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Hey, after a long weekend at the Caledonian the top spot was taken by the ETC English captain sporting a rather savage Eldar/Tau list with no less than 7 RIPTIDES (and a mandatory wraithknight).


My question is how does one best go about dismantling riptides ( or rather Burst-tides), which army or unit combination does the job either in terms of tying them down or simply removing them?

What army do you play?

Leadership are one of their weaknesses.

Grav, same as every other monstrous creature. At least you're not assured of getting wiped out during interceptor if he's taking the HBC instead of the IA.

You could just join the team england 40k facebook page and ask us there.

As for hard counters, close combat hurts it, as does grav and deathstars (since its useless in combat, wolf stars and the equivilent with invis rolls through it).

Josh is a great player but he did get quite lucky with his matchups. Bare in mind cally is only 5 games, so don't assume its the list which is unbeatable, its part luck on matchups and the players ability.

Its the same thing people usually use before the 7th codex dropped. 3 solo riptides, just now they are a bit more dangerous if not dealt with. Its still around half of the damn army in points (675pts with stims/ewo/IA)

Grav weapons, ID, or things involving Leadership or Init work great against them. Melee too but that can sometimes be difficult to do.
Even though its a bit painful with the formation perks and 3 of them in general, but if you cannot reliably damage them then dont go for them. The 1-3 Lascannons or other such AP2 weapons you may have wont do much, and you're better off splatting crisis suits or taking out vehicles. Strip their support the riptides become less of a threat, and they cant do much alone.

I mentioned the ignoring part to my friends that always struggle and when they finally started doing that until they can reliably cause multiple wounds a turn they started doing a lot better against me. Riptide is a tank first, gun platform second. Unless you can pierce the tank reliably, youre letting it do its job of being a tank.

@Vineheart

I was thinking more about riptide wing as a stand alone formation.

For 550 points 3 riptides just isnt that durable. I mean even with re-rolls, nova charging is risky, then theres over-heating added on to that. Without marker lights they just dont have the accuracy to be good.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Its the same thing people usually use before the 7th codex dropped. 3 solo riptides, just now they are a bit more dangerous if not dealt with. Its still around half of the damn army in points (675pts with stims/ewo/IA)

Grav weapons, ID, or things involving Leadership or Init work great against them. Melee too but that can sometimes be difficult to do.
Even though its a bit painful with the formation perks and 3 of them in general, but if you cannot reliably damage them then dont go for them. The 1-3 Lascannons or other such AP2 weapons you may have wont do much, and you're better off splatting crisis suits or taking out vehicles. Strip their support the riptides become less of a threat, and they cant do much alone.

I mentioned the ignoring part to my friends that always struggle and when they finally started doing that until they can reliably cause multiple wounds a turn they started doing a lot better against me. Riptide is a tank first, gun platform second. Unless you can pierce the tank reliably, youre letting it do its job of being a tank.

But that's way too much durability for 675. They can do plenty alone, because they never die.

I love to face Riptides. My current army is Dark Eldar (part codex and part Haemonculus Coven) with Harlequin Allies. Hitting Riptides with a Psychic Shriek on a -4 to -8Ld modifier is always fun.

There is no efficient way to kill riptides that isn't d weapons. The answer is - take D weapons. Force is another good way to kill them but it requires you take a lot dreadknights . Even grav cannons struggle against riptides. Because at 5 wounds with a 4+cover and a 5+ FNP you have to wound the thing like 14 times before you kill it. A Centurian squad that puts that kind of hurt down needs a drop pod and costs way more than a riptide.

To really counter this list I think you need to bring like. 3 IK with no guns - just the Dweapon and claw. The rest take Dreadknights with no guns and force sword upgrade and personal teleporter. You should probably kill them with about 50% of your units left over.

Another thing you can do is take a ton of hemlock wraith fighters and just spam PS.

They still get FNP vs the shriek, but sure. Sounds good. I've considered getting a Warden to get with my BA just to go stomp Riptides.

A nice trick is to multi assault Riptide + a weak unit. Since they are not fearless you can nab an unexpected sweep that way. Not always gonna have spots like that, but it is possible.

They should be fearless, as nothing can hurt them, lol.

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is no efficient way to kill riptides that isn't d weapons. The answer is - take D weapons. Force is another good way to kill them but it requires you take a lot dreadknights . Even grav cannons struggle against riptides. Because at 5 wounds with a 4+cover and a 5+ FNP you have to wound the thing like 14 times before you kill it. A Centurian squad that puts that kind of hurt down needs a drop pod and costs way more than a riptide.

To really counter this list I think you need to bring like. 3 IK with no guns - just the Dweapon and claw. The rest take Dreadknights with no guns and force sword upgrade and personal teleporter. You should probably kill them with about 50% of your units left over.

Another thing you can do is take a ton of hemlock wraith fighters and just spam PS.

