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Hey all!

I like to think my 40k knowledge is pretty solid, but I'm very, very shaky on the Adeptus Sororitas. I'm in the process of putting together my first army - a Freeblade Knight company, with Sisters allies. Why? Because the models are awesome, leave me alone. In any case, I have to have a solid fluff and backstory for my army, and while I've got it covered for the knight company - I really have no idea why Sisters would partner up with Freeblades.

So my question to all of those more knowledgeable than I is..... Are there any non-Imperial-aligned Sisters? Are there 'renegade'/Exodite groups of sisters that go off on some holy crusade that the Ecclesiarchy isn't a part of? I realize that this question may not have a solid answer, I would have to come up with some headcanon to make it work. I'm just curious if there's any canon way to explain why a small contingent of Sisters would be working in conjunction with Freeblades.

Cheers! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
- After reading into the wiki some, I've read that the Orders Hospitaller are all about providing 'relief work', so to speak, and assisting and healing the poor and sick. Part of the fluff for my Freeblade Lance is that, by being Imperial Pariahs, they grant sanctuary to many refugees and exodites. That could be a possible route as well for them to have sisters working with them, maybe?

Unfortunately, I think Sisters are pretty rigid in their faith and loyalty to the Emperor. There aren't any "mercenary" Sisters.

I think the only time you'll find Sisters that aren't loyal to the Imperium, it's because they've been twisted and tainted by Chaos, against their will.

The only Renegade Sister in Canon is Ephrael Stern. There's also Mirael Sabbathiel who fell to Chaos and the Order she corrupted for Slaanesh.

An order of Sisters under the command of an Inquisitor could Ally with Freeblades, but if he pushed it too much they'd execute him for suspected Heresy.

Hmm....This is going to be fairly difficult to work out, fluffwise, I see. Ephrael Stern is an interesting deal though, since she's a non-chaos renegade. Perhaps a minor Order of Sisters that was framed/marked for death by the inquisition would have reason to ally with freeblades, without being part of the Ruinous powers? An order being directed by an inquisitor is an interesting idea, as well.

As long as the Freeblade Company is doing the work of the Emperor in some way the sisters might stay to help. Capturing renegade worlds, taking vengeance on heretics that killed a Cardinal (and his congregation), squashing a mutant uprising before the world is lost...

What you need to think about is why the sisters agreed to come along to begin with. Did the Knight save a shrine world or a high-ranked priest? Did he recover a religious artifact and turn it over to the Ecclesiarchy? Did he perhaps show up to rescue the poor people caught between a Chaos insurrection and the sisters responding to it? If he was heroic enough (and pious enough) an Order of the sisterhood might just detail a force to aid him in his next few conquests, for the greater glory of the Emperor.

It could work if your Freeblade was a Living Saint or otherwise did something to earn an Ecclesiarchy bodyguard... or he could be a technical Freeblade but actually be a missionary who has a Knight suit for some reason. ^^;

Hmmm.... so it sounds like my Freeblade Company needs to have done something that would earn some respect from either the Ecclesiarchy, an Inquisitor, or a Sister's Order themselves.

Since I plan on creating a new order (just a minor one, a successor to a major order), I think that gives me enough to make this work! Thank you for the help!

Also, the Sisterhood is no longer the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus, they now just "work closely" with the Inquisition.

The idea of an Order "going rogue" is pretty much anathema to the Sisters. Everything happens as the Emperor ordains it, so if they were going to be killed by the Inquisition, then He has a reason for that happening. You might could justify a small handful of Sisters who manage to talk themselves into it, but an entire Order? Not likely.

 SweaterKittens wrote:
Hmmm.... so it sounds like my Freeblade Company needs to have done something that would earn some respect from either the Ecclesiarchy, an Inquisitor, or a Sister's Order themselves.

Since I plan on creating a new order (just a minor one, a successor to a major order), I think that gives me enough to make this work! Thank you for the help!

Pretty much, but keep in mind that the instant the Freeblade acts against Imperial interests or shows signs of heresy, he'll be executed by his own honour guard.

Why must the sisters partner with a freeblade? Why can't the freeblade be working for the Ecclesiarchy?

The freeblade can easily be the last of a house that was indebted to the Adeptus Ministorum, and continue to honor this debt even after his house was finished.

The freeblade and a SoB forces can just be part of an Ecclesiarchy military operation. Does the sisters have to follow the freeblade around? That'd make no sense, especially how normally they are stationed to guard eccledisarchy sacred relics/shrines or in a training facility when not in combat. To have a presumably significant number of battle sisters accompany one Freeblade Knight just seem like... a waste of resources.

