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2016/03/08 01:14:44
Subject: Re:Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
I was just in a local FLGS. They had the old Colonial Militia 30 guys for 24. They had the new Colonial Milita 30 guys for 29. Ditto the British Line Infantry. That's a 5 dollar increase, not bad.
Now, the WGF Orcs were what, 24 for 24 dollars? Now if you wanted 24 you're paying 40.
Stlll not 4 X the old price.
.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase.
2016/03/08 03:41:11
Subject: Re:Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
I was just in a local FLGS. They had the old Colonial Militia 30 guys for 24. They had the new Colonial Milita 30 guys for 29. Ditto the British Line Infantry. That's a 5 dollar increase, not bad.
Now, the WGF Orcs were what, 24 for 24 dollars? Now if you wanted 24 you're paying 40.
Stlll not 4 X the old price.
They're talking specifically about the survivor kits. The AWI stuff is actually better than WGF in my opinion because of the included painting guide (saves a ridiculous amount of research to find out what coats and facings some random regiment from 177x wore for summer campaign) and awesome flags by flag historian Dr. Lesley Prince (this time saving money from buying flags from The Flag Dude or someone else online)
For me, I will probably pick up the modern military guys but will wind up waiting til Warlord does one of their 50% Off All Plastic Sprues sales they do once every 6 to 9 months (I may be a Warlord fan but I also like deals!)
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2016/03/08 04:32:37
Subject: Re:Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
Currently looking up posts about Akula's 2-page zombie rules. Akula's rules use a card-activation mechanic (for unpredictability!), 300+ zombies, and 6-12 survivors. Enjoy.
ced1106 wrote: Currently looking up posts about Akula's 2-page zombie rules. Akula's rules use a card-activation mechanic (for unpredictability!), 300+ zombies, and 6-12 survivors. Enjoy.
Thanks for the links, though it appears his rules are 404'ing. Anyone have a link that works?
If Warlord were smart, they would have gone for easy-to-learn/teach rules that allow teams of survivors to cooperatively go head to head against the zombie hordes, or alternately play competitively if they so choose. I think the focus on eliminating the opposing gang first and foremost, with some minor zombie threats at the beginning of the game, sort of leaves a lackluster feeling of hopelessness and more Necromunda/TNT lite.
~iPaint
iPaint's Workbench - a blog for all of my painting endeavors
Currently painting: 20mm WW2, 28mm Zombicide
In the pipeline: 28mm Reaper Bones, Dwarven Forge Game Tiles
2016/03/08 07:13:42
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.
No one is expecting companies to cater to their every need but they do expect to spend more money with those who do. I and many others have explained reasons why they have lost interest in this offering from warlord. If you are all for it and want it that's great I am glad you feel its worth your time and money but your reasons for wanting this game are not more or less valuable than those who don't. If the value isn't there for someone no amount of comments about the cost of distribution or about target audience is going to matter to them. If the value was there for a person then they might purchase dispite apparently not being the target audience. However I am pretty sure warlord would want more of their stuff sold rather than less nomatter who is picking up the models.
If this is the best business choice for warlord then good for them I hope it goes well but that doesn't make peoples reasons for deciding against picking this up any less legit. We can like and value different things.
2016/03/08 08:56:19
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
Comments about "they want you to play their game so they increased the price" make me laugh. It is so backwards. You don't get more people to play your game by decreasing demand for it (price up => demand down). No doubt that good rules sell miniatures, one of the great things is that with cool/useful enough miniatures, they don't even have to be your own rules. Why not let your own rules, and other companies/individuals rules sell your miniatures?
Instead, Warlord is taking the "bet the farm on our simple zombie game rules" approach.
Cue somebody trying to argue that increasing prices will create more demand for the game in 3,2,1...
2016/03/08 11:12:08
Subject: Re:Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
I was just in a local FLGS. They had the old Colonial Militia 30 guys for 24. They had the new Colonial Milita 30 guys for 29. Ditto the British Line Infantry. That's a 5 dollar increase, not bad.
Now, the WGF Orcs were what, 24 for 24 dollars? Now if you wanted 24 you're paying 40.
Stlll not 4 X the old price.
30 WGF figures £18, 10 of the same from Warlord £15.00, so 2.5x the price to be exact. And that's with going from being an "import" to being "local". It's probably gonna be even worse for those in the US, where the reverse is happening.
I only want a few of the boxes, the survivors and biker gang kits, to use as conversion parts for Fallout after seeing Wyrmallas fantastic conversions, so I'm waiting til! Warlord sells the kits individually.
And if they don't, if they only offer this bundle deal? Then they're cheating themselves out of a sale.
2016/03/08 11:48:25
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
The problem with the starter is that it's only a deal for those who want that specific mix of miniatures and/or have the time and interest to sell the chaff. Still, it is worth considering, and I may eventually get one if I find someone who wants the zombies or come up with some sort of non-zombie project for them, like Terminators. I'd prefer the kit had female survivors rather than male because I have a surplus of male miniatures as it is.
