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..... Then I still get to template his bikes? I don't see the issue. I'd rather DS bear the middle of the board. Won't go off the edge as easily and I can snuggle up to his bikes with the pod.

 PandaHero wrote:
He doenst need to hide the bike, He just have to deploy in order to block your from deppstrike shenanigans, hence making your alpha strike less effective, therefore not countering the list. 30 Bike has a massive footprint, so deepstiking against them will probably put you in the middle of the board anyway

That's not necessarily a bad thing, to be in the middle of the board. As long as it gets the Plasmas/Combi-Plasmas into firing range, you don't need to drop in their backfield. If you can, awesome. If you can't, then the job of the Drop Pod is to get your Marines into a good firing position on Turn 1. If they die, ok they did their job. If not, then enjoy killing more things next turn.

I run fragiosos a lot. Anyone who knows how to set up against them can easily make them have only crappy options to lay templates on. You know how I'd deal with that pod list you threw down? Deploy like 4 5man scatbikes squads (I said before I'd probably run 4 5 man groups and 2 10 man with farseers and warlocks in a cad for obsec, not even a full list,) if I have to go first and you null deploy, turbo boost around my table half, and max out my 2" coherency in non-flamer shapes. Pods come in, some bikes jink, a few die here and there, and then I get reserves, so any marines that podded in die immediately. The fragioso(s) will either get rear-armored to death this turn if you put it near my table edge in any facing, or left in the dust by a turbo boost and become irrelevant for several turns of move+runs. 2nd wave of pods, I don't mind jinking, boosting away, and leaving you alone for a turn if they all come in, because on the turn where you can't convince me to make the bikes jink, you start losing your army.

With a bit of luck and proper play, I could handle those pod lists with JUST the bikes, never mind the other 5-600 points of my army that could be anything, like say, a tau firebase formation all with early warning override.

My point is: Someone can actually position 30 bike easily to push your deepstrike far enough that you could only hit 1 squad of bike effectively (well maybe not only 1 squad, but I can definitly place my bike to reduce the number of target you get). I don't see how you can absord the retaliation after.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
aka, it's easy to make someone not cost effective with drop pods when you have a large footprint army.

That doesn't include Wave Serpent spacing shenaningans to make all the bikes behind them undroppable. Most IoM players crowing about drop pods don't have opponents who understand how to set up against them. That's my experience. Because the players I play with are very good at minimizing alpha strikes.

This sums up well how I feel.

niv-mizzet wrote:
I run fragiosos a lot. Anyone who knows how to set up against them can easily make them have only crappy options to lay templates on. You know how I'd deal with that pod list you threw down? Deploy like 4 5man scatbikes squads (I said before I'd probably run 4 5 man groups and 2 10 man with farseers and warlocks in a cad for obsec, not even a full list,) if I have to go first and you null deploy, turbo boost around my table half, and max out my 2" coherency in non-flamer shapes. Pods come in, some bikes jink, a few die here and there, and then I get reserves, so any marines that podded in die immediately. The fragioso(s) will either get rear-armored to death this turn if you put it near my table edge in any facing, or left in the dust by a turbo boost and become irrelevant for several turns of move+runs. 2nd wave of pods, I don't mind jinking, boosting away, and leaving you alone for a turn if they all come in, because on the turn where you can't convince me to make the bikes jink, you start losing your army.

With a bit of luck and proper play, I could handle those pod lists with JUST the bikes, never mind the other 5-600 points of my army that could be anything, like say, a tau firebase formation all with early warning override.

There's probably a WK rocket punching the dreads as well.

So I just had an evil thought....Kill Team

Eldar jetbikes were evil before this now they are evin worse.
200 pts lets you take 7 Scatterlaser Jetbikes (7x27=189)
So you could take 2 squads of 3 with 38pts to spare for upgrades like warlocks ect as a troop :-(
This would slaughter pritty much anything a kill team could feild and have the best manuverability and saves possable wile doing it.....not broken at all lol

 Drasius wrote:
I'm more worried about the effect on marines, since if you're tooling up specifically to kill hoards of T4 3+ save eldar jetbike units, then marines are going to have a mad time. It's OK for marines, 'cause they can field bikes as troops (for now), but Chaos? Chaos is even more boned.

