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CrashGordon94 wrote:
I'm kind of worried but I was wanting to do DeathRaven anyway.
My main remaining worries are adapting to these dippy formations instead of FOC moving and where I'll put some of my units (Vindicator, Librarian, Tactical Squad and Assault Squad), though perhaps also some HQ concerns.

It's easy enough. To use Detachments, rather than formations, this is what you need/get:

Deathwing:
2 Terminator or Knight squads and 1 Terminator HQ (I'm guessing TDA confers the Deathwing rule)
Gain run+shoot on the Turn your drop, must DS, can choose the Turn if you have any Ravenwing

Ravenwing:
2 Ravenwing or Black Knights squads, 1 biker HQ
Gain Turbo-Jink+normal firing on T1, precision DS for Deathwing.

Green:
CAD, so two troops and an HQ.



Or you can just use a CAD for everything, with your DW in Elites and your RW in FA.

Well the wording is specifically:
"Any model in this unit that is equipped with a Storm Shield (including models with the Independent Character Rule that have joined it) ...."

So it seems to me the IC clause is to extend the "any model in this unit" part. They lack a StormS hield, so they don't get the bonus. Which means you still get majority toughness, but if only 2 knights are left - no T5 anymore.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
No option for ew like every other book gets.

You mean "like only Space Marines get"?

No I mean like

Space marines
Space wolves
Orks
Chaos space marines
Not sure about eldar as haven't read it properly yet
Imperial guard if I remember correctly.

Every army should have access to either an ew character or a wargear option that allows it, space marine have lysander (should not have ew anyway but that a different topic), calgar, shield eternal.

I'm sorry if this was covered earlier but did the storm raven make it into the codex and did Azrael get put into a lord of war slot? Thanks for the leaks, Thairn, btw.

And we have Sammael that has had EW in the last codex too...?

 Formosa wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
No option for ew like every other book gets.

You mean "like only Space Marines get"?

No I mean like

Space marines
Space wolves
Orks
Chaos space marines
Not sure about eldar as haven't read it properly yet
Imperial guard if I remember correctly.

Every army should have access to either an ew character or a wargear option that allows it, space marine have lysander (should not have ew anyway but that a different topic), calgar, shield eternal.

Sammael had EW in the last codex. I haven't seen leaks that say otherwise but I may be wrong.

so, Skyhammer Annihilation Force, Ravenwing and Deathwing. So much in your face!

Yeah Sammy is vastly overcosted last book, but an option would be nice, like the adamantine mantle as an option for example, I don't like having to take special characters if I can avoid it haha

Did I read that right, that Ravenwing Command Squad can add 3 more bikers, upping them to 6 in a unit? That's a nice small change!

 raiden wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
... 10" S10 AP2 Ignore Cover Blast? Seriously?

But all this rules, formations and detachments... I will need so many new models. Well played GW. Well played.

marines have it, and I have already playtested it ( i own 3 old vindicators) and it is completely worthless for 360pts. Seriously, it's not as giood as you'd think, the blast really isnt that much larger to matter and your only getting single hits on things like MC's and vehicles with short range on an unwieldy tank unit that gets in the way.

Good bye scatter bikes...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or. In other words if you are shooting it at MCs or lone non dangerous vehicles you're using it wrong

Ah 24" range and the blast is not that big chief. Your not gona kill jack for scat bikes. 360 points for a 3 man unit generally. But go ahead and act like you know what your talking about.

 Whumbachumba wrote:


Did I read that right, that Ravenwing Command Squad can add 3 more bikers, upping them to 6 in a unit? That's a nice small change!

The previous FAQ allowed 10.

 Thairne wrote:
The way I read it, only if they have a Stormshield too.

Regardless, that's friggin' cool, man!

"Give them nothing! But take from them, everything!!"

axisofentropy wrote:

 Whumbachumba wrote:


Did I read that right, that Ravenwing Command Squad can add 3 more bikers, upping them to 6 in a unit? That's a nice small change!

The previous FAQ allowed 10.

Command Squad was previously only allowed 2 more Ravenwing Black Knights. It was the Black Knight squad that could go up to 10.

Still no Landspeeder Storm option for DA Scouts?

