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 BrokenRecord wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Waaghschale from www.waaaghgaming.de has some more info bits. He is sharing them on a german forum atm

Gabriel Seth and Commander Dante are indeed Lords of War

Then the relics, I am translating what Waaaghschale could see on a poor photo. So careful with these

BA Relics:
– Blade of Courage: S Bearer, AP2, Melee
– Fury of Baal: 12″, S7, AP2, Pistol, Mastercrafted, Plasma weapon but NO overheating/gets hot

And here we have AP2 everything Mephiston

SC don't usually get access to relics.

Wow. A Relic that causes Fear. OMG totes OP!


And I suspect that "Two Warlord Traits" thing will be in every army.



But seriously though, Assault Marines back to FA? Talk about gutting an army. Good jooorrb GW.

 pretre wrote:

 BrokenRecord wrote:


And here we have AP2 everything Mephiston

SC don't usually get access to relics.

Ah poop, you're right. Got excited and jumped the gun there.

still you can almost have that by giving a normal captain or CM those weapons... ah wait, lascannons.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BeeCee wrote:
one thing to note, if you want to take the squad from deathstorm, they are listed as troops. same for the DC dread.

Question: Would the worldwide +1I make Power Fists and Thunder Hammmers hit at I2 or would they still be I1?

Considering that Cassor the Damned is pretty much your average DC Dread, putting him in troops won't hurt at all.

Does anyone get the idea that the teams that worked on Deathstorm we're using the old codex and some notes about the new one?

It goes multipliers, additions, set values.

So in the case you're asking, they'd get their I boosted to 5, then unwieldy would set it at 1. (Or do they just strike at the I1 step but not actually modify the I characteristic of the model? Either way, you're going at 1.)

Iuchiban on Warseer

1. Does Mephiston have access to anything that makes him move faster than 6" in movement phase, e.g. Jump pack or Psychic abilitiy like "Wings of Sanguinius".
2. Sanginor, is he an IC?

1. No.
2. No.



Can you confirm if Dante still unlocks Sanguinary Guard as troops?

No, he does not unlock SG as tropos. BTW I haven't seen any FoC unlocking in the codex. Not even the command squad, which is Elite now.



The detachment mentioned before may be attractive enough with I+1.
Especially if it is not only during the first assault turn (but it probably is).

The Detachment is very nice. As I said before, the I bonus is for the whole army and works every turn.



Is a Sword/Axe Encarmine still a mastercrafted weapon?

Yes. Btw, the max unit size is now 10. 33 points per model.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Does anyone get the idea that the teams that worked on Deathstorm we're using the old codex and some notes about the new one?

That, or they saw the nerdrage train a-comin' around the bend and figured the Deathstorm stuff might mollify it somewhat.

As Vaktathi said, the info so far seems very much in line with recent codex updates. What's more, it also mostly seems reasonable to me, and also potentially quite good depending on how points costs come in.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

BeeCee wrote:
one thing to note, if you want to take the squad from deathstorm, they are listed as troops. same for the DC dread.

Question: Would the worldwide +1I make Power Fists and Thunder Hammmers hit at I2 or would they still be I1?

Considering that Cassor the Damned is pretty much your average DC Dread, putting him in troops won't hurt at all.

Does anyone get the idea that the teams that worked on Deathstorm we're using the old codex and some notes about the new one?

It goes multipliers, additions, set values.

So in the case you're asking, they'd get their I boosted to 5, then unwieldy would set it at 1. (Or do they just strike at the I1 step but not actually modify the I characteristic of the model? Either way, you're going at 1.)

Ah okay. So Raphen's squad's two I1 weapons kinda sucks. I can't decide what I want to do with them. They may actually be built a little different and go in Elites. Regardless, Cassor the Damned will be built and used as is. If he is the only way to get a Dread in Troops, I am taking it.

But yeah, totally waiting to see if they will do a Buy This Supplement To Actually Play Your Army like they did with almost every other army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has it been said if Vanguard Veterans are still Fast Attack or if they have been moved into the WAY overcrowded Elites?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Has it been said if Vanguard Veterans are still Fast Attack or if they have been moved into the WAY overcrowded Elites?

