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col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
@FlingItNow:

If we play by your solution, you cannot resolve a roll to hit and you cannot resolve a roll to wound and so you cannot resolve Psychic Shriek. Tell the opponent to re-roll for his psychic power.

Why does an inability to roll to wound cause an inability to resolve Psychic Shriek? Are you asserting that Psychic Shriek rolls To Wound?

I am saying you need to resolve steps 4 and 5 . . .

You only get to step 5 for successful rolls to hit. You only get to resolve Psychic Shriek on successful rolls to hit.

But what rule supports that statement?

This profile is the minimum required to resolve psychic shriek as witchfire. Notice that I am not saying that Psychic Shriek is requiring a To Wound Roll.

Spoiler:

Psychic Shriek
Range: 18"
Str: *
AP: -
Type: Assault 1

* Instead of a to wound roll, roll 3D6 and subtract the target’s Leadership – the target unit suffers a number of Wounds equal to the result. Armour and cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek.

That's a cute profile you completely made up with absolutely no basis in fact. Except the name. And the range. The underlined doesn't exist anywhere in the actual rules though.

@rigeld:



You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

Correct. The hit does not wound the target.
Psychic Shriek doesn't care.

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

Correct. The hit does not wound the target.
Psychic Shriek doesn't care.

You are not permitted to skip steps 4 and 5. You need to resolve step 5. At stake is whether you wound the target. You roll to see IF you wound the target.

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

Correct. The hit does not wound the target.
Psychic Shriek doesn't care.

You are not permitted to skip steps 4 and 5. You need to resolve step 5. At stake is whether you wound the target. You roll to see IF you wound the target.

Not true at all.
Step 5 is where you make a To Wound roll. Psychic Shriek does not roll To Wound.
Using terminology correctly is important in any rules discussion.

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

AH, you still seem to believe that wounds MUST have a to wound previously for them to happen. That is if course false. See perils, for an example.

Step 5 resolves- we have no hits, and even if we have a hit we have no profile to roll against, so cannot roll to-wound anyway.

I'll go ahead and resolve the power according to its entry, as actual rules tell me to do. You can play made up rules if you wish.

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

Correct. The hit does not wound the target.
Psychic Shriek doesn't care.

You are not permitted to skip steps 4 and 5. You need to resolve step 5. At stake is whether you wound the target. You roll to see IF you wound the target.

Not true at all.
Step 5 is where you make a To Wound roll. Psychic Shriek does not roll To Wound.
Using terminology correctly is important in any rules discussion.

Psychic Shriek is witchfire, a shooting attack, so step 5 is required. Please show me where in the rules you are allowed to skip this step.

Also, please show in the rules where you are allowed to auto-hit.

col_impact wrote:
Psychic Shriek is witchfire, a shooting attack, so step 5 is required. Please show me where in the rules you are allowed to skip this step.

Also, please show in the rules where you are allowed to auto-hit.

Considering neither of the things you're asking for are things I've asserted, no - I won't show them.
Neither are required.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

AH, you still seem to believe that wounds MUST have a to wound previously for them to happen. That is if course false. See perils, for an example.

Step 5 resolves- we have no hits, and even if we have a hit we have no profile to roll against, so cannot roll to-wound anyway.

I'll go ahead and resolve the power according to its entry, as actual rules tell me to do. You can play made up rules if you wish.

You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

Yeah I basically agree with everything Nos and Rigeld have repeated as we've gone over this several times now. Do you have any rules to refute the RaW stated or are you sticking to your made up rules = RaW claim or are you know arguing HYWPI?

col_impact wrote:
You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

I roll to hit with zero shots (as I'm not told I have any). I then roll To Wound with all the shots that hit (none did so).
I then roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership (as Psychic Shriek requires me to do) and apply that many wounds to the unit. These wounds ignore armor and cover saves.

What rule did I break?

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Psychic Shriek is witchfire, a shooting attack, so step 5 is required. Please show me where in the rules you are allowed to skip this step.

Also, please show in the rules where you are allowed to auto-hit.