Paradigm wrote:

CrashGordon94 wrote:
I'm kind of worried but I was wanting to do DeathRaven anyway.
My main remaining worries are adapting to these dippy formations instead of FOC moving and where I'll put some of my units (Vindicator, Librarian, Tactical Squad and Assault Squad), though perhaps also some HQ concerns.

It's easy enough. To use Detachments, rather than formations, this is what you need/get:

Deathwing:
2 Terminator or Knight squads and 1 Terminator HQ (I'm guessing TDA confers the Deathwing rule)
Gain run+shoot on the Turn your drop, must DS, can choose the Turn if you have any Ravenwing

Ravenwing:
2 Ravenwing or Black Knights squads, 1 biker HQ
Gain Turbo-Jink+normal firing on T1, precision DS for Deathwing.

Green:
CAD, so two troops and an HQ.



Or you can just use a CAD for everything, with your DW in Elites and your RW in FA.

The triple trouble setup seems reasonable enough, only issue is I'd need another thing of Troops (Only one i have now is a singular Tactical Squad. Admittedly 10-man but only one Segeant and nobody else who could pass for one).

A singular CAD won't work without FOC moving. I already have too many Terminators and Dreadnoughts and I'd only have room for one more Bike Squad (of any sort).

 Timotheus wrote:

I'd like to simulate this in a game tonight. Do I understand correctly that I can take this formation as one Techmarine, one Land Raider, and one Predator?

The two vehicles form a squadron? I think there's a lot of possibilities with Land Raiders in squadrons with AV 13 Predators and Vindicators.

All of them get Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter special rules?

The techmarine grants the Land Raider BS5 while embarked? Or both vehicles?

 Thairne wrote:


Speed of the Raven:
All units may turbo boost and are considered jinking until your next turn. May fire weapons normally.

United Assault:
All units must be either placed in reserve or be deployed normally.
If in reserve, all units arrive automatically.

I'll try this too. Can they use Speed of the Raven only on the first turn or all turns? They fire normally on their NEXT turn right? And they re-roll all of those turbo jink saves because reasons?

The images aren't loading for me at work. Did the terminators see the same reduction in points that was in C:SM?

Wow. After seeing the new rules for Ravenwing, I apologize for the nit-picking I was doing earlier. The formation rules for them seem pretty awesome!

Back in 5th ed, my C:SM army typically ran with 3 Squadrons of 3 Land Speeder Typhoons - they were some of my favorite units in that army. With the squadrons get Interceptor and Strafing Run? WOW! Those are gonna be fun to play!

I wonder what the elite choice is that Ravenwing can take, was thinking Bike command squad but it seems to be listed with normal Dark Knights so not sure. Same with HQs. There must be some mechanic that allows you to become ravewing otherwise Sammael is the only HQ that is ravewing...

that support sqd for ravenwing is really nice. 3 landspeeders and a vengeance that intercepts and has BS 5 vs all non flyers. I love Ravenwing

Imagine, RW with scout and turbo boosting turn 1 with darkshroud support. 36" in your face with 3+ rerollable cover (2+ for black knights) firing at better than BS1 overwatch and full BS following turn. Such shenanigans!

Isn't that Trephination power better than psyhic shriek??

It's a focussed witchfire.... good to snipe models rather than just the unit.

Or did I read that wrong?

Is there a good reason why this isn't part of army selection?

Step1: Choose a HQ in terminator armor.
Step 2: Units of Terminators are now Troops.
Step 3: Enjoy your game of 40K.

Is it that hard? A few lines of text in a little gray box tucked in a corner of a bloated codex? Let the people who want to play Formationhammer have their special rules and face-melting combos, while the minority of us just want to play with our termies, dreads, and land raiders like the good old days. For feth's sake.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Is there a good reason why this isn't part of army selection?

Step1: Choose a HQ in terminator armor.
Step 2: Units of Terminators are now Troops.
Step 3: Enjoy your game of 40K.

Is it that hard? A few lines of text in a little gray box tucked in a corner of a bloated codex? Let the people who want to play Formationhammer have their special rules and face-melting combos, while the minority of us just want to play with our termies, dreads, and land raiders like the good old days. For feth's sake.

Just because you don't like change doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.