They're exactly the same as they are in Codex: Space Marines, but with the addition of Furious Charge.

 BrokenRecord wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Has it been said if Vanguard Veterans are still Fast Attack or if they have been moved into the WAY overcrowded Elites?

They're exactly the same as they are in Codex: Space Marines, but with the addition of Furious Charge.

So... IF I ever get any, they will probably be built as an Assault Squad so they don't use up an Elite slot.

On the bright side, I am probably going to save a ton of money now.

Well...... really glad I wainted to build some of the guys from the Box set until I got info. Cause I already have 30 Jump marines ready to roll and wont need more than that now. I have more than enough DC to fill elite slots, that they must now share with other good elite units ( which is a bummer).

The Good- Dante is awesome ...and sadly almost an auto include.*WL traits aren't horrible * Physic powers seem decent to good * Relics seem pretty nice * +1int is nice. *Memphiston came out alright or at least didn't get beaten with a Nerf Hammer to the point of being unusable.*Tactical Marines get good options (however this is clearly just to sell kits) *Decent point drops on some models (that we know so far)

The Bad- +1int and +1str is only good if you charge and many opponents already know to charge you first if you get close enough * loss of re-roll to wound on Chaplain ( except Astorath) * DC and DC dread into elites(making this crowded) * loss of Land Raider Transports * Baal predator in HS ( now making this crowded) * Loss of DOA

The Ugly- * Priests into HQ ( if there is no modifiers for this) and the sin of all sins for BA players Assault Marines no longer troops, basically gutting the feel of our entire army and only lending credence to those who want BA folded into the Vanilla Dex.


Im not all doom and gloom, there is good in there and some other things I can live with easily and just need to adjust my style too. However gutting the entire feel of our army .....yea that hurts.

Oh joy, according to this, my favorite army just got ruined. Fun times. Still hoping for an April fools shout.

I've got like 80 assault marines that I can't even use half of in a list now. Maybe I can paint half of them black to use as DC.

Still utterly stupid that I have to put down a 10 tactical marine tax when running a jump army.

Got 8 priests already, and no room for them in a force org anymore.

I guess ima have to start convincing people that unbound "isn't that bad" so I can have my core troops back. Oh, and try to get hq's that are stupidly marked as lords of war to just count as hq's.
Let the house ruling commence!

 BlackArmour wrote:
I'm not all doom and gloom, there is good in there and some other things I can live with easily and just need to adjust my style too. However gutting the entire feel of our army .....yea that hurts.

I'm pretty much in complete agreement with you. A lot of this really stinks, but there is a lot of good too; I'm just extremely worried about the crowding in all of the areas except for Troops; we have a ton of units wedged into a very limited number of slots. Still, I think I will be able to adjust my play style to fit the new feel of the army.

I have to say though, the biggest kick in the nuts is the fact that I do think this makes a lot of the haters right; we really could just be rolled into the vanilla Space Marines dex without much effort


Exactly
v v v v v

Blood Angels are really no different from the average C:SM Chapter than Black Templars at this point.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Let the house ruling commence!

Unbound isn't houseruling.

Yep. Looks like there won't be an 8th or higher edition BA book, just a "make your own marines chapter" book with a tiny blurb about chapters that used to be so fleshed out.

I've never been more sure that GW are complete morons.

Apparently Corbulo now costs 120pts and gives units within 6" +1 WS & +1 Initiative... I can live with that, especially given that I am definitely running at a double CAD or a BA specific Detatchment + Formations

Plenty of spots for all the HQs and Elites

I don't have the old dex in front of me but didn't the jump pack piece of wargear actually grant DOA? Is there any mention of the jump pack adding a bonus this time around?

I can see a lot of people being upset about assault marines no longer being troops, but shoot, saying that ruins the army?
Blood Angels don't have any more assault marines than any other codex chapter, back in 3rd ed they weren't troop choices, and that was arguably when Blood Angels were at their best.