You never know. GW could make a refreshed Assault Marine and/or refreshed Bike kit, and make either/both troops, later in the year when they make the SM codex. Both kits are dated (the ASM one horribly so), and this would encourage people to go and buy multiple boxes of plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
That doesn't include Wave Serpent spacing shenaningans to make all the bikes behind them undroppable. Most IoM players crowing about drop pods don't have opponents who understand how to set up against them. That's my experience. Because the players I play with are very good at minimizing alpha strikes.

There is no good way to hide 40 bikes, man. They gotta go somewhere.

We now have confirmation that all distort weapons are Strength D.

The one modification we know of so far is that the small ones on wraithguard are a -1 on the chart.

Still, hitting on 3+ and another 3+ to deal D3 hullpoints is rough for vehicles.

Oh, and wraightknights are 295pts base with a D strength sword.

I'm no game designologist, but I'm about 97.4832% certain that's not balanced.

Whelp, someone on warseer has the book. And its worse than I thought.

Wraithknights clocking in under 300 points.
jetbike stupidity confirmed.
str D everywhere (thought on wraiths, you get minus 1 to the d roll, so no 6 result possible)

interesting that things like banshees and shining spears get the +3 to charge distance like skitarii have. Must be a new thing they are gonna give to alot of assault units from here on out.

Get it together Orock, I beat you by 14secs.

 PandaHero wrote:
He doenst need to hide the bike, He just have to deploy in order to block your from deppstrike shenanigans, hence making your alpha strike less effective, therefore not countering the list. 30 Bike has a massive footprint, so deepstiking against them will probably put you in the middle of the board anyway

Remember that 10 bikes is the same price as 2 drop pods with 6 plasma. As I said, 30-40 bikes on a board with meaningful terrain takes up a HUGE amount of space. These are not 25mm imperial guard lol.

 Blacksails wrote:
Get it together Orock, I beat you by 14secs.

PORQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no good way to hide 40 bikes, man. They gotta go somewhere.

Again, you don't need to hide them. You need to make a large enough footprint to control where the Pod are dropping, hence reducing the alpha stike. with good spacing, you just screw a pod list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
space your bike, control the pod drop, and then fly away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and, you DONT need 30-40 bike. I think min squad that total up 20-25 bikes are going to be the sweet spot

 PandaHero wrote:

There is no good way to hide 40 bikes, man. They gotta go somewhere.

Again, you don't need to hide them. You need to make a large enough footprint to control where the Pod are dropping, hence reducing the alpha stike. with good spacing, you just screw a pod list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
space your bike, control the pod drop, and then fly away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and, you DONT need 30-40 bike. I think min squad that total up 20-25 bikes are going to be the sweet spot

I doubt you can force my two fragnaughts to not Target two different units. And even just covering 3 models= 6 str6 hits rending + a str 8 ap2 shot or another heavy flamer. You are on average losing 3-4 bikes. So those two 5 man squads are nuetered. Your other squads are most likely jinking,

Then you can deal with my plasma+ 12 str8 ap3 coming in from the dev squads as I happliy ignore your WK, yay, you turbo boost away. Now you are in range of my 3 bike units with ungoldly amounts of grav weaponry. All my bikes have to do is hold center field, with my drop pod units holding the sides (or at least threatening them). My bikes from center will catch yours 80% of the time. Even if you turbo boost, if you turbo, you aren't shooting. All the while happy missiles rain on you from afar.

30 bikes + farseer(bare) + 2 warlocks= 1010. Yeah, you can fit in 2 WKs with men weaponry. Yeah, they will most likely down my dreads, but I never except them to live anyway. After taking the bikes our of the picture, your two WKs are easy prey to all the ap3 I have.