Honestly to me, this style feels much more organized, even if it is a little more limiting.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Is there a good reason why this isn't part of army selection?

Step1: Choose a HQ in terminator armor.
Step 2: Units of Terminators are now Troops.
Step 3: Enjoy your game of 40K.

Is it that hard? A few lines of text in a little gray box tucked in a corner of a bloated codex? Let the people who want to play Formationhammer have their special rules and face-melting combos, while the minority of us just want to play with our termies, dreads, and land raiders like the good old days. For feth's sake.

Erh. Can't you just run the Deathwing detachment that has been leaked a few pages back?

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

 Death By Monkeys wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Ravenwings turbo boost turn 1 into your deploy. They are close to immune to shooting that round.

Okay, I'm hearing a lot of how Ravenwing will be largely immune to shooting. This isn't Invisibility they're getting. They're getting a cover save. It's a re-rollable cover save, but it's a cover save nonetheless. And because cover saves have already gotten so common, more and more armies are already loaded for bear with 'Ignores Cover Save' weapons.

Will it be good? Yes. I believe it will be effective. But I think only because people won't be able to pack enough 'Ignores Cover Save' weapons. But I think there will be some armies (Tau) that just won't care.

Ignores Cover is quite difficult to get. Imperial armies usually can only get it by having either Perfect Timing or Imperial Guard Senior Officers, or Wyverns and Thundercannons and Whirlwinds, all of which don't do AP3. Once the sources of Ignores Cover go down, the RW quickly become unmanageable, especially if the entire force has it by default. Ditto for Tau and other races. Skyhammer now provides a reliable turn 1 way of engaging the sources of Ignores Cover.

Not to mention it's inbuilt unlike Fortune so it can't be denied. An entire army of re-rollable 2+ saves isn't hugely difficult to accomplish either.

If Imperial Armies want Ignore cover and AP1 melta weapons - that will be Adepta Sororitas Dominions then oh and with Scout too............

 Zewrath wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Is there a good reason why this isn't part of army selection?

Step1: Choose a HQ in terminator armor.
Step 2: Units of Terminators are now Troops.
Step 3: Enjoy your game of 40K.

Is it that hard? A few lines of text in a little gray box tucked in a corner of a bloated codex? Let the people who want to play Formationhammer have their special rules and face-melting combos, while the minority of us just want to play with our termies, dreads, and land raiders like the good old days. For feth's sake.

Erh. Can't you just run the Deathwing detachment that has been leaked a few pages back?

no, apparently he wants his Terminators as troops and then take other support like a normal CAD.
Not sure I agree with that, Terminators are elites (regardless of rules in the past) and you have been given a way to still field them singularly. Not sure why they have to be Troops.

 Formosa wrote:
Every army should have access to either an ew character or a wargear option that allows it, space marine have lysander (should not have ew anyway but that a different topic), calgar, shield eternal.

Every army doesn't need to have access to the same stuff. That's kind of the whole point of having different armies.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Is there a good reason why this isn't part of army selection?

Step1: Choose a HQ in terminator armor.
Step 2: Units of Terminators are now Troops.
Step 3: Enjoy your game of 40K.

Is it that hard? A few lines of text in a little gray box tucked in a corner of a bloated codex? Let the people who want to play Formationhammer have their special rules and face-melting combos, while the minority of us just want to play with our termies, dreads, and land raiders like the good old days. For feth's sake.

FOC-shifting went away when Unbound became a thing.

 insaniak wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Every army should have access to either an ew character or a wargear option that allows it, space marine have lysander (should not have ew anyway but that a different topic), calgar, shield eternal.

Every army doesn't need to have access to the same stuff. That's kind of the whole point of having different armies.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Is there a good reason why this isn't part of army selection?

Step1: Choose a HQ in terminator armor.
Step 2: Units of Terminators are now Troops.
Step 3: Enjoy your game of 40K.

Is it that hard? A few lines of text in a little gray box tucked in a corner of a bloated codex? Let the people who want to play Formationhammer have their special rules and face-melting combos, while the minority of us just want to play with our termies, dreads, and land raiders like the good old days. For feth's sake.

FOC-shifting went away when Unbound became a thing.

Except for Space Marines, who still get Troops Bikes. Even easier now, in this edition.