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xxvaderxx wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

If the buyer feels he has been cheated enough, then he could possibly threaten them with Criminal fraud. Has BTP not offered to redo the models free of charge?

Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

Except for the following fact. The army has been sent back to be fixed, IIRC, 4 times already with a ton of down time in between and they still didn't get fixed.

I wouldn't trust BTP with my very expensive Forge World army they've already mangled several times.

They did make an offer to pay another studio to repaint the army instead, but when it was accepted they backed out and claimed they wanted too much money.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Has BTP not offered to redo the models free of charge?

Someone's not up to speed on this, are they?

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

If the buyer feels he has been cheated enough, then he could possibly threaten them with Criminal fraud. Has BTP not offered to redo the models free of charge?

Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

Except for the following fact. The army has been sent back to be fixed, IIRC, 4 times already with a ton of down time in between and they still didn't get fixed.

I wouldn't trust BTP with my very expensive Forge World army they've already mangled several times.

They did make an offer to pay another studio to repaint the army instead, but when it was accepted they backed out and claimed they wanted too much money.

No they didnt, they would buy the models thus no models are needed for touch up. that is what the op stated on his original video.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

Someone else is equally out of touch with this issue, it seems...

 Anfauglir wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

Someone else is equally out of touch with this issue, it seems...

Yes and that some one is apparently you, go back watch the original videos, the reason the OP did not take this offer was because he did not wanted to deal with the delay ordering this models from FW and have them delivered would cause.

xxvaderxx wrote:
No they didnt, they would buy the models thus no models are needed for touch up. that is what the op stated on his original video.

And since then we've learned that BTP have retracted every single offer made except one - one that tenebre told them from the outset was out of the question. So, there goes that.

 Grey Templar wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

DaKKaLAnce wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. This isn't chump change.

This is actually nearing criminal fraud territory with the amount of cash involved. Jail time could be on the table.

If the buyer feels he has been cheated enough, then he could possibly threaten them with Criminal fraud. Has BTP not offered to redo the models free of charge?

Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

Except for the following fact. The army has been sent back to be fixed, IIRC, 4 times already with a ton of down time in between and they still didn't get fixed.

I wouldn't trust BTP with my very expensive Forge World army they've already mangled several times.

They did make an offer to pay another studio to repaint the army instead, but when it was accepted they backed out and claimed they wanted too much money.

If I had the chance to get GMM to paint my army I would jump at it too. Shawn was probably just saying that to placate OP and was praying he didn't choose that one.

As pointed out in the original and follow up video, Tenebre spent a lot of money, and time, both purchasing and converting portions of this army. It has out of print models that are extremely hard to get anymore and models such as the Hobgoblin riders are scratch built by Tenebre himself. There is no way this army could literally be replaced piece for piece. Like all of their offers, barring Tenebre sending his models to them for a fourth attempt at painting them, it is completely unfeasible and if chosen, would have no doubt been retracted as well.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Yes and that some one is apparently you, go back watch the original videos, the reason the OP did not take this offer was because he did not wanted to deal with the delay ordering this models from FW and have them delivered would cause.

Except no, because BTP knew full well that they wouldn't be able to get hold of the same army, and, based off how they retracted all the others, I'm pretty certain that as soon as tenebre would have said "okay you get a replica army and repaint it then" BTP would have come back with "actually... the cost for getting a replica army is too high, so..." just like they did with getting another studio to repaint offer.

 Anfauglir wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Yes and that some one is apparently you, go back watch the original videos, the reason the OP did not take this offer was because he did not wanted to deal with the delay ordering this models from FW and have them delivered would cause.

Except no, because BTP knew full well that they wouldn't be able to get hold of the same army, and, based off how they retracted all the others, I'm pretty certain that as soon as tenebre would have said "okay you get a replica army and repaint it then" BTP would have come back with "actually... the cost for getting a replica army is too high, so..." just like they did with getting another studio to repaint offer.

If i remember correctly, the only oop models were the hobgoblins, which incidentally the op stated in the same video that they were fine, thus if he had been of the mind to work with btp, no replacement would have been necessary for those models. And regarding your second statement, since the op refused that offer, we will never know.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Yes and that some one is apparently you, go back watch the original videos, the reason the OP did not take this offer was because he did not wanted to deal with the delay ordering this models from FW and have them delivered would cause.