What I don't get is why Warlord is pricing the historical kits so reasonably and the survivor, modern and zombie kits so badly. For GoA, the 'sci fi tax' makes sense, but for generic modern miniatures and zombies? That's like charging people a decent price for chocolate and then hiking the price of vanilla up to the same band as Komodo Dragon Crunch and Rhino Horn Cookie Dough.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/08 17:24:21
Marleymoo wrote: Can I just point out again about these box sets:-
"Also includes game cards unique to this expansion set."
These cards also have a monetary value. Comparing the price of these re-released boxes and not taking this into consideration is a bit unfair.
Although, a few cards shouldn't increase the price that much I suppose.
It is completely fair. Those cards do not have value for anyone who is not already a loyal customer interested in using the minis for Warlord's game. They do nothing at all to lure in new customers while the price increase does quite a bit to push them away. If the game had glowing reviews and a critical mass of players, then the cards might make a difference for someone trying to decide between buying a Warlord kit and some competitor's kit, but since the reviews have not been favorable those cards will not be pulling their weight.
Also, if you are looking forward to this game, would you say the cards are as valuable to you as 20 more miniatures?
Marleymoo wrote: Can I just point out again about these box sets:-
"Also includes game cards unique to this expansion set."
These cards also have a monetary value. Comparing the price of these re-released boxes and not taking this into consideration is a bit unfair.
Although, a few cards shouldn't increase the price that much I suppose.
It is completely fair. Those cards do not have value for anyone who is not already a loyal customer interested in using the minis for Warlord's game. They do nothing at all to lure in new customers while the price increase does quite a bit to push them away. If the game had glowing reviews and a critical mass of players, then the cards might make a difference for someone trying to decide between buying a Warlord kit and some competitor's kit, but since the reviews have not been favorable those cards will not be pulling their weight.
Also, if you are looking forward to this game, would you say the cards are as valuable to you as 20 more miniatures?
Considering I'd need them to play the game, yes.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2017/03/08 20:20:45
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
I got a chance to look through the free rulebook. What is the Survivors' Guide for Dummies? It sounds like everything you need to actually play the game is located in it.
Lucky for you, then, that Warlord chose to fit them in the box at only the expense of 20 other minis rather than fitting them into the main rulebook or selling the cards in packs. Certainly, it would have been impossible for Warlord to put the rules online for free and risk people trying out their game with other miniatures, possibly even deciding they like it. Sure, those cards will be more of a hindrance to expanding the player base than a help since it devalues the miniatures so very much for anyone not already invested in playing the game, but it shouldn't bother you that you will find fewer people to play against and have a much harder time converting new players when they have so many free or much more popular zombie game alternatives already on the market, right?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Barzam wrote: I got a chance to look through the free rulebook. What is the Survivors' Guide for Dummies? It sounds like everything you need to actually play the game is located in it.
Basically the first draft of World War Z.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/08 21:11:12
Perhaps there's a thread about gnolls in need of some salt.
While I'm not a fan of the card based activation system, I'm definitely going to pick up the base game and give it a shot. Worse case scenario, it's a meh experience (and I can promise it's not going to have been the worst game I've ever played) and I get a good deal on models I can use. Best case scenario, it's awesome and really fun and I get some cool models cheap. Am I going to buy the expansions? Eh.. maybe the soldiers.
I'm really kicking myself now though for not backing the Battle Systems KS :/
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/08 21:32:49
Lucky for you, then, that Warlord chose to fit them in the box at only the expense of 20 other minis rather than fitting them into the main rulebook or selling the cards in packs. Certainly, it would have been impossible for Warlord to put the rules online for free and risk people trying out their game with other miniatures, possibly even deciding they like it. Sure, those cards will be more of a hindrance to expanding the player base than a help since it devalues the miniatures so very much for anyone not already invested in playing the game, but it shouldn't bother you that you will find fewer people to play against and have a much harder time converting new players when they have so many free or much more popular zombie game alternatives already on the market, right?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Barzam wrote: I got a chance to look through the free rulebook. What is the Survivors' Guide for Dummies? It sounds like everything you need to actually play the game is located in it.
Basically the first draft of World War Z.
I'm sorry a toy business made you upset.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2016/03/08 23:03:07
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
Anyway, maybe the concern is another Rakham. With Confrontation and AT-43, Rackham went from a miniatures hobby company to an ex-parrot game line.
With Project Z, Wargames Factory's zombie miniatures turns from a "cheap but good" line of miniatures, to "yet another zombie" game. They're pretty much abandoning a niche they owned to compete in a saturated market, assuming you're one of those gamers who will play a miniatures ruleset without needing to buy its line of miniatures.
