Game of Thrones - The Discussion! p 83 season 7 rumours[SPOILERS]

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**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Danny is not barren in the books. At least, not anymore. her periods start again when she's in the Dothraki Sea with Drogon.

I don't think the show has really addressed her supposed infertility at all.

**Asherian Command**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Danny is not barren in the books. At least, not anymore. her periods start again when she's in the Dothraki Sea with Drogon.

I don't think the show has really addressed her supposed infertility at all.

Hmm, I thought that was the price she paid to save Khal Drogo.

**d-usa**

The couple of prophesies for Daenerys are pretty vague. The prophesy by the blood witch doesn't directly mention when she will have children because it focuses on when she will see Drogo again, but it mentions that she will see Drogo again when she gives birth again.

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.

Other prophecies that have been made to her, but I don't remember how much they were covered in the show:

Spoiler:

**Mr Morden**

Well that was a bit of a shock - good follow up episode to the last one.

Was not expecting a cast kill of that magnitude - nicely done as it was. Poor Margery :( No more Natalie Dormer.

Pretty much all really good stuff and they are doing some time skips to get stuff moving...........GRm could learn so very much!

Bran contiinues to be exposition guy.

Don't quite get why Mel is still alive - keep her or kill her - but just let her wonder off?

Also interesting that Ninja Arya gets to use masks.

The end scene was fabulous -

So Dany has everything - Armies, navy, dragons, advisors, allies, money, (Tyrells) - better hope she is in a good mood when she arrives and they all had best bend the knee - north or south if they want to stay unburnt and want her to dispatch the undead hordes.,

**Dr. What**

Remember that Mel swore that she and Arya would meet again.

I wish the time skips were a bit more clear, as that seems to be all people complain about. Especially because I really wanted Varys and Dany to meet so we could get his intentions laid out to her.

I don't think there is a single Cersei scene that I've disliked in this series. Lena Headey is amazing and it was so nice to have Jon Pryce carry some scenes too.

If I recall correctly, if a Bastard takes up his household's name/sigil, don't they invert the colors? So Jon's would actually be a white wolf on a grey background.

**Mr Morden**

Dr. What wrote:
Remember that Mel swore that she and Arya would meet again.

I wish the time skips were a bit more clear, as that seems to be all people complain about. Especially because I really wanted Varys and Dany to meet so we could get his intentions laid out to her.

I don't think there is a single Cersei scene that I've disliked in this series. Lena Headey is amazing and it was so nice to have Jon Pryce carry some scenes too.

If I recall correctly, if a Bastard takes up his household's name/sigil, don't they invert the colors? So Jon's would actually be a white wolf on a grey background.

Happy with the time skips tbh - they really needed to do them and they are pretty obvious when they happen.

Agree re Cersei - great work - but then i can't fault any of the acting in the last two episodes - as I said before the show has massively ascended above the source materiel.

**Kojiro**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

First cousin marriages, or aunt-nephew marriages, are not considered to be Incest under Westerosi law. Jon could marry Sansa (or Daenerys) and it would not be incest.

It'll be Daenerys by a mile, if only because Sansa and Jon feel like siblings to each other and there is zero political gain to be made by such a union. The KOTN and Danny though, that's an alliance. Dorn and Highgarden don't have a beef with the North and are already allies so it only makes sense.

Compel wrote:
And everyone cheering him on?

I wouldn't be surprised if a good number of the men there had no idea Sansa kept Littlefinger from Jon. Remember they both went around asking for help, sending ravens etc. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them assumed the Vale was just another place they made a request. As such, the Vale knights showing up is to them equally Jon and Sansa.

But even if they did know it was all Sansa, her role was to wield political clout. To ask a favour. Important and necessary yes, but she acted the politician. The men in that room, cheering for Jon, are not politicians. They're Northmen, hard men, soldiers and wildlings. They will always respect a person who is in the thick of it, risking their lives with their troops and fighting over someone sitting on a horse a mile away watching.

**Compel**

That doesn't mean that something isn't ticking in the back of her mind though... That they should be cheering her on.

**kronk**

All in all, this was my favorite episode.

