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I don't know that outrage is necessarily the correct word. For instance, I did reply showing that I didn't care for the direction they had decided to go. I expressed it but I don't think it was outrage, let alone even close to being a passionate response. If anything disappointment was what I was personally feeling towards the preview.

I will say right now, that if they have cobbled something together in short order in response, then I have to wonder how much consideration they've given this new direction. I'm not saying it will be terrible or unplayable or anything like that but I just don't know that I would trust it to be particularly well developed.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
I think the outrage was more important than any playtesting.

To be fair I think the strong disagreement over what game people beileve mantic should be developing did derail the whole alpha thread on the mantic forums. I still think mantic didn't prepare themselves for the ammount of dissent and discourse that the wp 3.0 rules would produce.

I am looking forward to seeing the second ruleset that they announced they are creating, although I do feel at this point its going to split the fan base and be seen by many as not something mantic really want to produce.

The biggest problem was that Mantic pulled a GW. They should have revealed the Warpath rules on their own terms. Instead, they allowed it to leak through whispers out of a paywall, and people jumped to conclusions.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
The biggest problem was that Mantic pulled a GW. They should have revealed the Warpath rules on their own terms. Instead, they allowed it to leak through whispers out of a paywall, and people jumped to conclusions.

People didn't jump to conclusions though, the people who posted the most and strongest objections all had the alpha rules in hand, and the paywall was an especially thin one as you should know

DZ:I pledge manager 22nd June

Shredder/Ravagers (not all parts will make the final kit max 6 heads )

They seem a bit plain, some fur on those thighs would be nice.

The legs could have done with some armour plates. It kind of looks like you could cripple them easily with a couple of legs shots.

Also, and this is just me being picky, the drill arms could have done with been less outstretched and being more bunched up to show off the drills weight.

I'll definitely be considering 3 or 4 sprues of them in the pm, dependant of course on the wp 3.0 beta

 lord_blackfang wrote:
some fur on those thighs would be nice.

First time I ever heard someone say that sentence

When is the PM open?

Has anyone heard about the KoW2 PM?

Why won't they take my money?

Deadzone PM is 22nd of June

It's sometime during the week that starts on the 22nd. Knowing Mantic, it'll be the 28th.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When is the PM open?

Has anyone heard about the KoW2 PM?

Why won't they take my money?

kow2 pm is closed latest comment on the ks comments.

 edlowe wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When is the PM open?

Has anyone heard about the KoW2 PM?

Why won't they take my money?

kow2 pm is closed latest comment on the ks comments.

Guess I won't be buying any abyssals, succubi, salamanders, naiads or tyrant king Blaines.

Good thing I still have my 1st edition book, too.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 edlowe wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When is the PM open?

Has anyone heard about the KoW2 PM?

Why won't they take my money?

kow2 pm is closed latest comment on the ks comments.

Guess I won't be buying any abyssals, succubi, salamanders, naiads or tyrant king Blaines.

Good thing I still have my 1st edition book, too.

I really did think they'd open it again once we saw some more renders but apparently they needed final numbers for production. I was pretty much going to dump another $150+ when it reopened.

They told us they would open it when we had a chance to see the final versions of the minis. Shouldn't they have accounted for that?

Mantic may finally be realising that the continual PM re-opening is hurting their retail sales, as well as messing with their production numbers

I suspect this is a test to see how much better/worse sales are if they don't

and as for mantic saying one thing and doing another, it's par for the course, 'we'll show you actual minis befor closing the PM', 'the PM will be open on X', 'we'll use this art to base the minis on' especially if it's Ronnie talking about things as he does get carried away by enthusiasm

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 edlowe wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When is the PM open?

Has anyone heard about the KoW2 PM?

Why won't they take my money?

kow2 pm is closed latest comment on the ks comments.

Guess I won't be buying any abyssals, succubi, salamanders, naiads or tyrant king Blaines.

Good thing I still have my 1st edition book, too.

Won't FLGSs be getting those units/models or were they KS exclusives?

I thought they backtracked on a promise for a second PM already with Dreadball Xtreme? This just follows the pattern. Even before this promising a second chance at the pledge manager then not doing it after all nonsense, second-round PMs often didn't have the same deals, or some of the miniatures wouldn't be offered anymore.

If I know I want something, I get it on the first go around. If I have to wait to know if I want something, I skip it.

I may be the only one, but I'm glad they aren't reopening the PM, because if the did I'd probably spend more money that would be better spent one something besides minis.

 JoshInJapan wrote:
I may be the only one, but I'm glad they aren't reopening the PM, because if the did I'd probably spend more money that would be better spent one something besides minis.

To quote the Tick, you're going sane in a crazy world.

privateer4hire wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 edlowe wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
When is the PM open?

Has anyone heard about the KoW2 PM?

Why won't they take my money?

kow2 pm is closed latest comment on the ks comments.

