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 jasper76 wrote:
Anyone else get the impression that they are just running out of ideas for what to do with the Dragon Queen while the stuff in Esteros happens? She's literally right back to where she started from in Season 1.

Na, shes not. This time she has an extremely dangerous adult dragon to enforce her will on the Dothraki Khalasar. When Drogon arrives (which we know he will, because he was in the trailer flying above the horde), she'll get him to burn the Khal so she can take over the Khalasar.

The whole point of her going back to the Dothraki is about her going back to her roots and remembering who she is destined to be - a Dothraki conqueror, not the Queen of an unruly and resentful Esterosi city. As far as I'm concerned when she returns to Meereen with a Dothraki Khalasar at her back, she should raze the city to the ground along with all the Great Masters and load her Unsullied, Dothraki and freedmen followers into her ships.

Hint: I'm not referring to the Meereenese navy.

I think that would be a backwards step for Danny, not forward. Her problem at the moment is that she's far to idealistic to make an effective ruler, she doesn't understand "the people" nearly as well as she things she does, and most importantly she is a horrible problem solver.

Think about it. Thus far, how has Danny solved, literally, all of her problems? Raw unyielding force. The craftiest think she did was tricking some guys into selling her an army for a Dragon she never intended to let them keep, something she could only get away with because she had dragons. Danny, unlike Tyrion or Spider or Little Finger or Tywin has no idea how to solve a problem that doesn't involve picking it up and smashing it to pieces (which was punctuated on the entire of last season). She's even bee saved some trouble by raw luck.

Danny needs to learn how to operate when she has no real power, and that's what I think part of this season will be about Just look at how she tries negotiating with the Khal. She tried offering him material to get what she wanted, and it didn't work. Her normal fallback at that point is to send in an army to take what she wants, except she doesn't have one.

So what? She doesn't want to rule Essos, Westeros is where she belongs and wishes to return. Essos and Westeros are completely different cultures. Understanding the people of Essos won't help her to understand and rule Westeros.

And its all a moot point anyway. There won't be anything left for her to rule in Westeros soon enough.

The whole reason she stayed in that giant pyramid at the end of season 4 was to learn how to be an effective ruler. Season five spent her entire plot showing how ineffective she is. It has nothing to do with wanting to rule Essos or anywhere else. It's that Danny is a bad ruler, and a big part of that is that she doesn't really rule. She just tells people to do something, forces them when they refuse, and if neither of those things work she has no idea what to do (and starts taking stupid advice ).

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
So what? She doesn't want to rule Essos, Westeros is where she belongs and wishes to return. Essos and Westeros are completely different cultures. Understanding the people of Essos won't help her to understand and rule Westeros.

And its all a moot point anyway. There won't be anything left for her to rule in Westeros soon enough.

Fortunately, the writer has provided the protagonist with the only Air Force available to come in and save the day at the end.

Which is probably my main beef with the show. No matter what happens in Westeros, in the end, the dragons are going to come in, clean house, and the Dragon Queen reigns happily ever after. This has been obvious since the first season. The only mystery really is if she will marry John Snow or the crippled Stark.

 LordofHats wrote:
The whole reason she stayed in that giant pyramid at the end of season 4 was to learn how to be an effective ruler. Season five spent her entire plot showing how ineffective she is. It has nothing to do with wanting to rule Essos or anywhere else. It's that Danny is a bad ruler, and a big part of that is that she doesn't really rule. She just tells people to do something, forces them when they refuse, and if neither of those things work she has no idea what to do (and starts taking stupid advice ).

Which is all irrelevant anyway. She's not going to have anything to rule over soon enough unless she arrives before the Long Night. What Westeros needs right now is an Aegon the Conqueror, not a Jaehaerys the Wise. She's got Tyrion to compensate for her weaknesses in that regard.

What Westeros needs right now is an Aegon the Conqueror.

Except Aegon knew that conquering and ruling weren't the same thing. Given that the series keep rounding back to poking fun at the notion of "might makes right" is nonsense, and Danny's entire plot in season 5 was about reiterating that, I highly doubt the plot is going to circle back, and have her drop 5 seasons of character development to just become exactly what the entire series states is the problem with this world.

