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 Alpharius wrote:
I still think that was a fake Shaggydog too...

As do I.

At least, after the death of Summer, I hope to hell it was!

 d-usa wrote:
Arya's is roaming wild in the books.

There are rumors that the upcoming parts of the show that are set in the riverlands also feature a scene in the woods with "a pack of wolves."

 Alpharius wrote:
I absolutely did not like Summer's idiotic 'sacrifice' which was essentially meaningless and useless.

It was very useful, but not in the way you think.

Why did this happen? Why does it seem like this show is hell bent on eliminating the dire wolves? Because it is. I actually have a teeny-tiny bit of insight into it. I’m not friends with Benioff and Weiss, but some of my friends are and they told me this: the dire wolves are the most difficult part of the entire show. The wolves themselves cost a fortune, never do what they’re supposed to, and they have to be digitally re-sized from normal wolf size to dire wolf size. The showrunners know that people love the direwolves, but they’re such a pain in the ass that they shut down production for hours at a time. It takes forever to get the ‘right’ shot of them, a shot that can be resized without people like us groaning about the obvious gakky CGI. So if it feels like the show is out to get the dire wolves it’s because they truly are. If you ask these guys what the toughest part of the show is, it’s not the scripts or the leaks or the locations. It’s the wolves. Period. They’re the biggest pain in the ass and they’ll write them out any time they can, so those of you hoping Arya reunites with Nymeria? Maybe rethink that wish.

 Dr. What wrote:
It could be Coldhands, but it could also be Benjen. He's still out there, probably tracking the movements of the White Walkers.

The only part of the episode that bothered me was the White Walker origin story. While it works alright for the show this way, Martin's original descriptions of them were much grander. They had their own language, religion, and motivations that the show seems to be replacing with "a WMD that went rogue."

I figured Coldhands was Benjen until GRRM debunked it. *shrug* Benjen would make a *lot* of sense given that we've been seeing him in Bran's flashbacks.


So was that dragonglass they used in the WW/Others creation scene? Interesting.

 Ouze wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I absolutely did not like Summer's idiotic 'sacrifice' which was essentially meaningless and useless.

It was very useful, but not in the way you think.

Why did this happen? Why does it seem like this show is hell bent on eliminating the dire wolves? Because it is. I actually have a teeny-tiny bit of insight into it. I’m not friends with Benioff and Weiss, but some of my friends are and they told me this: the dire wolves are the most difficult part of the entire show. The wolves themselves cost a fortune, never do what they’re supposed to, and they have to be digitally re-sized from normal wolf size to dire wolf size. The showrunners know that people love the direwolves, but they’re such a pain in the ass that they shut down production for hours at a time. It takes forever to get the ‘right’ shot of them, a shot that can be resized without people like us groaning about the obvious gakky CGI. So if it feels like the show is out to get the dire wolves it’s because they truly are. If you ask these guys what the toughest part of the show is, it’s not the scripts or the leaks or the locations. It’s the wolves. Period. They’re the biggest pain in the ass and they’ll write them out any time they can, so those of you hoping Arya reunites with Nymeria? Maybe rethink that wish.

I've read that too and I don't really buy it. I mean, I get that the author says he "knows people," but I find it hard to believe that a couple minutes of screen time for a big ass wolf is so much more difficult and cost prohibitive than... I don't know... fething dragons? Giants? An army of zombies?

Potentially there could be an 'uncanny valley' thing going on that means that wolves are more of a concern than any of those.

Alternatively, they could just do perspective tricks, so meh...

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I've read that too and I don't really buy it. I mean, I get that the author says he "knows people," but I find it hard to believe that a couple minutes of screen time for a big ass wolf is so much more difficult and cost prohibitive than... I don't know... fething dragons? Giants? An army of zombies?

You don't need dragons to hit their mark before hitting them with the CGI hammer.

 gorgon wrote:

 Dr. What wrote:
It could be Coldhands, but it could also be Benjen. He's still out there, probably tracking the movements of the White Walkers.

The only part of the episode that bothered me was the White Walker origin story. While it works alright for the show this way, Martin's original descriptions of them were much grander. They had their own language, religion, and motivations that the show seems to be replacing with "a WMD that went rogue."