Considering neither of the things you're asking for are things I've asserted, no - I won't show them.
Neither are required.

You are required to resolve as witchfire.

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Psychic Shriek is witchfire, a shooting attack, so step 5 is required. Please show me where in the rules you are allowed to skip this step.

Also, please show in the rules where you are allowed to auto-hit.

Considering neither of the things you're asking for are things I've asserted, no - I won't show them.
Neither are required.

You are required to resolve as witchfire.

Correct! And ... ?

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

I roll to hit with zero shots (as I'm not told I have any). I then roll To Wound with all the shots that hit (none did so).
I then roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership (as Psychic Shriek requires me to do) and apply that many wounds to the unit. These wounds ignore armor and cover saves.

What rule did I break?

If a shooting attack does not specify multiple shots it is understood as one shot, per the rules.

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

I roll to hit with zero shots (as I'm not told I have any). I then roll To Wound with all the shots that hit (none did so).
I then roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership (as Psychic Shriek requires me to do) and apply that many wounds to the unit. These wounds ignore armor and cover saves.

What rule did I break?

If a shooting attack does not specify multiple shots it is understood as one shot, per the rules.

There is literally no rule that says that. Ever. You've invented that.

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

I roll to hit with zero shots (as I'm not told I have any). I then roll To Wound with all the shots that hit (none did so).
I then roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership (as Psychic Shriek requires me to do) and apply that many wounds to the unit. These wounds ignore armor and cover saves.

What rule did I break?

If a shooting attack does not specify multiple shots it is understood as one shot, per the rules.

There is literally no rule that says that. Ever. You've invented that.

Zero is not a vaild option. If it's unstated, it's taken to be one.

col_impact wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

AH, you still seem to believe that wounds MUST have a to wound previously for them to happen. That is if course false. See perils, for an example.

Step 5 resolves- we have no hits, and even if we have a hit we have no profile to roll against, so cannot roll to-wound anyway.

I'll go ahead and resolve the power according to its entry, as actual rules tell me to do. You can play made up rules if you wish.

You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

We agree you can't resolve steps 4 & 5. So does the game stop there or does it continue with what we can resolve?

Look at a witchfire power that has a profile. The psychic rules that keep being brought up tell you to resolve the power. What about the witchfire powers with a profile tell you to roll to hit or to wound?

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

I roll to hit with zero shots (as I'm not told I have any). I then roll To Wound with all the shots that hit (none did so).
I then roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership (as Psychic Shriek requires me to do) and apply that many wounds to the unit. These wounds ignore armor and cover saves.

What rule did I break?

If a shooting attack does not specify multiple shots it is understood as one shot, per the rules.

There is literally no rule that says that. Ever. You've invented that.

Spoiler:

Number of Shots
Some shooting weapons fire multiple shots. Where this is the case, the number of shots a
weapon fires is noted after its type.

Spoiler:

ROLL TO HIT
To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a D6 for each shot that is in range.
Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more
than once

Zero is not a vaild option. If it's unstated, it's taken to be one.

Cite the underlined. Neither of the rules you quoted say that.
Also, neither say that 0 is not a possible option. Indeed - JnixDragon was arguing vehemently that 0 is a valid option at all times. It only works here because we're told (in the first rule you quoted) that the number of shots a weapon fires is noted after its type. And the second rule you quoted doesn't change that.

Those rules are about weapons. Is PS a shooting weapon? This has already been pointed out to you so please don't post intentional lies it does not help the discussion.

Gravmyr wrote:
Look at a witchfire power that has a profile. The psychic rules that keep being brought up tell you to resolve the power. What about the witchfire powers with a profile tell you to roll to hit or to wound?

The fact that they have a number of shots listed, and that there are rules governing turning shots into hits into wounds.

 FlingitNow wrote:

col_impact wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
@rigeld:

Spoiler:

5. Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the
target.

You are not permitted to skip this step. If you don't roll to wound (or provide a profile that says "instead of a roll to wound") you do not wound the target.