I doubt we'll get a nice clean happy ending where everything is hunky dory, but I doubt we'll see the series end with Danny becoming Robert Baratheon 2.0. If the series were just about the Long Night, you might be on to something, but there's about a bajillion other plot lines running, and there's no reason to believe right now that the Long Night will have an effect on all of them. Most certainly Danny's is probably the plot line most removed from all of that. She might never make it to Westeros. For all we know she'll retire into being a hermit with some kick ass pets and force Tyrion to take up the role of saving the world.

 jasper76 wrote:

Which is probably my main beef with the show. No matter what happens in Westeros, in the end, the dragons are going to come in, clean house, and the Dragon Queen reigns happily ever after. This has been obvious since the first season. The only mystery really is if she will marry John Snow or the crippled Stark.

Glad you have that all figured out.

There are other possibilities, you know. Who's to say that Daenerys isn't Nissa Nissa?

I found the whole episode to be totally Meh.

They need to speed things up.

Kill the Sparrows already. The whole story line is tired. It served it's purpose. Move on.

I hated that Danny is now with the Dothraki again. Now she has to live with all the other widows. So? Get your dragons and start lighting stuff on fire already.

Arya Stark is now going to be Daredevil. Really?

Reek suddenly grows a pair after losing them. If he goes anywhere near anyone that remembers what a traitor he is, he's dead.

The Queen is still imprisoned and the King can't help her and her Brother? Why is this such a big deal. Kill the Sparrows already. See above.

In a stampede of hoof prints in a huge field, a single ring was found? That's some kind of coincidence!

Oberyn was the best part of the whole Dorne storyline. He's dead. Dorne now sucks.

Brienne finally rescues a Stark!!! Hooray!! Now get her to safety. There is no where to take her where she can be safe now. Hmph.

Where the hell is Bran already??

Jon Snow is DEAD! D-E-A-D.

Malysandra looks way better naked young than old. No real surprise there. She's old and defeated. Kill her already.

Varys and Tyrion walking in the city. No one notices this and kills them? Their transportation is now up in flames. Guess they are stuck there until the dragon and Danny return to get them.

 gorgon wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

Which is probably my main beef with the show. No matter what happens in Westeros, in the end, the dragons are going to come in, clean house, and the Dragon Queen reigns happily ever after. This has been obvious since the first season. The only mystery really is if she will marry John Snow or the crippled Stark.

Glad you have that all figured out.

There are other possibilities, you know. Who's to say that Daenerys isn't Nissa Nissa?

Yeah, she could marry the Imp, she could remain single, she could hump a tree. Just make with the dragons and ice zombies already!

My thoughts in red

Mdlbuildr wrote:
I found the whole episode to be totally Meh.

They need to speed things up.

Kill the Sparrows already. The whole story line is tired. It served it's purpose. Move on.

I hated that Danny is now with the Dothraki again. Now she has to live with all the other widows. So? Get your dragons and start lighting stuff on fire already. That'll come soon no doubt, but being a Dosh Khaleen doesn't sound like fun at all

Arya Stark is now going to be Daredevil. Really? Just because she's blind doesn't instantly make her Daredevil. If she's going to be a badass assassin type, then you would assume her senses and skills have to be pretty sharp

Reek suddenly grows a pair after losing them. If he goes anywhere near anyone that remembers what a traitor he is, he's dead. I think he's earned more than enough punishment. Theon might come out ok since he saved Sansa

The Queen is still imprisoned and the King can't help her and her Brother? Why is this such a big deal. Kill the Sparrows already. See above. States it pretty clearly. Tommen is not a douchey king like Joffrey was. He's a pretty soft touch

In a stampede of hoof prints in a huge field, a single ring was found? That's some kind of coincidence! They were galloping around Dany


Oberyn was the best part of the whole Dorne storyline. He's dead. Dorne now sucks. Probably going to happen in the books. Ellaria Sand is pretty peed off about Oberyn. Ellaria becomes ruler of Dorne, ala Nymeria

Brienne finally rescues a Stark!!! Hooray!! Now get her to safety. There is no where to take her where she can be safe now. Hmph. They could end up meeting up with Rickon and Osha at Last Hearth (House Umber)

Where the hell is Bran already?? Learning from the 3 Eyed Raven

Jon Snow is DEAD! D-E-A-D. Probably Azor Ahai and comes back

Malysandra looks way better naked young than old. No real surprise there. She's old and defeated. Kill her already. Melisandre is too interesting a character. I like her. Though I do wonder if she's going to wake up from her nap...