Lets see here:
Poison
Morale Tests
Force Weapons
D
Grav
AP2
Melee (either directly killing or tying up in combat)

Any of those will wreck riptides

Aside from D, yes there isnt any easy counter to Riptides. There isnt suppose to be an "easy" counter to everything, but since its not a GMC it can be ID and it doesnt have Stomp so melee is very effective against it.

As Notredameguy10 said those are ways to wreck riptides. Directly anyway. As others have mentioned, riptides on their own are hinging on a lot of dice luck to be effective (3+ w/ reroll for Nova, 1/6th change Gets Hot completely nullifies their shooting, base BS3 so they can miss often). Stripping their support is almost always the better option.

Usually when my support for my riptides die, they either continue to own because i just never miss anything or they continue the rest of the game (3-4 turns) and do nothing except spew out 4 SMS shots, since those rarely miss. Ive also had games where they nuked themselves down to 2 wounds which put them in easy-to-kill range.

Theres answers for them. Just because there isnt anything CHEAPER than the Riptide to kill it doesnt mean its op. Not like its sporting D weapons or anything on top of its durability. If theyre OP at all its the safety the IA offers, not the Riptide's defenses. It shouldnt be AP2 by default when its essentially the same damn thing as the Ion Cannon with Nova profile attached...so why is it stronger without nova? It should be a 36" S7 AP3 3 Shots normal, or S8 AP3 Large Blast Gets Hot overcharge, or S9 AP2 Large Blast Gets Hot with Novacharge. Riptide has an unexplained in terms of points extra wound because its expected to take 1-2 damage per game from Novas, while the IA completely negates that risk since it doesnt need it anymore so now its not only deadly with AP2 weapons but has more bulk.

They can be swept in assault correct?

Yoyoyo wrote:
They can be swept in assault correct?

MC are fearless so I am not sure that they can be swept.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
They can be swept in assault correct?

MC are fearless so I am not sure that they can be swept.

MC are not fearless.

They have fear, but not fearless

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is no efficient way to kill riptides that isn't d weapons. The answer is - take D weapons. Force is another good way to kill them but it requires you take a lot dreadknights . Even grav cannons struggle against riptides. Because at 5 wounds with a 4+cover and a 5+ FNP you have to wound the thing like 14 times before you kill it. A Centurian squad that puts that kind of hurt down needs a drop pod and costs way more than a riptide.

To really counter this list I think you need to bring like. 3 IK with no guns - just the Dweapon and claw. The rest take Dreadknights with no guns and force sword upgrade and personal teleporter. You should probably kill them with about 50% of your units left over.

Another thing you can do is take a ton of hemlock wraith fighters and just spam PS.

Lets see here:
Poison
Morale Tests
Force Weapons
D
Grav
AP2
Melee (either directly killing or tying up in combat)

Any of those will wreck riptides

Riptides are fuctionally immune to every poison weapon in the game.
You can't catch a riptide, even with bikers or jump troops so they are functionally immune to melee.
Most ap 2 weapons have a pitiful rate of fire, so the riptide doesn't care about those, either.
Standard grav platforms like bikers will get nuked off the table by ignore cover ias before they can fire.
Drop grav cents are too expensive to effectively counter the riptide.
Force weapon wielders likewise can't catch the riptide to assault it.

The only reliable method is ranged D.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
They can be swept in assault correct?

MC are fearless so I am not sure that they can be swept.

MCs aren't Fearless base. The Riptide is the only non-fearless MC in the game, currently.

*Ninjad

Other than the Ghostkeel, but yes.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is no efficient way to kill riptides that isn't d weapons. The answer is - take D weapons. Force is another good way to kill them but it requires you take a lot dreadknights . Even grav cannons struggle against riptides. Because at 5 wounds with a 4+cover and a 5+ FNP you have to wound the thing like 14 times before you kill it. A Centurian squad that puts that kind of hurt down needs a drop pod and costs way more than a riptide.

To really counter this list I think you need to bring like. 3 IK with no guns - just the Dweapon and claw. The rest take Dreadknights with no guns and force sword upgrade and personal teleporter. You should probably kill them with about 50% of your units left over.

Another thing you can do is take a ton of hemlock wraith fighters and just spam PS.

Lets see here:
Poison
Morale Tests
Force Weapons
D
Grav
AP2
Melee (either directly killing or tying up in combat)

Any of those will wreck riptides

I said efficient - not "able to harm". the only thing I didn't actually mention in so many words was poison because it's actually not - you wanna dump 30 posion shots into a riptide and to average 1 wound? Waste of your time. It one shots your squad next turn. grav does a good job but a riptide really isn't that expensive and get get a 3++ and are usually cheaper than the grav squad thats has a chance to bring it down in 1 turn. This leaves Force and D as the really only reliable options because #1 they ignore the FNP #2 only need 1-2 wounds to get the job done even on gargantuan MC.