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Also, how the feth the did Varys get from Dorne to Meereen that fast.

I mean, I'm all for expedited traveling in the show but that was a little ridiculous.

It takes months to get that much food ready, and ships converted to haul that many horses, etc.

Just because he was in Dorne 45 minutes earlier, doesn't mean only 45 minutes passed!

**gorgon**

Compel wrote:
That doesn't mean that something isn't ticking in the back of her mind though... That they should be cheering her on.

No, I don't think so. Look at the blocking in the previous scene on the ramparts. They start with distance in between, not even really facing each other. And then as they talk it out, they get closer until Jon plants that kiss on her forehead. That was the two of them finally coming together for real.

And listen to the dialogue in that scene. Sansa is the political operator and realist...she knows exactly what's going to happen with Jon, and that's why she has that little smile when it goes down with the northern lords. Jon is just a good dude...he undoubtedly has an inkling that it could happen, but doesn't really want the power and never embraced the idea until it was forced on him. Even as he has this knack for getting people to follow him. But Sansa knew Jon becoming KotN was inevitable.

**Alpharius**

And Jon isn't going to force Sansa to do anything she really doesn't want to do either...

**yakface**

After reading some reviews of the ep (and people's reaction in this thread) I think the Jon/Sansa/Littlefinger King of the North scene is kind of a like a Rorschach test. People that want to think that scene showed Sansa unhappy with the turn of events see that, and people that want to think that Sansa is loyal to Jon and wary of Littlefinger see that instead.

As for the so-called 'time jumps'...seriously people, you need to think about pacing and reveals work on a TV show and how important it is for each episode and season to have arcs and surprises that make sense (regardless of whether it makes physical sense for those characters to be in certain locales).

Having Varys leave at the beginning of the season, show up in Dorne halfway through the season (ruining the surprise of the alliance he was forming) just so he could be back in time for the finale would have absolutely sucked.

It is much, much, much better to cheat certain timelines to have specific events occur in certain episodes where they will have meaning.

Hell, go back and watch the show '24' and realize that there is physically now way to traverse Los Angeles by car the way they do in that show. But would we really want to have Jack Bauer drive in a car for 2 episodes to get somewhere?

TV shows are fantasy, and trust me when I say that GoT would absolutely suck if they never cheated the travel time of characters or warped the timeflow of certain plots to match others. They are doing all of us a favor by not dragging out plots longer in order to give enough 'realistic' time for character travel.

**hotsauceman1**

So......how did cerser acquire the throne exactly? By what right of succession and that fact she is a women, how did she become the queen of westeros?
Also, why kill the measter?

**yakface**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
So......how did cerser acquire the throne exactly? By what right of succession and that fact she is a women, how did she become the queen of westeros?
Also, why kill the measter?

My take was that what she did isn't 'legal', but rather she killed everyone who would have dared opposed her, including the entire small council. Not only was the Grand Maester a member of the high council, but I think he definitely would have raised concerns about the illegitimacy of her taking the crown. As it stands now, between the zombie Mountain and what everyone knows she did to the High Sparrow and all the people attending her trial, nobody is willing to stand up and oppose her, so she's just kind of done it on her own.

I think I read an article a while ago stating that if you traced all the lineages, Jamie was actually the next in line to the thrown, strangely enough (because the Baratheons and Lannisters shared a common heritage).

---

And speaking of the issue of 'time jumps', look what I just found (and could not agree with more):

http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-timelines-explained/

I say: amen to that. I don't want to see/wait for episode after episode just so the travel times are correct. Just give me the good bits, and forget the rest!

**angelofvengeance**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
So......how did cerser acquire the throne exactly? By what right of succession and that fact she is a women, how did she become the queen of westeros?
Also, why kill the measter?

Pycelle is a fraud, and can't keep his gob shut.

Cersei becomes queen because holy gak she just burned everyone alive, so we better do as we're told lol. No one will mess with Darth Cersei. Except Dany.

**Mr Morden**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
So......how did cerser acquire the throne exactly? By what right of succession and that fact she is a women, how did she become the queen of westeros?
Also, why kill the measter?