I figured Coldhands was Benjen until GRRM debunked it. *shrug* Benjen would make a *lot* of sense given that we've been seeing him in Bran's flashbacks.


So was that dragonglass they used in the WW/Others creation scene? Interesting.

It did look like obsidian.

 djones520 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Dr. What wrote:
It could be Coldhands, but it could also be Benjen. He's still out there, probably tracking the movements of the White Walkers.

The only part of the episode that bothered me was the White Walker origin story. While it works alright for the show this way, Martin's original descriptions of them were much grander. They had their own language, religion, and motivations that the show seems to be replacing with "a WMD that went rogue."

I figured Coldhands was Benjen until GRRM debunked it. *shrug* Benjen would make a *lot* of sense given that we've been seeing him in Bran's flashbacks.


So was that dragonglass they used in the WW/Others creation scene? Interesting.

It did look like obsidian.

Yeah, that was definitely obsidian. If it wasn't, than it's some new magical material that looks exactly like obsidian that we haven't been introduced to yet.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
but I find it hard to believe that a couple minutes of screen time for a big ass wolf is so much more difficult and cost prohibitive than... I don't know... fething dragons? Giants? An army of zombies?

Well, the dragons are 100% greenscreen and so you can easily manipulate the way they move to fit whatever you are compositing it into. The zombies are generally actual actors with some CGI touchups, again composited over a scene. The wolves are actual animals, which adds the element of animal handling, along with fur being more difficult to render correctly... I'd call it plausible.

I like them just fine and I'm similarly fine with female empowerment themes when they're handled well, like in Mad Max: Fury Road. What's been going on this season in GoT is slightly clumsy IMO and feels like an attempt to make up for the negativity they brought on last season when they had a leading female character assaulted onscreen -- something that doesn't happen in the books, mind you -- for shock value (i.e. ratings) and not story function.

The female characters have ups and downs - like Theon's Sister - nearly Queen but nope.....................now renegade and a target fro the rest of the iron born.

The rape and other brutality inflicted on Sansa is straight out of GRM - just not on her - but the girl pretending to be her. It fits the show, it fits the character - Ramsey - what exactly did anyone think he was going to do? It also fits the world - some teenage girls given in marriage in the medieval period (which this is closest too) could expect similar treatment. GOT has lots of T and A added in but that particular bit I felt was completely story driven.

The epsiode:

Well Pretty good

Jorah and Dany was "Ah bless" and moves the story along
Tyrion and Varis was good - they may be a bit over their heads for once with the Priestess though and moves the story along
The Iron Born was well done and made sense - also moves the story along
Arya - always fun but still seems to be so divorced from the rest of the story.
Sansa was good, Littlefinger squirming and shifting accents all over the place was amusing. Maybe there wil be a Jon/Sansa romance - we know how GRM likes Siblings getting together. The wildling guy and Briene is great

then there is the Bran bit: Hmmm, a "this your destiny bit..."

Hodor - clever and well executed (so to speak)
The not elves all die - oh well, never mind,
Zombies kill the wolf - well the wolves never do anything of interest in the show or the books anymore - cool idea but as others have ntoed too expensivefor the show and GRM has no idea what to do with them.
Tree guy dies - oh well- he seemed to be just there to give background detail to viewers on stuff that happened "previously in Westros"
Bran and girl stagger into snow fifty ahead of the zombie horde and the White Walkers - so they should be dead - unless the Walkers are (once again) lost in the snow despite having marked Bran and knowing where he is all the time now?

Oh well maybe that plot strand is finished as apart from some exposition served zero purpose - or what did I miss that Bran and co actually achieved?

... most places just crown their king but I guess if you mishear then ....

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I absolutely did not like Summer's idiotic 'sacrifice' which was essentially meaningless and useless.

It was very useful, but not in the way you think.