Martel732 wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is no efficient way to kill riptides that isn't d weapons. The answer is - take D weapons. Force is another good way to kill them but it requires you take a lot dreadknights . Even grav cannons struggle against riptides. Because at 5 wounds with a 4+cover and a 5+ FNP you have to wound the thing like 14 times before you kill it. A Centurian squad that puts that kind of hurt down needs a drop pod and costs way more than a riptide.

To really counter this list I think you need to bring like. 3 IK with no guns - just the Dweapon and claw. The rest take Dreadknights with no guns and force sword upgrade and personal teleporter. You should probably kill them with about 50% of your units left over.

Another thing you can do is take a ton of hemlock wraith fighters and just spam PS.

Lets see here:
Poison
Morale Tests
Force Weapons
D
Grav
AP2
Melee (either directly killing or tying up in combat)

Any of those will wreck riptides

Riptides are fuctionally immune to every poison weapon in the game.
You can't catch a riptide, even with bikers or jump troops so they are functionally immune to melee.
Most ap 2 weapons have a pitiful rate of fire, so the riptide doesn't care about those, either.
Standard grav platforms like bikers will get nuked off the table by ignore cover ias before they can fire.
Drop grav cents are too expensive to effectively counter the riptide.
Force weapon wielders likewise can't catch the riptide to assault it.

The only reliable method is ranged D.

Um how are they immune to "every poison weapon in the game"?

Cant catch a riptide? They move 6 inches and have a random jetpack move

Really? I can think of plenty of rapid fire and other AP2 weapons that can tear through riptides.

Lol at someone saying grav cents are too expensive for what they do. Riptides are all about tanking damage, not actually dishing it out. So the same number of points of other models SHOULDN'T be able to kill a riptide in one turn

Martel732 wrote:

Riptides are fuctionally immune to every poison weapon in the game.
You can't catch a riptide, even with bikers or jump troops so they are functionally immune to melee.
Most ap 2 weapons have a pitiful rate of fire, so the riptide doesn't care about those, either.
Standard grav platforms like bikers will get nuked off the table by ignore cover ias before they can fire.
Drop grav cents are too expensive to effectively counter the riptide.
Force weapon wielders likewise can't catch the riptide to assault it.

The only reliable method is ranged D.

Riptides can spontaneously combust from Nova Reactors. Trust me, I've seen it happen far too many times.

My Praetorians and Wraiths never have a problem catching Riptides in CC.

Also, Riptides can be ignored. In a normal game (not with 7 Riptides), kill their markerlight supports. In scenarios such as this, tie them up in CC. There's only so far they can before they get to the edge of the board, and without markerlights, they're not as scary.

Riptides don't dish damage? Spoken like a true tau player. The riptide is one of the most unfair things in the but its aokay because it's in your list, huh?

The nova reactor thing is such a joke. Oh look! I took a single wound after melting your entire list! It's such a limitation!

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
They can be swept in assault correct?

MC are fearless so I am not sure that they can be swept.

MCs aren't Fearless base. The Riptide is the only non-fearless MC in the game, currently.

*Ninjad

Thank you for the clarification - I play mostly marines so I'm pretty lacking and most every MC I have encountered was fearless so I really thought it was universal lol.

Martel732 wrote:
Riptides don't dish damage? Spoken like a true tau player. The riptide is one of the most unfair things in the but its aokay because it's in your list, huh?

lol its a 200+ point model that has to pass a gets hot roll to shoot 1 single LB Str 8 AP2 (for an IA)
And then 4 Str 5 Ap5 shots from a secondary weapon.
At BS3

Yeah I would say that is not very high damage output for the cost

Better than anything in my list.

As far as tanking, a 200 pt model shouldn't be able to tank an entire list. Which it can.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Riptides are fuctionally immune to every poison weapon in the game.
You can't catch a riptide, even with bikers or jump troops so they are functionally immune to melee.
Most ap 2 weapons have a pitiful rate of fire, so the riptide doesn't care about those, either.
Standard grav platforms like bikers will get nuked off the table by ignore cover ias before they can fire.
Drop grav cents are too expensive to effectively counter the riptide.
Force weapon wielders likewise can't catch the riptide to assault it.

The only reliable method is ranged D.

Riptides can spontaneously combust from Nova Reactors. Trust me, I've seen it happen far too many times.

My Praetorians and Wraiths never have a problem catching Riptides in CC.

Also, Riptides can be ignored. In a normal game (not with 7 Riptides), kill their markerlight supports. In scenarios such as this, tie them up in CC. There's only so far they can before they get to the edge of the board, and without markerlights, they're not as scary.

army of wraiths or wolf star will work too (wolves really need the first turn to get spells up) (wraiths would really like to go first too)

most poison weapons tend not to have have great ap or have a low rate of fire. Between the riptides armor, invul, fnp and amount of wounds poison isn't a great option.