I'm honestly more excited about tacticals being good again, and then being able to use my assault marines to support them.

 pretre wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Let the house ruling commence!

Unbound isn't houseruling.

When you already have the well-entrenched standard house rule of "no unbound," it's pretty much gonna be the same process though. :(

Also I guess I can drop a lot of things from my 40k wish list. The land raider thing sucks too.

Tpiddy wrote:
I don't have the old dex in front of me but didn't the jump pack piece of wargear actually grant DOA? Is there any mention of the jump pack adding a bonus this time around?

Yes it did, and no, there isn't. DoA is a Warlord Trait ONLY now (and Dante has it automatically).

 Vaktathi wrote:
Everything so far looks to be about what anyone should have expected if you'd paid any attention to the CSM, DA, SW, and GK releases, no big surprises at all barring assault marines.

This is a consequence of the previous book going rather full-ham overboard in some areas (e.g. more access to heavy armor in more FoC slots than any other army including IG, etc). There was going to be some drastic scaling back and a lot of the niche-build armies aren't going to come through intact, just as things like Vendetta-spam IG armies didn't either.

On top of that, the BA's have always been a relatively Codex-adherent chapter, they don't have more assault marines than anyone else. I understand the imagery and differentiation GW went for with the WD list and the Ward-dex, and even I'm surprised they're dropping the Assault Marines as Troops, but I can see where they're coming from for it.

From the looks of it though, they're taking into account that Elites are very crowded, and the army-wide Init bonus will be very handy indeed against opposing MEQ/Eldar/Daemon foes.

Ultimately, perhaps aside from the change to Assault Marines, I don't think anyone should be surprised at all by most of these changes. We'll see if the expanded Elites allowance and Init bonus makes up for the removal/relocation of other options.

Pretttty much. I was worried that BA might end up being top-tier, but now I figure they'll be closer to DA, maybe just below SW. Losing Assault Marines from troops is a pretty massive nerf and flavour-killer, even if it is way closer to the fluff.

Really though, the book looks like it'll still be pretty effective in the end. Even if you aren't running one of the better detachments, take min-Tac squads and then spam the crap out of your FA and Elite slots. Armour saturation lists are still looking pretty good.

 Walnuts wrote:
I can see a lot of people being upset about assault marines no longer being troops, but shoot, saying that ruins the army?
Blood Angels don't have any more assault marines than any other codex chapter, back in 3rd ed they weren't troop choices, and that was arguably when Blood Angels were at their best.

I'm honestly more excited about tacticals being good again, and then being able to use my assault marines to support them.

Im pretty sure tacticals are about as mediocre as they have always been and always will be.

furious charge on a bunch of men wont really do too much.

Why is Lord of War a bad thing? Can anyone explain this to me?

I can understand that people feel the army lost the flavor, I agree. In my mind BA were jump marines.

But i don't really see how assault marines were horribly competitive anyways, often times people just used them san jump packs to spam cheap transports. With the cheaper tactical squads, you are getting pretty much the same thing here.

So from an army power standpoint, i think the army will be better, if anything just bringing the unit costs down to what SM are now will do that.

But losing the all jumper flavor is a bummer but mostly on a army asthetics level.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Why is Lord of War a bad thing? Can anyone explain this to me?

Tranny c'tans are bad mmk?

With tactical marines being able to have up to 4 flamers, there becoming the new assault marines.

 Desubot wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Why is Lord of War a bad thing? Can anyone explain this to me?

Tranny c'tans are bad mmk?

that did nothing to answer my question...

Why is Dante being a LoW a bad thing?

Dante as LoW is good. Frees up HQ's for those lovely Relics, or Sanguinary Priests.

 BrokenRecord wrote:

Tpiddy wrote:
I don't have the old dex in front of me but didn't the jump pack piece of wargear actually grant DOA? Is there any mention of the jump pack adding a bonus this time around?

Yes it did, and no, there isn't. DoA is a Warlord Trait ONLY now (and Dante has it automatically).

Thanks. That is a bummer. Sounds like Dante is an auto include for me going forward.