Varys and Tyrion walking in the city. No one notices this and kills them? Their transportation is now up in flames. Guess they are stuck there until the dragon and Danny return to get them.

Arya is blind and she is being trained with a staff by getting beaten up. If you read the Daredevil comics that's exactly how Stick started training young Matt Murdock. And when i say training him, I mean beating the crap out of him so he can learn by trial and error. Just like Arya. So yeah, Daredevil.

Tommen is letting his Queen rot in prison. Soft touch or coward? Get in there and get her the feth out!

I suspect she'll end up going the same was as in the books, which isn't very Daredevil.

I will actually agree with Mdbuilder on the whole High Sparrow bit. I get that Cersei made the really stupid decision of letting a religious fanatic have an army and sweeping power, but I'm not sure I really buy that he's been allowed to go this far. That thread kind of rises up suddenly in both versions of the story, and the guy gets absurdly ballsy in a way I've never bought.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Maybe the amulet will play a part in bringing Jon back. Maybe instead of taking a tremendous toll, it gives you an unnaturally long life, and somehow Mellisandre will use it with her powers to ressurrect him? She seemed awful thoughtful looking at him lying there.

I also want to see a combat with the newest "addition" to the Kingsguard.....lets show how giant armored zombies make great bodyguards!

You didn't see the trailer then? Cersei is definitely going to have Clegane murder the Sparrows lol.

Oh definitely. That's absolutely why I mentioned it!

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Arya is blind and she is being trained with a staff by getting beaten up. If you read the Daredevil comics that's exactly how Stick started training young Matt Murdock. And when i say training him, I mean beating the crap out of him so he can learn by trial and error. Just like Arya. So yeah, Daredevil.

Does Daredevil circumvent his blindness by

No, he does not.

My guess is they will be going to house Umber as they were casting to replace the actor for lord umber from season 1/2 I believe.

Oh ffs. That actor was awesome, they should not recast him.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Mdlbuildr wrote:
Arya is blind and she is being trained with a staff by getting beaten up. If you read the Daredevil comics that's exactly how Stick started training young Matt Murdock. And when i say training him, I mean beating the crap out of him so he can learn by trial and error. Just like Arya. So yeah, Daredevil.

Does Daredevil circumvent his blindness by

Spoiler:

warging into a cat and seeing through its eyes?

No, he does not.

I wouldn't know that since I didn't read the books. I am basing my opinion on what I know I saw on Sunday night's episode. Sarcasm much?

 LordofHats wrote:
I suspect she'll end up going the same was as in the books, which isn't very Daredevil.

I will actually agree with Mdbuilder on the whole High Sparrow bit. I get that Cersei made the really stupid decision of letting a religious fanatic have an army and sweeping power, but I'm not sure I really buy that he's been allowed to go this far. That thread kind of rises up suddenly in both versions of the story, and the guy gets absurdly ballsy in a way I've never bought.

Religious folks at the top usually go silly with power.

Considering how much the books (and even the TV series) have been portraying people who adhere to prophecies as complete fools willing to futilely wreak havoc and ruin things left and right in order to make their beloved prophecies true, it's amusing to see how easily the fans of the series (and I'm including many, many book readers here) seem to blindly accept said prophecies as if they were truth set on stone.

Even mediocre medieval fantasy stories usually employ prophecies as ironic plot twists that end up screwing everybody following them blindly. I do believe that Martin is quite a step above "average medieval fantasy" level, so to expect less from him would mean giving up on the whole series for me, yet I see so many people convinced that some Azhor Azhai is going to physically appear wielding the true sword of flames, it's mind boggling really.

With D&D however, you never know. They managed to take Dorne and turn it straight into the stereotypical and xenophobic vision of Dorne that other westerosi have in the books. It's like when GW writers pick up original 40k themes and somehow manage to miss the dark humor and whole ironic feel of the story, perhaps only worse. Benioff and Weiss have proven themselves to be quite a lacklustre pair of writers whenever they've strayed from Martin's original plot. Even worse, they've grown bolder and bolder with each season, and while some of the (small) initial changes were understandable, it's got to a point where they seem to be changing and inventing new things on mere whims, just because they can, sometimes even driving themselves into narrative corners while doing so.

