160 Str 6 shots for 1080 points....

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**SirDonlad**

TheCustomLime wrote:
It'd be as sensible as GW rules writing these days.

Srsly, though, I'm done with mainline 40k. This, along with the Necron codex, has sapped all of my interest from the game. I might still play a pick up game or two but that's it. Time to head off to the promised lands of the Horus Heresy.

welcome brother! - you'll be safe here; they can take back the 40k galaxy if they want, it's broken anyway.

**Poly Ranger**

bibotot wrote:
I think it's 1 Scatter Laser per 3 models instead of per model. Just like the Shuriken Cannon right now.

It's one each according to WD and the fact you also get 3 scatter lasers in a box of 3 bikes apparently.

**ImAGeek**

bibotot wrote:
I think it's 1 Scatter Laser per 3 models instead of per model. Just like the Shuriken Cannon right now.

Not seen the photos from White Dwarf then?

**Exergy**

Poly Ranger wrote:
bibotot wrote:
I think it's 1 Scatter Laser per 3 models instead of per model. Just like the Shuriken Cannon right now.

It's one each according to WD and the fact you also get 3 scatter lasers in a box of 3 bikes apparently.

All signs point to it being 1 per 1, instead of logical 1 per 3. Just like serpent sheilds were clearly supposed to be 6" but were 60"

yeah if they really intend this, well they will be selling a lot of jet bikes and very little of anything else for a long time as people quit in disgust.

**Toofast**

bibotot wrote:
I think it's 1 Scatter Laser per 3 models instead of per model. Just like the Shuriken Cannon right now.

1. WD clearly states every model can take one
2. On a totally different page outlining what's in the new jetbike kit, it states the kit comes with 3 of each weapon, so you can give all 3 scatter lasers

How many ways from Sunday does this need to be confirmed before people accept it? Declaring that snow is black doesn't make it true...

**Martel732**

Denial.

**Agent_Tremolo**

Kanluwen wrote:
Wraithknights were a huge seller for GW.
Hemlocks sold well to boot, they just never really got played as Hemlocks and were instead built as the Crimson Hunter.
Wraithguard also sold fairly well by all accounts.

Really, I don't know. That's why I included a caveat. Maybe it's something situational, the need to start the fiscal year in strong grounds or to silence some mouths amongst the shareholders. Maybe they overstocked and are now trying to get rid of the excess production. Whatever the reason, GW chose to further promote their newest set of kits. I'm not a firm believer in this "GW only produces rules to promote new models" theory (my two main armies, Orks and Dark Angels, tell me that's not always true), but in the case of the Eldar there is enough evidence to be suspicious.

**Inquisitor Jazzhands**

I'm gonna start taking special weapons on every member of every squad. Every biker gets a grav gun, every two guardsmen get an autocannon, every space marine gets a plasma gun - 10 points for the upgrade, regardless of original cost. It's Oprah 40k! You get specials, and you get specials!!!

**Accolade**

Martel732 wrote:
Denial.

First stage

**Blacksails**

I am loving the people who claim this is a reasonable and not too unbalanced change for the Eldar.

The delusion is strong.

Then again, its a great example of just how bad the power creep has become when people are honestly under the impression there are reasonable counters.

**Kanluwen**

Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Wraithknights were a huge seller for GW.
Hemlocks sold well to boot, they just never really got played as Hemlocks and were instead built as the Crimson Hunter.
Wraithguard also sold fairly well by all accounts.

Really, I don't know. That's why I included a caveat. Maybe it's something situational, the need to start the fiscal year in strong grounds or to silence some mouths amongst the shareholders. Maybe they overstocked and are now trying to get rid of the excess production. Whatever the reason, GW chose to further promote their newest set of kits. I'm not a firm believer in this "GW only produces rules to promote new models" theory (my two main armies, Orks and Dark Angels, tell me that's not always true), but in the case of the Eldar there is enough evidence to be suspicious.

The big issue with the evidence in this case is, simply put, that Jetbikes even with old models were considered pretty dang good.
It is only the real issue of this whole Scatter Laser for 10 point nonsense that is pushing things over the edge.

Same thing goes for the Wraithknight and Wraithguard. They were already considered pretty good(or great in the case of WKs), but something as simple as Distort weapons gaining access to Destroyer flatout drives the crazy bus right over the cliff.

**Martel732**

Go check out the bolter thread under rules suggestions, where we are still be shamed for wanting to buff bolters. I'm just breaking down laughing at this point. The only bolters are good for now is committing suicide when you see these things coming. They still might kill you faster, though.

**Bharring**

Some of us would rather not have the really stupid stuff - like the apparent Jetbike changes - ruin all our games, especially when neither player fields them.

**Martel732**

They're going to be everywhere where I play. They're probably sawing their models as we speak. And it will only take a couple players at each location to drive the crazy bus.

**Bharring**

It takes only two players to have a game without them. My meta never decended into Serpent Spam.

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
It takes only two players to have a game without them. My meta never decended into Serpent Spam.

Goodie for you. I play BA, so three quarters of the lists I see might as well be Serpent Spam.