@Icmiracle: It would certainly be much easier to do it that way, but the issue is that I already have the entire fluff and backstory of the freeblade lance done. Initially, my army was going to be pure knights - but I really wanted to splash some troops in there to mix things up, and I settled on Sisters. So because of the way things have come up, I know have to try to justify some Sisters working with the Freeblades and their already established backstory, as opposed to the other way around.

 SweaterKittens wrote:
@Icmiracle: It would certainly be much easier to do it that way, but the issue is that I already have the entire fluff and backstory of the freeblade lance done. Initially, my army was going to be pure knights - but I really wanted to splash some troops in there to mix things up, and I settled on Sisters. So because of the way things have come up, I know have to try to justify some Sisters working with the Freeblades and their already established backstory, as opposed to the other way around.

Huh, ok; how long do you want the sisterhood attached to the knight? As with all things 40K, this kind of a band of warriors based on an alliance, rather than allegiance will eventually break up; individual members will part ways and do their respected duties eventually, unless the knight and the sisters are under the command of an inquisitor who requested their eternal servitude in the name of the Emperor, and the inquisitor is not an idiot.

But if this is really just a quest thing, consider this typical hero-on-a-quest back story:

The freeblade is on a mission - to resolve an ancestral feud, to extract a personal revenge, to fulfill a bounty, or just for an oath he took, regardless this brought him to [planet whose name you shall fill in]. His party followed the his target's trail to [Monastery/shrine whose name and location you shall fill in]; the knight found the sacred place desecrated, its attendees slaughtered. Something then happened, he might have investigated the ruins and found, or have been found, a few squads of vengeful sisters of battle.

Some hostile confrontation took place, shots almost fired but prevented by the knight/cannoness/palatine (depending on how large of a sisters of battle force you use). The knight plead for his innocence in the monastery's desecration; furthermore he had reason to believe the crime was committed by his adversary.

As the sisters were tasked in bringing down the culprit, and signs of battle showed that their enemies might have been more dangerous than previously thought, they formed an uneasy alliance. (I'd like to add that according 6E Codex: Sister of Battle, "An Order’s warriors rarely fight together as a single unit, but instead are commonly spread throughout the galaxy, guarding various shrine worlds, prosecuting Wars of Faith and waging other battles." So you can hand wave small sister of battle forces linger with Knight's party because of a mission and difficulties in communication, it's the warp stuff, after all)

From then on they trekked across the sector/segmentum/galaxy, seeking revenge. Along the ways they found many enemies of the IoM and intervened in the hopes that they will lead them to their targets.

No body said any of the battles resulted in promising leads, so this alliance can drag out for quite some time. Also depending on the mission, the sisters may get reinforcements (as well as being recalled I suppose, but you can just hand-wave it, saying they are from a minor order whose covenant is relatively safe from major threats, so the group accompany the knights can free to roam, I guess)

Could be part of an ongoing-War of Faith. Especially if the Sisters are a member of an Order Sabine, which is tasked with spreading the word of the Emperor into Wildspace and previously-unexplored regions with the Missionarius Galaxia.

In terms of fluff, it would be extremely hard to have a Sisters Order belonging to a Knight freeblade company.

Having part / a whole small Order working WITH the knights is easy and the story can be many.

Reason A that the Sisters are Guarding the Knight Seneshal.
Reason B that the Knights and sisters have Objective C
Reason D that Knights decided to help Sisters with E

You can keep going.

Having "personal Sisters bodyguards" is easy.
But having "personal sister slaves" would be pretty much impossible.

 Psienesis wrote:
Could be part of an ongoing-War of Faith. Especially if the Sisters are a member of an Order Sabine, which is tasked with spreading the word of the Emperor into Wildspace and previously-unexplored regions with the Missionarius Galaxia.

Sabines don't really work like that though. They're more the traditional "live with the heathens for a few years and convert them over time" type.

And sometimes, you have to demonstrate why the God-Emperor is the better god.... because He delivers twenty-meter-tall adamantium killing machines, and their pagan wotzit doesn't.

Let me just say that I am continually impressed by the amount of great feedback I get from this community. Hot damn.

More on topic, I want to be clear that I don't plan on them being... *ahem* 'Sister-slaves*, I just needed a reason for them to be working together. Since my Knight company is generally good, although not Imperium-aligned, I think that the most likely reason they would be working together would be, as many have stated, a common goal that facilitates an alliance. And in the spirit of GW's eternal status quo, that alliance can be 'temporary' but for the sake of my army, it can last as long as I need it to.