Also watched the snow fight scene again and seriously, in such a multi-million production, nobody noticed about the hounds completely disappearing at a certain point?

I do think Azor Azhai is going to appear with a flaming sword and all that jazz.

I don't think that's necessarily going to end up being a good thing for a whole bunch of people.

I don't think that there are very many ways of training a blind person to fight that aren't very daredevil like.

Danny going to her new "home" is likely how she gets her army IMO. If I remember right it is the same city from season 1, so pretty much all the Khals will end up there with her. Drogo will take care of that issue, and she will have her horde.

 Compel wrote:
I do think Azor Azhai is going to appear with a flaming sword and all that jazz.

I don't think that's necessarily going to end up being a good thing for a whole bunch of people.

I think there will be an Azor Ahai, but it won't necessarily end with a victory. Some form of peace treaty is more likely.

 angelofvengeance wrote:


Religious folks at the top usually go silly with power.

Yeah, but no one really seems to be responding to his actions, which is what I find odd. It's just "oh, he's got the queen in prison, nothing to do now but let him do what he wants." It's jarring.

This was a pretty good follow up to their first Game of Thrones Honest Trailer:

 Korinov wrote:
Considering how much the books (and even the TV series) have been portraying people who adhere to prophecies as complete fools willing to futilely wreak havoc and ruin things left and right in order to make their beloved prophecies true, it's amusing to see how easily the fans of the series (and I'm including many, many book readers here) seem to blindly accept said prophecies as if they were truth set on stone.

Even mediocre medieval fantasy stories usually employ prophecies as ironic plot twists that end up screwing everybody following them blindly. I do believe that Martin is quite a step above "average medieval fantasy" level, so to expect less from him would mean giving up on the whole series for me, yet I see so many people convinced that some Azhor Azhai is going to physically appear wielding the true sword of flames, it's mind boggling really.

With D&D however, you never know. They managed to take Dorne and turn it straight into the stereotypical and xenophobic vision of Dorne that other westerosi have in the books. It's like when GW writers pick up original 40k themes and somehow manage to miss the dark humor and whole ironic feel of the story, perhaps only worse. Benioff and Weiss have proven themselves to be quite a lacklustre pair of writers whenever they've strayed from Martin's original plot. Even worse, they've grown bolder and bolder with each season, and while some of the (small) initial changes were understandable, it's got to a point where they seem to be changing and inventing new things on mere whims, just because they can, sometimes even driving themselves into narrative corners while doing so.

Also watched the snow fight scene again and seriously, in such a multi-million production, nobody noticed about the hounds completely disappearing at a certain point?

The show def has issues - the whole Dorne storyline was a waste of a great actor and frankly a waste of screen time but it’s a thousand miles ahead of GRM who has spent hundreds of pages going nowhere and actively trying to avoid progressing the main plot…………he makes up cool things and characters and then screws them up or just forgets about them. People got all excited about lady Stoneheart but she never did anything in the books and has been forgotten whilst he focusses on no-bodies and nothing plotlines.

The North and Wall plotline is the least interesting to me but at least its a bit more coherent and focussed in the show and seems to be going somewhere. The Sansa /Theon / Briene story is actually going somewhere - Sansa doesn't have a story in the books anymore - like lots of people.

Once Dany reached the cities, in the books her storyline was a disaster and GRM abandoned her strengths and increasingly tried to make her weak and irrelevant, the show however stayed much truer to her character and have IMO produced a much more interesting arc.

Tyrion and Varis together is brilliant and we don't have dozens of new Targaryrians turning up from everywhere to waste time and chapters on.

Cersei is a much more interesting character in the show

It was a shame Bron was not in the episode and I am little confused where the prince was killed - was he on the ship at Kings Landing and the usually useless Sand Snakes ninjed aboard?

Virtually all of Melisandre's predictions have been wrong - although she will now probably turn out to be the one who gave Cersei the prediction about her children?

The hounds vanishing was not clever - but I think they felt - no one will care - same as no one cares who the two of them found Sansa and Theon at the right moment - the narrative called for it - so they did

They will almost certainly bring JS back - they kind have to avoid upsetting too many people - be brave if they didn't.