AH, you still seem to believe that wounds MUST have a to wound previously for them to happen. That is if course false. See perils, for an example.

Step 5 resolves- we have no hits, and even if we have a hit we have no profile to roll against, so cannot roll to-wound anyway.

I'll go ahead and resolve the power according to its entry, as actual rules tell me to do. You can play made up rules if you wish.

You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

We agree you can't resolve steps 4 & 5. So does the game stop there or does it continue with what we can resolve?

To resolve it you have to add "Instead of a roll to wound . . ." so that you get past step 5 for successful hits in step 4.

col_impact wrote:
To resolve it you have to add "Instead of a roll to wound . . ." so that you get past step 5 for successful hits in step 4.

That's an incorrect statement and again, making up rules. At least you've admitted you're making up rules ("have to add" == making up).

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Psychic Shriek is witchfire, a shooting attack, so step 5 is required. Please show me where in the rules you are allowed to skip this step.

Also, please show in the rules where you are allowed to auto-hit.

Considering neither of the things you're asking for are things I've asserted, no - I won't show them.
Neither are required.

You are required to resolve as witchfire.

Yes, and we have done. We don't have a profile, cannot assume one shot. You have no rules, still.

Gravmyr wrote:
Look at a witchfire power that has a profile. The psychic rules that keep being brought up tell you to resolve the power. What about the witchfire powers with a profile tell you to roll to hit or to wound?

What do they do if you're not using the shooting rules to resolve their shooting attack?

Psychic Shriek has an effect that is defined and is nothing to do with to hit and to wound rolls. What do you think smite does?

We have rules for weapons with profiles. Can you give me rules quotes for psychic powers and resolution of them that have a profile?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The shooting rules are specifically worded for weapons.

Gravmyr wrote:
We have rules for weapons with profiles. Can you give me rules quotes for psychic powers and resolution of them that have a profile?

We have rules for shooting attacks with profiles. Witchfires are explicitly shooting attacks.

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
You cannot resolve the power then. You are required to resolve as witchfire, so indicate how you resolve steps 4 and 5.

I roll to hit with zero shots (as I'm not told I have any). I then roll To Wound with all the shots that hit (none did so).
I then roll 3d6 and subtract the target's Leadership (as Psychic Shriek requires me to do) and apply that many wounds to the unit. These wounds ignore armor and cover saves.

What rule did I break?

If a shooting attack does not specify multiple shots it is understood as one shot, per the rules.

There is literally no rule that says that. Ever. You've invented that.

Spoiler:

Number of Shots
Some shooting weapons fire multiple shots. Where this is the case, the number of shots a
weapon fires is noted after its type.

Spoiler:

ROLL TO HIT
To determine if the firing model has hit its target, roll a D6 for each shot that is in range.
Most models only get to fire one shot, however, some weapons are capable of firing more
than once

Zero is not a vaild option. If it's unstated, it's taken to be one.

Cite the underlined. Neither of the rules you quoted say that.
Also, neither say that 0 is not a possible option. Indeed - JnixDragon was arguing vehemently that 0 is a valid option at all times. It only works here because we're told (in the first rule you quoted) that the number of shots a weapon fires is noted after its type. And the second rule you quoted doesn't change that.

If the type is mentioned and no number follows the number is assumed to be 1, per the rules above. A shooting attack with zero shots is not a vaild option. Please show me an example of that.

col_impact wrote:
If the type is mentioned and no number follows the number is assumed to be 1, per the rules above. A shooting attack with zero shots is not a vaild option. Please show me an example of that.

The underlined is not actually in any of the rules above.
And I'd love for you to show me the profile that says Psychic Shriek is an Assault type weapon.

To resolve it you have to add "Instead of a roll to wound . . ." so that you get past step 5 for successful hits in step 4.

No that is making rules up. As we can't resolve steps 4 or 5 what happens does the game stop or do we carry on playing? We're talking RaW here not your made up rules.

Another question that must have the SAME answer is: If I cast Enfeeble on a vehicle does the game stop because I can't resolve the -1T or do we carry on playing?