvaderxx wrote:
MWG are now the Antichrist? they got work from BTP under some promotion deals, now BTP choose to cash in on that deal, what would the community propose exactly? that they dropped their agreement with BTP? how on earth would that not make them exactly the same as what this thread is complaining about BTP to begin with?.

You're entirely missing the point. MWG are not getting flak for having business affiliations with BTP, their getting flak for their erroneous and unethical involvement with tenebre's case. They could have easily (and, as a business, should have) taken a "no-comment" stance on matter, their statement needn't go further than "we are happy with the painting services we have received by BTP and our partnership with them will not change". Or something to that effect - business as usual, basically.

But then, BTP could (and again, should have) nipped this whole matter in the bud, addressed their failings at the very first instance, delivered excellent customer service and instead of taking a very public reputation hit could have turned it into a PR boosting success story. Oh well, that would assume we're looking at actual professionals with a sense of customer care and business ethics. Instead we have a guy digging a hole and a mate who walks past and, having a shovel, jumps in as well.

xxvaderxx wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

If the buyer feels he has been cheated enough, then he could possibly threaten them with Criminal fraud. Has BTP not offered to redo the models free of charge?

Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

Erm..no. They offered to take the army back for like 20 percent store credit, offered to have GMM repaint it at BTP's cost but they backed out of that when OP said yes to that, offered to fly a painter out to OP and have him fix it there for like a week . Every option also required that OP take down his review videos