**Makumba**

2 out of 4 people I play the most use eldar. Both of them use bikers. It may not be much different on the lose front for me, as I was losing to their armies, before. But at least I get to shot at stuff. Now they will just out range most of my stuff. In fact the games are probably going to be the same as against GK. Two or three turns of grabing objectives coupled with an alfa strike that kills 50% of my army.

**Martel732**

It will be mildly amusing to watch GK players bonzai these things and then get swatted the next turn like chumps.

**Ferros**

I agree its a unit with huge damage output but also incredibly fragile in terms of defense and Ld. Spam large blasts, flyers, or MSU of high strength (Destroyers, missile pods, etc). Either they jink and neuter themselves or risk Ld tests. Go get your your artillery on.

**Martel732**

" incredibly fragile in terms of defense and Ld."

They are meq that move 12" and have 4 S6 36" shots. Meqs are incredibly fragile?

**ImAGeek**

Ferros wrote:
I agree its a unit with huge damage output but also incredibly fragile in terms of defense and Ld. Spam large blasts, flyers, or MSU of high strength (Destroyers, missile pods, etc). Either they jink and neuter themselves or risk Ld tests. Go get your your artillery on.

Good luck when Fire Dragons or D weapon wraith units take out your artillery, or their flyers take out yours...

**Martel732**

Scatterbikes don't need fliers to take out fliers. I don't think people are really grasping the number 160 here. Every turn. Minus a few every turn.

**Drasius**

I'd say that we're forgetting that Wave Serpents will now be a fast attack choice (like every other dedicated transport in the 7th ed 'dexes), but if you can take 40+ scatter lasers on your troops choices, I'm not sure it's going to matter beyond maybe giving the knife an extra twist after it's buried up to the hilt already.

Martel732 wrote:
" incredibly fragile in terms of defense and Ld."

They are meq that move 12" and have 4 S6 36" shots. Meqs are incredibly fragile?

You play BA, you should already know that they are indeed incredibly fragile. Marines on foot outside their transport might as well be dead these days with the amount of high stregth and/or low AP fire going around these days. Spare a thought for those of us that play chaos who don't automatically rally.

**TheCustomLime**

Against a Jinking Valkyrie Chassis all of those scatter lasers will knock off 2.23112 HP. They are not that great at AA unless the opponent's aircraft aren't particularly durable. They will swat Stormtalons out of the sky that is for damned sure.

**krodarklorr**

Drasius wrote:
I'd say that we're forgetting that Wave Serpents will now be a fast attack choice (like every other dedicated transport in the 7th ed 'dexes), but if you can take 40+ scatter lasers on your troops choices, I'm not sure it's going to matter beyond maybe giving the knife an extra twist after it's buried up to the hilt already.

Well, most likely the Wave Serpent won't be as ridiculous as it was. The Serpent shield won't be as "point-n-click" as it was, the Scatterlaser combo isn't a thing anymore, and Holofields are changing. So yeah, not too bad anymore.

**Martel732**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Against a Jinking Valkyrie Chassis all of those scatter lasers will knock off 2.23112 HP. They are not that great at AA unless the opponent's aircraft aren't particularly durable. They will swat Stormtalons out of the sky that is for damned sure.

Okay. They'll just have to ignore that thing, just like my BA do.

**TheCustomLime**

Vendettas and Valkyries kind of suck anyway especially against Eldar stuff. Low RoF+crap BS+Jink=feth all being damaged. Though, I think this will be the final nail in the coffin of the Stormraven functioning as a transport for anything Space Marine.

**Poly Ranger**

Ferros wrote:
I agree its a unit with huge damage output but also incredibly fragile in terms of defense and Ld. Spam large blasts, flyers, or MSU of high strength (Destroyers, missile pods, etc). Either they jink and neuter themselves or risk Ld tests. Go get your your artillery on.

Lets pretend for a minute that they have no save, no access to jink, and T1. They have a 36" range and jsj. But one more thing that is WAY more important to their durability is that they are troops that can be included in squads of 3-10. That means you can have 12 units of 3 in 2 CAD. Even in one CAD people will probably run 6 units of 5. Yes IF you kill 3 and IF you make 7 run away that's a decent result. But people won't be including units of 10 most likely. They won't need to. If you make a couple run away, it doesn't look so rosy anymore. And can we stop acting like JBs have ld5 please?

**Martel732**

No, we can't. Because denial.

**raiden**

SilverDevilfish wrote:
Poly Ranger wrote:
Orock posted this yesterday and its all ready had 13, 562 views at time of writing. That really, to me, demonstrates not only how worried people are about this but also a shared sense of dread (or jubilation) that this has extreme potential to destroy the game as it is. To have thay many views in that time, people must have come on dakka intentionally to see and/or discuss this utterly game changing rule (and I mean that literally, not as an overused cliché). It has the potential to rock the foundations of the game if GW allow it to stand.
And as I've demonstrated - I'm willing to consider and discuss counters. But the sky is most certainly falling in without agreement on house rules. You don't have to be one or the other to see how dangerous this is for the game.

Honestly I don't think it's the bikes themselves that are generating so much worry. It's the bikes going to an already powerful and fairly flexible codex. If these we're given to say DA... I don't think there would be as big of a panic (not so say no one would worry, but it wouldn't be as big of a deal).

That's because my DA bikes are noe 37ppm. Much more acceptable