Why did this happen? Why does it seem like this show is hell bent on eliminating the dire wolves? Because it is. I actually have a teeny-tiny bit of insight into it. I’m not friends with Benioff and Weiss, but some of my friends are and they told me this: the dire wolves are the most difficult part of the entire show. The wolves themselves cost a fortune, never do what they’re supposed to, and they have to be digitally re-sized from normal wolf size to dire wolf size. The showrunners know that people love the direwolves, but they’re such a pain in the ass that they shut down production for hours at a time. It takes forever to get the ‘right’ shot of them, a shot that can be resized without people like us groaning about the obvious gakky CGI. So if it feels like the show is out to get the dire wolves it’s because they truly are. If you ask these guys what the toughest part of the show is, it’s not the scripts or the leaks or the locations. It’s the wolves. Period. They’re the biggest pain in the ass and they’ll write them out any time they can, so those of you hoping Arya reunites with Nymeria? Maybe rethink that wish.

I've read that too and I don't really buy it. I mean, I get that the author says he "knows people," but I find it hard to believe that a couple minutes of screen time for a big ass wolf is so much more difficult and cost prohibitive than... I don't know... fething dragons? Giants? An army of zombies?

Zombies are people in makeup. They do what you tell them to do.
Dragons are CGI. You do what you program it to do.
Giants seem to be animatronic, or a guy who went through movie magic. You can tell him what to do.

Wolves are animals. They don't always do what you want.
They could make them 100% CGI, but that wouldn't look right.

 Ouze wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
but I find it hard to believe that a couple minutes of screen time for a big ass wolf is so much more difficult and cost prohibitive than... I don't know... fething dragons? Giants? An army of zombies?

Well, the dragons are 100% greenscreen and so you can easily manipulate the way they move to fit whatever you are compositing it into. The zombies are generally actual actors with some CGI touchups, again composited over a scene. The wolves are actual animals, which adds the element of animal handling, along with fur being more difficult to render correctly... I'd call it plausible.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I still don't think that's the reason they're killing them. If D&D come out and say that's the reason, than sure, I'll accept it... but until then, every article written about why the direwolves are dying is all from second or third-hand information or just pure speculation.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Oh well maybe that plot strand is finished as apart from some exposition served zero purpose - or what did I miss that Bran and co actually achieved?

Beyond the fact that Bran is the only one dealing with the big picture stuff, it potentially changes everything that the Three Eyed Raven may have been manipulating events up and down the timestream, and now Bran has that ability also. One could make the argument that everything else going on is secondary to Bran's story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I don't disagree with any of that, but I still don't think that's the reason they're killing them. If D&D come out and say that's the reason, than sure, I'll accept it... but until then, every article written about why the direwolves are dying is all from second or third-hand information or just pure speculation.

I think Summer's death was meant to pluck at our heartstrings and nothing more. I wouldn't be surprised if Summer and Shaggydog survive in the novels.

 gorgon wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Oh well maybe that plot strand is finished as apart from some exposition served zero purpose - or what did I miss that Bran and co actually achieved?

Beyond the fact that Bran is the only one dealing with the big picture stuff, it potentially changes everything that the Three Eyed Raven may have been manipulating events up and down the timestream, and now Bran has that ability also. One could make the argument that everything else going on is secondary to Bran's story.

Well maybe - except that Bran is told not to mess with the past........unless that means the three eyed Raven has already done that and cocked things up...........

Of course now GRM / they have tossed time travel into the mix we have the possibility of nothing remaining fixed..............Bran is about to die - so yeah he should go back a few hours and fix it............

However thus far - Bran has not actually achieved anything except completing the Hodor loop - and how he is supposed to escape the walkers/ zombie horde now would be plot shields of stupendeous strength! Unless he travels back and changes the past.............

 Mr Morden wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Oh well maybe that plot strand is finished as apart from some exposition served zero purpose - or what did I miss that Bran and co actually achieved?

Beyond the fact that Bran is the only one dealing with the big picture stuff, it potentially changes everything that the Three Eyed Raven may have been manipulating events up and down the timestream, and now Bran has that ability also. One could make the argument that everything else going on is secondary to Bran's story.

Well maybe - except that Bran is told not to mess with the past........unless that means the three eyed Raven has already done that and cocked things up...........

Of course now GRM / they have tossed time travel into the mix we have the possibility of nothing remaining fixed..............Bran is about to die - so yeah he should go back a few hours and fix it............