Except no, because BTP knew full well that they wouldn't be able to get hold of the same army, and, based off how they retracted all the others, I'm pretty certain that as soon as tenebre would have said "okay you get a replica army and repaint it then" BTP would have come back with "actually... the cost for getting a replica army is too high, so..." just like they did with getting another studio to repaint offer.

If i remember correctly, the only oop models were the hobgoblins, which incidentally the op stated in the same video that they were fine, thus if he had been of the mind to work with btp, no replacement would have been necessary for those models. And regarding your second statement, since the op refused that offer, we will never know.

Dancing around the question. If you have a army worth that much, and a company has screwed up this badly would you even trust them for a FIFTH time? If you say yes you are more disillusioned than I previously thought.

xxvaderxx wrote:
thus if he had been of the mind to work with btp

As we have seen, tenebre has been more than gracious and willing to work on a solution to this, to no avail. The lack of communication, the mishandling of the commission itself and the subsequent stalling and wasting of tenebre's time with outlandish offers and constant backpeddling is all on BTP. Trying to argue otherwise is futile and boils down to white knighting for BTP. What are you trying to achieve here?

And regarding your second statement, since the op refused that offer, we will never know.

No, but all evidence thus far supports my misgivings. Kinda funny how the only offer they haven't touched is also the only offer tenebre said from the beginning was, understandably, unacceptable to him.

 Ustrello wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Yes and that some one is apparently you, go back watch the original videos, the reason the OP did not take this offer was because he did not wanted to deal with the delay ordering this models from FW and have them delivered would cause.

Except no, because BTP knew full well that they wouldn't be able to get hold of the same army, and, based off how they retracted all the others, I'm pretty certain that as soon as tenebre would have said "okay you get a replica army and repaint it then" BTP would have come back with "actually... the cost for getting a replica army is too high, so..." just like they did with getting another studio to repaint offer.

If i remember correctly, the only oop models were the hobgoblins, which incidentally the op stated in the same video that they were fine, thus if he had been of the mind to work with btp, no replacement would have been necessary for those models. And regarding your second statement, since the op refused that offer, we will never know.

Dancing around the question. If you have a army worth that much, and a company has screwed up this badly would you even trust them for a FIFTH time? If you say yes you are more disillusioned than I previously thought.

So then you concede that they in deed offered what i stated, good you are starting to get your facts straight.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Yes they have, in fact they first offered to buy a new army, paint it and then exchange it with the one they had already done. So the customer could keep it in the meantime.

Someone else is equally out of touch with this issue, it seems...

Yes and that some one is apparently you, go back watch the original videos, the reason the OP did not take this offer was because he did not wanted to deal with the delay ordering this models from FW and have them delivered would cause.

Vader, see below.



Anyways, to be back on topic. I'm just glad Tene is getting a decent repaint now. He's practically paid for a room or two in a house by now with all this business, to put things into scale.

Actually forge world ups and takes down stuff fairly regular it seems. When I first went on there to "buy" Tenebre's army to get an idea of the cost, the Bale Taurus and Drazhoath were down but the flame elemental giant was there. Now the giant is missing and the Bale Taurus and Draz are up. So it would be even more difficult getting all the correct models (especially in a timely manner) then I'd originally thought.

Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

yep i walked into that one. hope the point gets across any how.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

Exalted. This is a criminal fraud case, not some stupid schoolhouse feud. You're whiteknighting for a snake oil salesman who blatantly rips off kickstarters, customers, and his own employees.

What I found odd about the video, not that MWG put it out, because obviously it was a sponsored video, but the wild fluctuation in quality with their showcase. I think some of the models at the end looked really good, but again, that Land Raider was pathetic. If they didn't have such a wild variation in quality, I think they could be a halfway decent painting company. That and fix their communication

 Stormwall wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

Exalted. This is a criminal fraud case, not some stupid schoolhouse feud. You're whiteknighting for a snake oil salesman who blatantly rips off kickstarters, customers, and his own employees.