 Mr Morden wrote:
The show def has issues - the whole Dorne storyline was a waste of a great actor and frankly a waste of screen time but it’s a thousand miles ahead of GRM who has spent hundreds of pages going nowhere and actively trying to avoid progressing the main plot…………he makes up cool things and characters and then screws them up or just forgets about them. People got all excited about lady Stoneheart but she never did anything in the books and has been forgotten whilst he focusses on no-bodies and nothing plotlines.

There is no perfect writer and Martin certainly isn't one either. Both Feast and Dance are overweight books where half of the pages are little less than expendable filler. Some storylines have certainly gone nowhere (i.e. Brienne) and I honestly doubt he will manage to finish the series in a truly satisfactory way - if he ever finishes it at all.

That said, he's still a much better writer than Benioff and Weiss. Miles better.

Once Dany reached the cities, in the books her storyline was a disaster and GRM abandoned her strengths and increasingly tried to make her weak and irrelevant, the show however stayed much truer to her character and have IMO produced a much more interesting arc.

Daenerys spent the whole fifth season looking increasingly out of her depth, doing really poor as a ruler and failing to properly adress and/or solve virtually any problem encountered. Meanwhile Selmy died pathetically in one of the worst fight scenes I've ever seen. The Unsullied themselves looked like terrible fighters in all their combat scenes, miserabily failing to take any advantage of their training and equipment while fighting civilians armed with knives. The whole Meereen plotline was a boredom feast littered with "shock" moments of pretty poor narrative value.

Tyrion and Varis together is brilliant and we don't have dozens of new Targaryrians turning up from everywhere to waste time and chapters on.

They are so brilliant together that their dialogues remind us every three/four minutes that Varys is an eunuch. Casually strolling around with no bodyguards in a city beset by what amounts to a civil war was also cool.

It was a shame Bron was not in the episode and I am little confused where the prince was killed - was he on the ship at Kings Landing and the usually useless Sand Snakes ninjed aboard?

The ship was at Kings Landing. The Sand Snakes teleported into it. Knowing they were going to fight in very close quarters, they wisely brought convenient weapons: a spear and a whip. Of course their target, armed with a much more appropiate weapon for that sort of environment (a light sword) also wisely decided to face the whip girl first and offer his back to the spear girl.

Virtually all of Melisandre's predictions have been wrong - although she will now probably turn out to be the one who gave Cersei the prediction about her children?

That should be impossible but when it comes to writing gak up D&D are not to be underestimated.

The hounds vanishing was not clever - but I think they felt - no one will care - same as no one cares who the two of them found Sansa and Theon at the right moment - the narrative called for it - so they did

Insulting their viewers' intelligence is such a clever move on their part.

They will almost certainly bring JS back - they kind have to avoid upsetting too many people - be brave if they didn't.

It's been confirmed he'll be brought back and lead an army against the Boltons.

 Alpharius wrote:
Melisandre (snip)Anyway, I'd still be shocked if she doesn't resurrect Jon somehow - maybe at the price of the rest of her 'vitality'/life...

Wouldn't put it past Martin to read the internet, see just about everyone has figured out the R+L=JSnow thing, and in true Scooby Doo writing have Melisandre slip out of her necklace, take a nap, wear Ghost's collar and glamor herself into JSnow. Yeah they wanted to show she's really old, but are they also showing us a symbolic skin shed now that she fully realizes that the Lord of Light has put her in place to make all her visions come true?

I can see Martin totally claiming he had intended it all along.. And he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those darn kids...

Both Feast and Dance are overweight books where half of the pages are little less than expendable filler. Some storylines have certainly gone nowhere (i.e. Brienne) and I honestly doubt he will manage to finish the series in a truly satisfactory way - if he ever finishes it at all.

Indeed I was so disappointed with these two novels that once I had read them I immediately consigned them to a charity shop - I found especially frustrating the apparently wilful need to stall the plot, introduce numerous "new" and IMO highly unnecessary characters that just waste more time. However I think bumbling around the world with his preferred and frankly often very dull minor characters is the novel he wants to write......

That said, he's still a much better writer than Benioff and Weiss. Miles better.

He can be - I would argue with the last few novels he was not, quite the opposite.