However thus far - Bran has not actually achieved anything except completing the Hodor loop - and how he is supposed to escape the walkers/ zombie horde now would be plot shields of stupendeous strength! Unless he travels back and changes the past.............

Unless he gets some outside help, as others have conjectured. Most likeliest of scenarios being Coldhands finally making his appearance. The next show preview showed the zombies getting ready to deadify Bran and Co, so something is going to happen there.

 Mr Morden wrote:
However thus far - Bran has not actually achieved anything except completing the Hodor loop - and how he is supposed to escape the walkers/ zombie horde now would be plot shields of stupendeous strength! Unless he travels back and changes the past.............

Bran's story is aimed at the greater threat, which presumably won't be resolved until the end of the series. A storyline isn't irrelevant or pointless just because you don't like it.

Besides, what has anyone really achieved? Daenerys has made a mess of Essos, but has accomplished nothing of import in Westeros or against the WW threat. She's taken a step back for every step forward. Recently she gained Dothrakis, but lost her dragons, two of them probably for good. The game of thrones played by the houses of Westeros have only served to dramatically weaken them, and currently there's a child on the throne surrounded by questionable advisors and facing an insurgency from religious fanatics. Dorne is presumably completely off the board now. Euron is one of the few people left with an actual plan...although it doesn't seem likely to work, and it's hard to see the Ironborn as a serious player.

The WW/Others haven't even accomplished much other than chasing away the Wildlings and making quick work of Hardhome. The showrunners have the pieces moving this season, but clearly the endgame hasn't begun.

Also, who here LOVED the face ful of cock suddenly appearing right in your face. Was really fun /sarcasm

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also, who here LOVED the face ful of cock suddenly appearing right in your face. Was really fun /sarcasm

I definitely did not enjoy that (well I laughed because me and my brother in law were watching it and right before that happens the one actress gets her shirt torn off and he turns to me and say "first set of boobs this episode" aaaand then a floppy Wang comes on screen and I lost it hahaha)


Also to the post about the Wolves being too hard to CGI/work with...anyone can say they know someone on the internet....hell I know Peter Jackson himself! He told me the goblins in lord of the rings were harder to work with than CGI goblins! (See I know people...not really lol)
With all the CGI dragons I don't see how the Wolves are a big deal

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also, who here LOVED the face ful of cock suddenly appearing right in your face. Was really fun /sarcasm

I don't always enjoy surprise cock but when I do it's gotta have a warty foreskin.

So obviously people have a problem with equality. Grow up everyone, it's the 21st century. /sarcasm

 gorgon wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
However thus far - Bran has not actually achieved anything except completing the Hodor loop - and how he is supposed to escape the walkers/ zombie horde now would be plot shields of stupendeous strength! Unless he travels back and changes the past.............

Bran's story is aimed at the greater threat, which presumably won't be resolved until the end of the series. A storyline isn't irrelevant or pointless just because you don't like it.

Besides, what has anyone really achieved? Daenerys has made a mess of Essos, but has accomplished nothing of import in Westeros or against the WW threat. She's taken a step back for every step forward. Recently she gained Dothrakis, but lost her dragons, two of them probably for good. The game of thrones played by the houses of Westeros have only served to dramatically weaken them, and currently there's a child on the throne surrounded by questionable advisors and facing an insurgency from religious fanatics. Dorne is presumably completely off the board now. Euron is one of the few people left with an actual plan...although it doesn't seem likely to work, and it's hard to see the Ironborn as a serious player.

The WW/Others haven't even accomplished much other than chasing away the Wildlings and making quick work of Hardhome. The showrunners have the pieces moving this season, but clearly the endgame hasn't begun.

Well thats an easy refute:

Dany starts as the bullied younger sister of a dying House with no friends, lovers, allies - she is now the Breaker of Chains, Mother of Dragons, Khalisi of the grass sea etc etc
She now has various close friends and a lover, many people who love her and /or respect her and are willing to die for her, has the adoration of tens if not hundreds of thousands of people and is one fo the major players in the entire world.
I'd call that progress............