Without going into too great a detail (There's another time and place for that) - I will be creating a very minor order - Yet to be named, but an Order Militant/Hospitaller, that will have the common goal of assisting refugees and threatened worlds in the darker corners of space. As my Knight Company does the same, they will, with the help of a flexible Cannoness/Sister Superior, be able to meet somewhere in the middle and forge a tentative alliance. While the Knights work separate from the imperium, the Sisters' leader will interpret his general good will and positive actions as "the Emperor's Will", although not in the traditional sense.

There is of course plenty of fleshing out to do, but that's the jist of it. I think that's a good jumping-off point to have successful yet cautious alliance between the Knight company and the minor order of Sisters. If any of you are interested, I will be posting pictures and a /very/ detailed backstory and fluff in the future, when the army is complete.

 SweaterKittens wrote:
While the Knights work separate from the imperium

I am not exactly sure what you mean with this. Most part of the Imperium work separately from the other parts of the Imperium. The closest you can get from obeying “the Imperium” is being ordered around by the Administratum, like the Imperial Guard and Navy. But the Sororitas, Astartes and Knights do not obey the Administratum anyway, and are very independent by default, but considered completely part of the Imperium. So basically, taking this into account, “the Imperium” mostly mean “humans that believe in the Emperor”. Do you want Knights that do not recognize the Emperor?

The sisters in the lastest Spess Wolf novels seemed content to follow along with whatever the cardinal in charge of their crusade told them to. And, to be fair, that's pretty much par for the course with religious fanatics. So if you work out some reason for there to be an extremist, wayward Ecclesiarchal leader perhaps having employed your Freeblades, you should be fine.

Yeah, the incident where a rogue cardinal took three companies of Sisters to lay siege to Fenris sadly shows us that their judgement of when a priest has gone off his rocker isn't always entirely sound. :/

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yeah, the incident where a rogue cardinal took three companies of Sisters to lay siege to Fenris sadly shows us that their judgement of when a priest has gone off his rocker isn't always entirely sound. :/

Judging from the results, you ain't wrong. Also, trench diggin'

... though the Ecclesiarchy isn't wrong when it comes to Fenris. They really are a bunch of pagan savages.

However, a Knight House that operates apart from the Imperium is going to be in a world of hurt when they need a replacement part for a Knight. If they're not on good terms with the Imperium, they're probably not on good terms with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and spare Knight parts aren't generally something one can scrounge up at a flea market. There's also all the training their ground-crews will require in order to maintain the Knight in the first place.

 Psienesis wrote:
... though the Ecclesiarchy isn't wrong when it comes to Fenris. They really are a bunch of pagan savages.

However, a Knight House that operates apart from the Imperium is going to be in a world of hurt when they need a replacement part for a Knight. If they're not on good terms with the Imperium, they're probably not on good terms with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and spare Knight parts aren't generally something one can scrounge up at a flea market. There's also all the training their ground-crews will require in order to maintain the Knight in the first place.

The chapter cults of Space Marine Chapter really don't concern the Ecclesiarchy; they can well leave the blood drinking rituals of the blood angels alone, and the Technophile Iron Hands to themselves, they can even leave the Salamanders alone in spite of their Promethean cult's non-god-emperor view just because their pyromaniacs fits well with the Sisters of Battle. You should really get over this "heathens must die!" mentality -- I don't see the Emperor striking the Space Wolves down, so shoo, go away.

As for the maintenance, from I've gathered, they freeblade either die in their journey or finds a new master, so until then each knight is left to their own devices, and have to make the most of anything they can find to repair their armor. It's probably an over-sight, but just assume freeblades do odd jobs for planetary governors, AdMech Magos, or trade lords in exchange for materials and parts he and his servants can make use of.

But if a Knight is not on good terms with the Imperium, doesn't necessary mean he is not hot with the AdMechs; in fact, Mechanicus Knights and Imperial Knights are pretty distinct in their conducts. While the Imperial Knight Worlds pay tithe to the Imperium, and has to trade with the AdMech for parts, Mechanicus Knight worlds are directly under the control of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and their knights serve the AdMech directly. The Sacristans have a double purpose of manipulating non-AdMech Knights. It can well be true that a Knight is furthering the AdMech or just a Techpriests' goal but against that of the Imperium's.