Guys guys guys... please... chill out about the scatter lasers... it's fine. Lets give jetbikes who use SC 's Shred once per game, to make everything fair.
That solves the problem.

Raiden, its pretty easy to paint a pretty picture when you conveniently ignore the Eldar shooting phase.

The more leaks are not helping.

^that^
and it seem like hes playing on an empty board where pod drop always where it will cause the most damage. Anyway, I don't play Eldar, and I don't play against eldar.

 Registered Ork Offender wrote:
Guys guys guys... please... chill out about the scatter lasers... it's fine. Lets give jetbikes who use SC 's Shred once per game, to make everything fair.
That solves the problem.

Only in the war host, which makes them much less spammable.

 Talys wrote:

 Registered Ork Offender wrote:
Guys guys guys... please... chill out about the scatter lasers... it's fine. Lets give jetbikes who use SC 's Shred once per game, to make everything fair.
That solves the problem.

Only in the war host, which makes them much less spammable.

Umm. The Warhost requires just Farseer, Bikes and Vyper, right? That's what you want anyways.

 PandaHero wrote:

There is no good way to hide 40 bikes, man. They gotta go somewhere.

Again, you don't need to hide them. You need to make a large enough footprint to control where the Pod are dropping, hence reducing the alpha stike. with good spacing, you just screw a pod list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
space your bike, control the pod drop, and then fly away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and, you DONT need 30-40 bike. I think min squad that total up 20-25 bikes are going to be the sweet spot

But, 20 bikes is not spam IMO. The premise of this thread is 810 points in bikes, which, in my opinion is not a winning formula.

It solves the problem! Do not question your Eldar overlords!!

 Talys wrote:

 PandaHero wrote:

There is no good way to hide 40 bikes, man. They gotta go somewhere.

Again, you don't need to hide them. You need to make a large enough footprint to control where the Pod are dropping, hence reducing the alpha stike. with good spacing, you just screw a pod list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
space your bike, control the pod drop, and then fly away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and, you DONT need 30-40 bike. I think min squad that total up 20-25 bikes are going to be the sweet spot

But, 20 bikes is not spam IMO. The premise of this thread is 810 points in bikes, which, in my opinion is not a winning formula.

Premise is actually 1080. It is in the title.

That being said... Now we don't even need that many. Check out the other thread.

 Talys wrote:

 PandaHero wrote:

There is no good way to hide 40 bikes, man. They gotta go somewhere.

Again, you don't need to hide them. You need to make a large enough footprint to control where the Pod are dropping, hence reducing the alpha stike. with good spacing, you just screw a pod list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
space your bike, control the pod drop, and then fly away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and, you DONT need 30-40 bike. I think min squad that total up 20-25 bikes are going to be the sweet spot

But, 20 bikes is not spam IMO. The premise of this thread is 810 points in bikes, which, in my opinion is not a winning formula.

20 bikes are still throwing more S6 firepower across the board than any IG army I can think of for anything near the same amount of points, much less with the same accuracy and resiliency.

Ugh those codex leaks, made it so much worse

I can just see the LVO rules next year.

Codex: Eldar banned.

I see even less reason to actually consent to a game vs an Eldar play now than with the previous codex. If I wanted to play a game of setting up my models and then packing them away, I'd play apoc where I can at least have a chance at doing the same to the other guy.

 Orock wrote:
I can just see the LVO rules next year.

Codex: Eldar banned.

GW seems to be repeating a lot of mistakes from the past with this codex.

Free weapons/models with X formation, much like the much bemoaned free Aspiring Champs in the 3.5E codex.

And an Eldar books that looks to be strongly reminiscent of the issues with the 2E Eldar codex and 7E Daemon book that resulted in massive edition changes to fix with 3E 40k reboot and 8E WHFB respectively.