Why not? - he had opposed her several times - Cersei was clearing House and her own minion wanted the job and go it.

She is queen because she killed everyone who disagreed with her - the normal route to power. Also who else was there to rule?

Pretty much anyone who was anyone just burned.

re Jon / Dany marriage - well her bloodline is fine with incest - in fact actively encourages it. Unless "exposition" Bran reveals it to anyone - who will ever know or care about if his father was a Targaryian not a Stark - in fact its not really a good thing now

As far as the north is concerned He is now a Stark and King of the North, so unless he snubs Dany there is no real reason why they would not form an marriage alliance

I can't think of any other eligible men of that level of power? As long as they can have children then the kingdom would continue.

**reds8n**

Poor Margery :( No more Natalie Dormer.

yeah

, if more people had listened to her ....

Varys is a fishman though yeah ? That's how he gets about so quickly right ? ....

Timewise thing :

Bear in mind we don't see all the jumps -- conversation in Dorne was sufficiently after the event for all those there to know what had happened,s end invites to Rigg's character, her to travel etc etc.

After all those sails and dragonhead ships prows take time to make one assumes ?

Library was pretty cool too --

which brings me nicely to : http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-citadel-theory/2/

Spoiler:

As amazing as the sheer amount of books and size of the library is when Sam sees it for the first time, the gigantic whirligig of a chandelier was the selling point of the scene mostly because of where viewers have seen it in the past. Namely, whipping across the opening credits of the show every episode since the beginning. But is there larger meaning to the chandelier appearing up in both the opening credits and in the halls of the Citadel? Maybe not, but a new theory could have just broken the A Song of Ice and Fire series wide open.

Exhibit A, the chandelier itself being in the Citadel. Which means it obviously has some larger meaning within the world of Westeros. Whether it is only important to the Maesters or to the universe as a whole remains unknown.

More importantly, a tool that the audience only got a quick look at when Sam rolls up at the Citadel. The grumpy front desk staffer (worst resort concierge of all time) that greeted Sam and turned Gilly away was using a very specific pair of lenses to study whatever tome he had open in front of him at the time. Lest you think you haven’t seen his spectacles before though, think again.

I present to you Exhibit B, the key to this theory:

You see, you might not remember glimpsing those specific lenses before but they way they hinge and magnify books and maps for the reader is awfully similar to how the shifting lenses in the opening credits operate. While that might mean nothing more than the show wanting to tie together their beautiful opening credits with the larger story, there could also be something bigger at work. The overarching saga is called A Song Of Ice And Fire after all, and in the world of Game of Thrones songs are used to pass on heroic stories and legends. So does that mean somebody is telling this story of Dany, Jon, Arya, Cersei, and the rest to future generations?

If that’s how it ends, some fans might be mad about the set up of the story. But if this theory is right, does it make sense for Sam to be the one that devotes his life to passing along the heroism and cruelty of everyone in Westeros? Or could it be Sam’s son who was told the story by his father and then passes it on to his own children? If this theory is accurate, there are any number of options that would make sense. But for now it is just another theory.

makes -- some -- sense.

Hope it isn't one of those " all of this has happened before and will happen again" type of thing.

With regards to the North :

Lyanna Mormont continues to be awesome. half suspect there' ll be some really awkward scenes where people try/have to marry her with awkwardness/hilarity ensuing. Presumably followed up by a massacre after people "follow their hearts" as opposed to their vows or something . Just like Robb and Co. before.

Sansa wise .... I took it that she was sharing a knowing look/moment with Littlefinger -- as bear with me here : -- she knows that he knows that she knows that l'finger might/will have to kill Jon as he is now a serious rival to him powerwise. He thinks she might be amiable to this -- and she might be -- but I think she'd double playing him -- she learnt a lot in King's Landing and afterwards.

In affect she's acting like a Kings' Hand -- just like her husband Tyrion -- they're still hitched yes/no ? COuld be argued in a court anyway one would wager -- especially in a certain Bolton no longer existed.... -- which shows how she and Tyrion are, ultimately, very suited to/for each other.