We get that you don't like Dany (or the other strong female characters apparently) but sheesh lets examine some actual facts.............

in contrast Bran got given a wolf, climbed a tower, got chucked out, crippled, wondered about in the wilderness - saw some visions that were admitedely useful expostion for the viewer.
True he has now got the not elves slaughtered and the guy in the tree but thus far his plot has not noticably effected anyone of importance.

No I don't like or care about Bran but in terms of actual content beyond exposition his plot line has served zero purpose so far..............unless I have missed something? Maybe it will have something to say - or maybe its just another dead end like Dorne - the one mistep the show has made.

Its a bit liek Arya - who I do like but whose relevance to the main plot has yet to be revealed

Also, who here LOVED the face ful of cock suddenly appearing right in your face. Was really fun /sarcasm

It was a but random but then I enjoyed Sparticus so wasn't phased. The play was interesting.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also, who here LOVED the face ful of cock suddenly appearing right in your face. Was really fun /sarcasm

It's a just wiener, no big deal. Everyone has seen one.


Also:

So, is it me, or is the show moving alot faster to make up for the fact that they where kinda forced into stuff?
Also.
I wonder this, so we obviously know this is diverging from the books, but do you think any of it will coincide with winds of winter? Because we know that GRRM told them major plot points. Or is is pureley its own thing now?

Er...both?

It will share a lot, and diverge a lot.

I think we'll end up in mostly the same place at the end, but the paths to get there might be more than a bit different.

Well

 djones520 wrote:
So obviously people have a problem with equality. Grow up everyone, it's the 21st century. /sarcasm

Boobs aren't genitals. There haven't been had any full on shots of Vagina being laid out there, yes they've had naked women but not any close up of their genitals but we've had a close up of penis and balls. Bring on the Vag and then you can spout about "equality". Honestly the show can get along just fine without showing any genitals male or female but HBO likes to throw in that stuff for ratings & shock value.

 Alpharius wrote:
Er...both?

It will share a lot, and diverge a lot.

I think we'll end up in mostly the same place at the end, but the paths to get there might be more than a bit different.

I tend to agree. Previously the show was an adaptation for TV. Now the story is being written directly for TV. It'll be as streamlined as possible right from conception, and you can expect a big "moment" at the end of basically every episode, like we've seen.

I'm okay with it because things have to change from one medium to another. It's like two different works now. And it's not like the books don't have their issues in spots. Yet there's part of me that feels like the show is increasingly ASOIAF for Dummies. *shrug*

 Ustrello wrote:
Well

Spoiler:

Stannis is alive in the books but dead in the show so that is a big divergent

We don't know if it's divergent. It simply hasn't happened yet in the books.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, is it me, or is the show moving alot faster to make up for the fact that they where kinda forced into stuff?
Also.
I wonder this, so we obviously know this is diverging from the books, but do you think any of it will coincide with winds of winter? Because we know that GRRM told them major plot points. Or is is pureley its own thing now?

The tv show has to move faster than the books - they have people to pay, commitments to make and a budget to use. This is always true, having enjoyed the Night Manager (both book and film) there are major differences in content and pace (and even eneding_ but as long as the heart of the story is there its fine - as the author says in the book now. In fact , the most faithful adaption of a book to film I have seen is the Hunger Games (having seen the film first).

The books are currently wondering all over the place at the whim of GRM who obviously cannot be held to any form of deadline and will take as long as he thinks he needs to get the story he wants told. However he is not having to pay every actor for every character he invents (and these are multiplying all the time) and does not have to pay for CGI or animals.

For me they have taken the heart of the early books and formed it into a substantially more coherent story, rather than the increasingly bloated and character heavy amorphous mess that are the books story line.

It may well end the same way but I don’t believe the books will ever be finished – he might manage one more but I will be shocked if he manages more.

I and other friends have now completely given up on the books and so there is only Game of Thrones…….

We don't know if it's divergent. It simply hasn't happened yet in the books.

The stories are increasingly divergent - there are people dead in GOT that are alive in the books - the whole Slavers Bay story is radically different and half the book characters are dead, never present or in different places. They may ened in the same place - if in fact both do end......and not just the show.