Guess I won't be buying any abyssals, succubi, salamanders, naiads or tyrant king Blaines.

Good thing I still have my 1st edition book, too.

Won't FLGSs be getting those units/models or were they KS exclusives?

My FLGSs don't order Mantic minis any more. Miniature Market may liquidate those minis before I get a chance to order them, and they don't seem to restock KoW minis. The direct price will probably not be in line with reasonable expectations, artificially high in the expectation that no one will buy them without a 20 or 30% discount. Retail is not Mantic's friend here.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

My FLGSs don't order Mantic minis any more.

Is that because everyone buys everything they want on kickstarter and not at retail, so they don't bother anymore?

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Mantic may finally be realising that the continual PM re-opening is hurting their retail sales, as well as messing with their production numbers

I suspect this is a test to see how much better/worse sales are if they don't

and as for mantic saying one thing and doing another, it's par for the course, 'we'll show you actual minis befor closing the PM', 'the PM will be open on X', 'we'll use this art to base the minis on' especially if it's Ronnie talking about things as he does get carried away by enthusiasm[/quote]

A table top Peter Molyneux.

 monders wrote:

A table top Peter Molyneux.

Whoah, let's not say things we'll regret

At the very least Kings of War, Dreadball, Deadzone and Mars Attacks are real, are actually fully realised games, and are actually fun, which is just a whole other level compared to Molyneux

 NTRabbit wrote:

 monders wrote:

A table top Peter Molyneux.

Whoah, let's not say things we'll regret

At the very least Kings of War, Dreadball, Deadzone and Mars Attacks are real, are actually fully realised games, and are actually fun, which is just a whole other level compared to Molyneux

Molyneux used to make really fun games. Fun games that didn't do half of the things he claimed they would so disappointing but fun none the less. Now days they just disappointing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah I have seen several game stores that just don't stock most mantic stuff because it just doesn't sell there.

Man, Veer-Myn were such a huge let down as the big "secret race" reveal, and they still look stupid and uninspiring.

Blech.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


My FLGSs don't order Mantic minis any more. Miniature Market may liquidate those minis before I get a chance to order them, and they don't seem to restock KoW minis. The direct price will probably not be in line with reasonable expectations, artificially high in the expectation that no one will buy them without a 20 or 30% discount. Retail is not Mantic's friend here.

 carlos13th wrote:

Yeah I have seen several game stores that just don't stock most mantic stuff because it just doesn't sell there.

True, but on the other hand, retailers are asking for 40%-50% discount of RRP as wholesale so that they actually can sell it with 20% discount and still make profit after expenses, plus possibly return-clauses for stock that hasn't shifted.

Kickstarter takes 5%, Amazon Payment another 3% or so, maybe 5%-10% off/in freebies to wet the appetite of backers, but in turn the company also gains the interest earned on money they get in advanced and save on the interest on loans or forgoes interest potentially earned on advance money invested into moulds, etc.. Not even counting the promotional bonus and/or overspending kickstarter-backers.

I'm all for getting retailers back into the loop a bit more, but the reality of economics means retailers will also need to actually offer producers a deal that'll not leave Mantic & co with considerably worse margins than Kickstarter. No company can afford to continuously just turn down the better deal out of the goodness of their heart.

My local sells at 10% discount

I understand kickstarter gets mantic more profit per product but I wonder if that night be short term profits for long term losses. If retail doesn't stock it then there tends to be a huge post kickstarter drop off with people not playing an unsupported game in their local stores no community being built around the game and player drop off. With the eighth retail support low could be hugely popular as it's a fantastic game however I think their kicksrarter heavy model may be preventing that.

Not saying mantic have do anything out of the goodness of their heart just thinking they be be sacrificing long term growth for short term profits. That's jot certain btw I am not claiming any of it as fact just something worth considering

Wonderwolf wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


My FLGSs don't order Mantic minis any more. Miniature Market may liquidate those minis before I get a chance to order them, and they don't seem to restock KoW minis. The direct price will probably not be in line with reasonable expectations, artificially high in the expectation that no one will buy them without a 20 or 30% discount. Retail is not Mantic's friend here.

 carlos13th wrote:

Yeah I have seen several game stores that just don't stock most mantic stuff because it just doesn't sell there.

True, but on the other hand, retailers are asking for 40%-50% discount of RRP as wholesale so that they actually can sell it with 20% discount and still make profit after expenses, plus possibly return-clauses for stock that hasn't shifted.

Kickstarter takes 5%, Amazon Payment another 3% or so, maybe 5%-10% off/in freebies to wet the appetite of backers, but in turn the company also gains the interest earned on money they get in advanced and save on the interest on loans or forgoes interest potentially earned on advance money invested into moulds, etc.. Not even counting the promotional bonus and/or overspending kickstarter-backers.

Does Kickstarter still use Amazon Payments?

 Alpharius wrote:

Does Kickstarter still use Amazon Payments?

Nope.