Daenerys spent the whole fifth season looking increasingly out of her depth, doing really poor as a ruler and failing to properly adress and/or solve virtually any problem encountered. Meanwhile Selmy died pathetically in one of the worst fight scenes I've ever seen. The Unsullied themselves looked like terrible fighters in all their combat scenes, miserabily failing to take any advantage of their training and equipment while fighting civilians armed with knives. The whole Meereen plotline was a boredom feast littered with "shock" moments of pretty poor narrative value.

Disagree strongly - in the later books her role is a passive weak willed observer obsessed by her mercenary lover. In the show she retains her own character and whilst she makes mistakes, - being too soft on the Masters in Meereen, locking her dragons away instead of feeding terrorists to them in the arena as part of the "games" that all her supporters wanted.

the Book is shocking bad and tiresome on this storyline.............with varied new Targayrians popping up out of the woodwork to drag the storylines out.

They are so brilliant together that their dialogues remind us every three/four minutes that Varys is an eunuch. Casually strolling around with no bodyguards in a city beset by what amounts to a civil war was also cool.

No sure what to say to this - I find their interactions clever, witty and charming.......one of the best moments for the two of us watching that last epsidoe of the last season was when Tryion heard Varis say "hello old friend"

Compared to the dire circus travelogue we suffer in Dances - Tyrion in the show is actually getting somewhere and not actively avoiding the plot.

The ship was at Kings Landing. The Sand Snakes teleported into it. Knowing they were going to fight in very close quarters, they wisely brought convenient weapons: a spear and a whip. Of course their target, armed with a much more appropiate weapon for that sort of environment (a light sword) also wisely decided to face the whip girl first and offer his back to the spear girl.

Yeah Agreed, this whole plot was full of stupid and trying to hard to have cool female characters - which really really are not.

Insulting their viewers' intelligence is such a clever move on their part.

GRRM spends entire chapters actively plotting to make sure characters nearly meet and then don't - just to troll them as far as I can see...........

Wouldn't put it past Martin to read the internet, see just about everyone has figured out the R+L=JSnow thing, and in true Scooby Doo writing have Melisandre slip out of her necklace, take a nap, wear Ghost's collar and glamor herself into JSnow. Yeah they wanted to show she's really old, but are they also showing us a symbolic skin shed now that she fully realizes that the Lord of Light has put her in place to make all her visions come true?

Quite an interesting plot line....................

 Mr Morden wrote:

Disagree strongly - in the later books her role is a passive weak willed observer obsessed by her mercenary lover. In the show she retains her own character and whilst she makes mistakes, - being too soft on the Masters in Meereen, locking her dragons away instead of feeding terrorists to them in the arena as part of the "games" that all her supporters wanted.

the Book is shocking bad and tiresome on this storyline.............with varied new Targayrians popping up out of the woodwork to drag the storylines out.

She also locks her dragons away in the books, and she does it because she fears she can no longer control them - the books however are ambiguous as to whether Drogon truly killed the shepherd's daughter.

As for being 'too soft' on the Masters... she actually did the worst she could, an arbitrary and random punishment. Which would be somewhat ok if she were able to actually control the city on a tight grip, but she's not. This is something both book and TV series actually agree on: Daenerys' biggest issue is that she's used to solve virtually every problem she faces by applying overwhelming brute force. Even if she also employs some cunning and political maneuvering to achieve her goals, in the end her core strategy is crushing the enemy as hard as she can. This becomes a huge problem when she tries to rule over a conquered city in Meereen, when she faces growing opposition and a shadow war inside her own walls, while her past conquests quickly crumble at reality's onslaught.

Regarding the "varied new Targaryens", there's actually a single one, and it's not clear at this point if he's a real Targaryen or not - like somebody really cares, the only thing that will matter is if he wins or loses at the end.

Daenerys is certainly not one of my favourite characters from the book series, and it would be a nice turn of events if she ends up losing it all in the end - I know it won't happen, but still it would be fun for me. The way she's portrayed in the show is quite confusing to me: she makes more or less the same right guesses and mistakes as in the books, yet he's usually portrayed in a much more sympathetic light - I guess being the strong, independent and empowered female lead has its advantages - as if her own misjudgements and extremely naïve decisions were many times someone else's fault. The actress probably doesn't help, she looks really limited in terms of actual acting talent, her overacting during certain sequences has been dreadful, and all this has got even more ironic after she refused to get naked on camera - understandable considering how gratuite nudity has become at this point, but her naked scenes were usually her best scenes.