@Hybrid Son: I didn't consider the fact that there is a large number of humans (including Knightly houses) that work technically separate from the Imperium. What I was meaning to say, was that my Knight Lance isn't on good terms with the IoM. The Knight-Captain of the lance is a military defector, and there is at least one xeno in the lance itself. However, like you said, most Knights work fairly independently anyway, which may solve the question I was battling with: "Why aren't these guys all getting purged right now".

@Psienesis and Icmiracle: Parts is something I hadn't given great thought to, so thank you for bringing it up. I have the issue of ground teams sorted out, but I will need to come up with a way for them to get replacement parts and munitions. I'm wondering if the alliance with the minor Sisters order could facilitate that. Someone on better terms with everyone might be able to order parts with a little less scrutiny. I also plan on incorporating SisterSydney's Knight Angelus, from her Sisters Fandex into my army (Fandex found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/626986.page#7428876). Since the Sisters have their own knight in this case, it wouldn't be strange for them to be ordering parts and munitions occasionally.

I would also assume that plenty of the missions the Knight Lance would embark on would involve getting replacement parts or munitions from contested Manufactorums and the like.

On another note, could anyone shed some light on the Ecclesiarchial/Sisters rankings? I'm not very clear on what position a Cardinal holds compared to, say, a Cannoness.

I maintain that the ranks of the Ecclesiarchy and the Adepta Sororitas are technically incomparable since they are two different bodies of organizations. But the Sisters of battle frequently lead the Wars of Faith (which is done through Ecclesiarchy commands), it is therefore reasonable to assume under such situations, the sister's forces obey Ecclesiarchy high command. Some of them also act as bodyguards of important Ecclesiarchy members, so in those circumstances they will mostly follow orders from the Ecclesiarchy.

For the Ecclesiarchy, you won't need to worry about the Ecclesiarch since he's the pope and is on Terra; I'd say you will deal with Cardinals frequently since each of them typically occupies one Ecclesiarchy world, but a Cardinal will unlikely be part of a fighting arm. Ministorum priests can go about their own missions of purging filthy heathens who are clearly filthy and heathens, they can lead forces of sisters of battle if their buffs are needed. You can probably let the Knight get on good terms with a Cardinal or a priest so that he will "persuade" a sisters of battle forces to "escort" the knight on his mission.

For the Sororitas you won't be worrying about the Abbess since she's been gone for a while now. Prioresses are off limits, too, there are only two of them, and one is on Terra, and another is on Ophelia VII.
You will more likely want to use members below Canoness (Superior), who is the head of an order:

Here's where things start to get murky: lexicanum says that under Canoness Superior are lesser Canonesses who commands forces of different sizes. That was based on the 2nd edition codex; according to the 6th edition codex, it puts Sister Superiors directly under the Canoness (Superior) of the Orders Militant, and each Sister Superior are responsible for her squad (Codex: Sisters of Battle, Battle Sisters, 6 Edition, digital). So either the Sister Superiors are the lesser Caononesses, or they are now just Sister Superiors.

And since a sister superiors are leaders of their individual squads, it's unlikely multiple squads would follow one sister superior. I reckon it's probably possible for the sister superiors to pull favors from time to time, but it'll be pretty darn impossible if a person outside of the Ecclesiarch can get a sizable force the sisters of battle without the Canoness' approval.

The Palatine was introduced in 3rd edition to take over from the Sister Superior as a force commander. Prior to that, the Superior was able to command multiple squads - but then, so was a Space Marine Sergeant.

The rank system for the Sororitas seems to go

Novice -> Battle Sister -> Sister Superior -> Veteran Superior/Celestian -> Celestian Superior -> Palatine/Lesser Canoness -> Canoness -> Prioress -> Abbess, with Seraphim standing outside the command structure.

I have a similar issue that I dealt with by the following -

I have a GK, Sisters (order of the sacred rose - I got into sisters after the soulstorm videogame years ago lol and I can't help it >.< , and Space Marines army that I painted as deathwatch colors (I'm too lazy to get the right shoulder pads so they are mostly blackshields)

I also have an adamantium lance formation that I'm still working on that will be painted as one of each color scheme (GK, Order of the Sacred Rose, and Deathwatch)

My fluff reasons are that these knight suits are permanently attached to these institutions through debts of honor as their homeworlds were destroyed by daemons, heretics, and aliens respectively and they are the last of their houses so they now belong as honorary members though technically they are all actually inquisitional henchmen under each specific ordos.