At least the good thing about Project Z is that I've found some other new zombie rulesets I'd like to try out!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/08 23:11:06
Anyway, maybe the concern is another Rakham. With Confrontation and AT-43, Rackham went from a miniatures hobby company to an ex-parrot game line.
With Project Z, Wargames Factory's zombie miniatures turns from a "cheap but good" line of miniatures, to "yet another zombie" game. They're pretty much abandoning a niche they owned to compete in a saturated market, assuming you're one of those gamers who will play a miniatures ruleset without needing to buy its line of miniatures.
At least the good thing about Project Z is that I've found some other new zombie rulesets I'd like to try out!
lol. Yeah, I'm an open book. There's always the danger of a company losing out. As I said before, some increase was going to happen anyway because I'm sure WGF wasn't just handing out the rights to their minis. Some ranges would be valued higher than others, depending on competition, etc. There aren't a lot of plastic, modern zombie and survivor minis is out there in HIPS but there are a lot of other historical HIPS products so I wouldn't be surprised if WGF valued these higher which would leave Warlord with some decisions to make. Who knows, that's one take on it or we can just assume that Warlord, a company with numerous reasonably priced kits suddenly became horrendously greedy.
Either way, they won't go out of business if this line tanks since they're already not dependent upon its success for their survival.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2016/03/09 04:36:25
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
Only as much as criticism of a toy company upset you.
On the positive side, the biker gang looks really good and I was really excited to get them. No doubt they will eventually end up in some kind of deal or eBay store that makes them worth my while, and that will be a great day. The modern soldiers look so good that I'll probably cave and get them at their current price, although I'll feel just terrible. I can at least make one SG team and some of Doc Brown's Libyan friends from a single sprue, so there's that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Now, if you'll excuse me, it sounds like some plastic gnolls need my attention.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/09 04:36:53
Anyway, maybe the concern is another Rakham. With Confrontation and AT-43, Rackham went from a miniatures hobby company to an ex-parrot game line.
With Project Z, Wargames Factory's zombie miniatures turns from a "cheap but good" line of miniatures, to "yet another zombie" game. They're pretty much abandoning a niche they owned to compete in a saturated market, assuming you're one of those gamers who will play a miniatures ruleset without needing to buy its line of miniatures.
At least the good thing about Project Z is that I've found some other new zombie rulesets I'd like to try out!
Sorry man, but I was a playtester and sentinel for Rackham up through their final death throes. The dumbing down of Confrontation was merely the last in a long string of bone headed business moves that pushed them into an untimely gave. While I'm not impressed with the Project Z rules either, unless they can manage to royally piss off their historical fan base, the fate of Project Z (and probably Anteres too) isn't going to bring them down.
2016/03/09 05:11:27
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
Anyway, maybe the concern is another Rakham. With Confrontation and AT-43, Rackham went from a miniatures hobby company to an ex-parrot game line.
With Project Z, Wargames Factory's zombie miniatures turns from a "cheap but good" line of miniatures, to "yet another zombie" game. They're pretty much abandoning a niche they owned to compete in a saturated market, assuming you're one of those gamers who will play a miniatures ruleset without needing to buy its line of miniatures.
At least the good thing about Project Z is that I've found some other new zombie rulesets I'd like to try out!
Sorry man, but I was a playtester and sentinel for Rackham up through their final death throes. The dumbing down of Confrontation was merely the last in a long string of bone headed business moves that pushed them into an untimely gave. While I'm not impressed with the Project Z rules either, unless they can manage to royally piss off their historical fan base, the fate of Project Z (and probably Anteres too) isn't going to bring them down.
If Warlord can survive those horrible Judge Dredd sculpts, the insane Antares pricing, and out of scale plastic terrain, I really don't think this one will do them in either.
All of which I think are fairly minor negatives in terms of the overall quality of product that Warlord put out, which for the most part is pretty damned good. A lot of those negatives are also subjective; 'expensive', not so much when you compare to what a lot of people I know will spend on even a small FW or AoS force, and a lot of the sculpts for Dredd are pretty characterful. As someone has collected the comic for 25 years they are good enough in my book
2016/03/09 11:40:17
Subject: Re:Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
I wasn't too pleased about Mantic's TWD having game rules cards tied to miniature purchases, but it looks like Warlord are going down the same route anyway, so I'm kinda glad I went with TWD in the end, it looks like it'll have a better theme and structure.
Never liked card decks as an essential gameplay element.
Optional gameplay aid, sure, but packaged with minis and can't play the game without them is just annoying, have a page or 2 in the rulebook with stat tables and equipment tables as well, and then sell cards separately.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/03/09 13:25:34
2016/03/09 14:12:57
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
Zywus wrote: So, is it 3 bikes per box, one of which is the leader?
Appears so, yes. Though you have enough riders I don't think you have to use the leader.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/09 15:39:51
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2016/03/09 16:07:31
Subject: Warlord Games Announcement: PROJECT Z – ZOMBIE SKIRMISH GAME (with Wargames Factory)
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