Im white knighting factual information, BTP can go feth them selves.

 jreilly89 wrote:
What I found odd about the video, not that MWG put it out, because obviously it was a sponsored video, but the wild fluctuation in quality with their showcase. I think some of the models at the end looked really good, but again, that Land Raider was pathetic. If they didn't have such a wild variation in quality, I think they could be a halfway decent painting company. That and fix their communication

In all honestly, everything in that video looks pathetic.

The Tau were decent. Nothing amazing though.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

yep i walked into that one. hope the point gets across any how.

If the point was that you're blissfully unaware of the irony in your comment, then yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormwall wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

Exalted. This is a criminal fraud case, not some stupid schoolhouse feud. You're whiteknighting for a snake oil salesman who blatantly rips off kickstarters, customers, and his own employees.

I'm curious, how has Shawn ripped off his own employees? Please bring me up to speed.

 jreilly89 wrote:
What I found odd about the video, not that MWG put it out, because obviously it was a sponsored video, but the wild fluctuation in quality with their showcase. I think some of the models at the end looked really good, but again, that Land Raider was pathetic. If they didn't have such a wild variation in quality, I think they could be a halfway decent painting company. That and fix their communication

To be honest, MWG is like the soap scum at the top of the drain. They're slowly circling the drain until they are out of sight. MWG has been dying since their store closed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

yep i walked into that one. hope the point gets across any how.

If the point was that you're blissfully unaware of the irony in your comment, then yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormwall wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

Exalted. This is a criminal fraud case, not some stupid schoolhouse feud. You're whiteknighting for a snake oil salesman who blatantly rips off kickstarters, customers, and his own employees.

I'm curious, how has Shawn ripped off his own employees? Please bring me up to speed.

The fact that he pays them minimum wage, shuts them off from their clients and prior employee (Spencer,) testimony on Ten's youtube videos? Just food for thought but, if an employee admits stealing models so that Shawn wouldn't sell them off, it's kinda sketchy all around. I thought we already established this company is complete garbage in the way they communicate and treat people. Anyways, that's all I was referring to. In my eyes it's really boinking them. Sure them getting paid isn't by definition ripping them off but, the amount of wage in question is garbage for a commission painter. Rip into that sentence all you like, it was worded a bit too powerfully but, as I said in the last sentence, the painters should be treated better IMO, in BTP's videos they seem like they are worthless peons in the background, or being tossed from project to project and kept in the dark. Other horribly bad things too, involving his kickstarter or some indiegogo crud.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

Exalted. This is a criminal fraud case, not some stupid schoolhouse feud. You're whiteknighting for a snake oil salesman who blatantly rips off kickstarters, customers, and his own employees.

Im white knighting factual information

No you aren't, you're being deliberately obtuse to score pedant points. It makes you read like an absolute arse.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

yep i walked into that one. hope the point gets across any how.

If the point was that you're blissfully unaware of the irony in your comment, then yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormwall wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Please i dont give a rats ass about btp. But i do really get offended when righteous indignation is misrepresented as facts.

Somebody give Vader a mirror.

Exalted. This is a criminal fraud case, not some stupid schoolhouse feud. You're whiteknighting for a snake oil salesman who blatantly rips off kickstarters, customers, and his own employees.

I'm curious, how has Shawn ripped off his own employees? Please bring me up to speed.

He committed tax fraud by paying him employees as contractors when they did not meet the legal definition of doing so.

By doing this he also tried skirting around the legally required full time employee benefits he has to pay as a employer in his state. Meaning he also broke Labour laws.

This all came out when he tried to get money using Kickstarter from former employees.

Thanks, I tried to remember it all but, I couldn't. I thought I was going to look the fool.

Hey can we put our long quote chains in spoilers to help out everyone loading the thread from their mobile/keep it tidy for the mods? I just wanna see this topic last for a while, at least until ten shows us his newly painted plastic crack.

If this is what MWG call quality and they're happy to recommend them, I'm so glad I live thousands of miles away and have nothing to do with them. By the way did they really paint lions metallic gold??

I saw that too.
And notice the shoulder pads, it looks like gold over straight black

That blue is hideous.

By the by, Winterdyne do you take commissions for single characters that aren't complicated? With all the stuff going on I feel like I should have a standard in my army to show people what a pro painted figure looks like.

Edit: Ouch... Uk. Nevermind, I might just want to paint him myself and strip the paint when I get better later...