(which means the GK pilot suffers from semi-frequent mindwipes that makes for fun roleplaying when I deploy him as he'd usually greet his allies detachment with interesting quips I'd make up)

(also the sacred rose knight has a female pilot cause all the sons are dead and she's actually held in life support inside the knight due to serious burns she suffered but survived at the hands of heretics - hence she gets the melta cannon - I sorta imagined pyro from teamfortress)

(the deathwatch guy is the straight faced guy that's actually sane and makes quips about how crazy his lance partners seem all the time and how he has never actually seen the other two pilots)

Doesn't everyone talk for their knights during games?!?!?!?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Palatine was introduced in 3rd edition to take over from the Sister Superior as a force commander. Prior to that, the Superior was able to command multiple squads - but then, so was a Space Marine Sergeant.

The rank system for the Sororitas seems to go

Novice -> Battle Sister -> Sister Superior -> Veteran Superior/Celestian -> Celestian Superior -> Palatine/Lesser Canoness -> Canoness -> Prioress -> Abbess, with Seraphim standing outside the command structure.

Alright, but just for reference, the 6e codex says "a(A) Canoness is the overall commander of one of the Orders Militant" (Codex: Sisters of Battle, Canonesses, 6e, digital), she is still under Prioress. However, no lower ranking canonesses are mentioned (i.e. Palatine, commander Canonesses). Preceptories are mentioned but not preceptors.

Furthermore, "Each squad of Battle Sisters is led by a Sister Superior. These warriors are ranked beneath the Canonesses of the Orders Militant and each is directly responsible for the conduct and training of her squad." (Codex: Sisters of Battle, Battle Sisters, 6e, digital), and "The most experienced Sisters Superior also assist the Canoness in the running of the Order, and many have specific duties and associated titles, including the Abbess of the Armoury, the Mistress of Recruits, ...". So I had to assume no one else is directly below the Canonesses other than the sister superiors since no one else is stated to hold offices.

Also the 6e codex didn't give the Celestians any offices, they are just an elite body of warriors: 'Celestians are the finest and noblest warriors of their Order – inspirational figures whose refusal to yield, even in the direst of situations, is legendary". (Codex: Sisters of Battle, Celestians, 6e) and "These elite warriors are deployed together in squads where their superior experience and skill at arms can turn the tide of battle." (Celestians). Since the sister superiors hold actual offices I had to conclude that the sister superiors have a much larger part in decision making in their Orders.

This all sounds awesome. I'm just worried about the xeno that's in Sweater Kitten's lance -- the Sisters are not known for tolerance, so you have to come up with a good reason for them not to exterminate him/her/it. (Or just say "an Inquisitor did it.")

@Icmiracle: I get what you're saying; I was asking about Ecclesiarchial/Sisters ranks only because it seems that there's a clear chain of command between the two organizations, even if they're separate. That is, a Cardinal or a Priest has authority over a Cannoness even though the Cannoness is not part of the Ecclesiarchy.

@Furyou/Icmiracle: Regarding ranks, I think the best 'rank' to use in my situation would be having a priest deal with my Knight's Lance. While a Cannoness leads her Order, I'm getting that she still has to work pretty rigidly within the confines of whatever task is assigned to her and her order - while on the other hand, Priests and Cardinals are free to faff about amongst the stars on whatever holy crusade they currently feel like embarking on. Correct me if I'm wrong. Obviously they're not free to do /whatever/ they want, but it sounds as though they have to authority to choose their own tasks.

@sudojoe: That's very cool, I always have a lot of respect for someone who clearly put a lot of effort into the backstory behind their army. I'd love to see some pictures if you've taken any!

@Sistersydney: Thank you! And regarding the xeno, I've been thinking about that quite a bit, as it would definitely cause an issue. My thought is that the xeno in question will just have to avoid contact with the Sisters in person. Luckily, as a Knight pilot (and one of several in a lance that numbers six pilots), that shouldn't be too difficult. My Knight-Captain would likely be one of the few who had direct dealings with the Sisters - the other knights would have no real reason to interact with them outside of a combat situation.


So I've narrowed it down a Minor Order, led by a Priest, assisting/allying with the Knight Lance due a unified objective in which both parties would benefit from working together. The Sisters would have access to the considerable firepower that knights bring to the table, while the knights would have access to parts and equipment for the knights, supplies and manpower, as well as a good reason not to get exterminated. The aforementioned priest will be a Uriah Jacobus counts-as (Obviously not Jacobus himself, just a named character that uses his statline) using this lovely model from Raging Heroes http://www.ragingheroes.com/collections/tgg/products/tarja-yaga-soul-weaver-kst. Obviously this is the TL;DR of the backstory, but does that seem sturdy enough from a fluff standpoint?