**CthuluIsSpy**

angelofvengeance wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
So......how did cerser acquire the throne exactly? By what right of succession and that fact she is a women, how did she become the queen of westeros?
Also, why kill the measter?

Pycelle is a fraud, and can't keep his gob shut.

Cersei becomes queen because holy gak she just burned everyone alive, so we better do as we're told lol. No one will mess with Darth Cersei. Except Dany.

Everyone keeps calling her Darth Cersei. Why? She's the leader, not the muscle. She's more like Emperor Cersei, with Darth Gregor.
Unless you are referring to Darth Sidious...which was not his name in the movies where he was Emperor. He was Emperor Palpatine there.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Jon and Dany marrying would not be incest. Only brother-sister marriages are considered incest in Westeros. Aunt-Nephew marriages, or cousins marrying is not incest.

So Sansa could marry Sweet Robin, or Jon himself. Jon can marry Daenerys.

Tywin Lannister married his own cousin, Joanna Lannister.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Everyone keeps calling her Darth Cersei. Why?

Because it's just a generic term for people that seem evil. Don't look into it too much.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Well, she did just crown herself Queen (Emperor) by eliminating all her political rivals (Jedi).

I think its an apt comparison.

**CthuluIsSpy**

And her right hand man is a big armored scary guy with a helmet. He's not a cyborg, but close enough.

**Alpharius**

yakface wrote:

And speaking of the issue of 'time jumps', look what I just found (and could not agree with more):

http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-timelines-explained/

I say: amen to that. I don't want to see/wait for episode after episode just so the travel times are correct. Just give me the good bits, and forget the rest!

Great?

CLEARLY that is what's happening, but...

I don't think anyone wants to LITERALLY watch 4 episodes of anyone on a boat/coach/horse/walking from A to B - they just want the writers to, you know, do their job a little better and frame the scenes in such a way that people don't feel the need to make Vary's Teleporting Teleporter jokes!

**Mr Morden**

Surprised its that much of a problem - watching it we thought it was obvious time was moving on, but I guess maybe people need spoon feeding more?

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Mr Morden wrote:
Surprised its that much of a problem - watching it we thought it was obvious time was moving on, but I guess maybe people need spoon feeding more?

Yeah, that's it exactly... we just want to be spoon fed.

**Mr Morden**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Surprised its that much of a problem - watching it we thought it was obvious time was moving on, but I guess maybe people need spoon feeding more?

Yeah, that's it exactly... we just want to be spoon fed.

What did you want - wasted time (and money) on lots of shots of people "travelling", captions of "2 weeks" later?

**Alpharius**

Whoa!

Unnecessarily hostile there - and maybe toeing the Rule #1 line too...

Anyway, the writers themselves acknowledge it is a 'problem' for them too, and just couldn't figure it out, so instead they just...ignored it?

Oh well!

In the end, it isn't a big deal, but it definitely sticks out at times.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

No, just a better indication of how much time has passed.

**kronk**

Enough time to refit over a hundred ships to carry horses, a barbarian horde, mount a giant golden dragon bust on the bow of one ship, and get Varyss back to join them.

**gorgon**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
No, just a better indication of how much time has passed.

Exactly.

Forget about teleporting Varys. A girl goes to sleep. Next scene, a girl wakes up in the same location. Her hair is the same length, etc. And terrible, should-be-mortal stab wounds are apparently(?) healed from the way she moves around. Have weeks passed or is it a Festivus miracle? The direction and story give us no indication either way, so something seems amiss. Ergo...it's bad direction, storytelling, or both.

This season ended on a strong note with an extremely well-directed episode. But there were all kinds of awkwardness going on in other episodes as the writers tried to end storylines and bring the endgame. Sure, a lot of that was unavoidable. But certain amounts of storytelling sloppiness, drifting characterizations, and sub-par dialogue was less excusable. I can't be the only one who found the whole Faceless Men storyline to be a huge letdown in the end.

Some in this thread obviously feel differently, but to me "pace" and "big stuff happening" aren't the end-all and be-all, and in fact a good narrative doesn't need to rely on melodrama or being fast-paced.