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I would've listed the gorkanauts crushing krew, they had furious charge on 2nd turn....since their klaws are s10 this special rule would only come into play if their klaw was blown off....but now they fixed that in the new ghaz supliment. ..they now get rage.
But one that still baffles me is the flashgitz. They all have bosspoles. ...why does a whole squad need bp, it's not like they get reroll on the mobrule table, they just have a redundant gear...and that replaced their eavy armor.
I might be able to see why they did it...their models all have bp looking things on their backs....but they also have huge armour on their models as well...just another evidence that gw just deisn't give a zog about orks

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
-WHy in the Nine layers of hell, didthey keep the Apoc points price of the Lord of Skulls..., its worse then a Knight, and cost more then double the points of one...

I must respectfully disagree. Lord of skulls has 9 hp, 5++ on all sides, IWND, gains an extra attack for each lost hp (whether he regains them or not), daemon forge, which synergises nicely with the amazing skullhurler. For those that don't know, it's 60" range Str9 ap3 apocalyptic blast successful saves must be re-rolled.... Yea.

Caederes wrote:
Pretty sure the original answer to this question as far as current codices are concerned was the Dark Apostle - who has Hatred, Fearless and Leadership 10 - being able to take Veterans of the Long War - which provides Hatred and +1 Leadership - at no additional cost despite it doing absolutely nothing. It's there as a fluff rule to determine whether it is a Legionnaire or a Renegade which is fair enough, but rules-wise its inclusion is utterly pointless.

If any rule came about that only affected VotLW (or non-Vets) then it makes a difference. For example.if BL had a formation or tule that only permitted Vets, then it matters. This is also why its free for the DA, because it loterally provides nothing.

geargutz wrote:
I would've listed the gorkanauts crushing krew, they had furious charge on 2nd turn....since their klaws are s10 this special rule would only come into play if their klaw was blown off....but now they fixed that in the new ghaz supliment. ..they now get rage.
But one that still baffles me is the flashgitz. They all have bosspoles. ...why does a whole squad need bp, it's not like they get reroll on the mobrule table, they just have a redundant gear...and that replaced their eavy armor.
I might be able to see why they did it...their models all have bp looking things on their backs....but they also have huge armour on their models as well...just another evidence that gw just deisn't give a zog about orks

If all these big orks have a boss pole how do they know who is in charge? Is the mob run by committee?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seeing as this thread has gone a little off topic, talking about anti-synergistic options and Lucius, I have a couple of Lucius things to add.

Firstly you can take Lucius in a Crimson Slaughter detachment, which gives him fear. Now, fear can lower the opponents ws to 1. How many attacks does Lucius have? A number equal to the opponent's ws. It's like he sees the challenger fail their fear test and thinks he should cut them a little slack.

The second Lucius thing I've noticed is how his armour will damage units that he makes successful saves against in combat. Combine Kharn and Lucius in an unmarked squad. Kharn rolls a 1 to hit, resolving the attack against Lucius. Lucius saves on his invulnerable, which then lands hits on their squad. These hits can be allocated onto Lucius, either injuring/killing Lucius or causing further hits. In this way Lucius can potentially be killed by himself/his armour. I bet all those trapped spirits inside his armour would take great pleasure in that. I wonder how Slaanesh would resolve his curse/blessing on Lucius in this situation?

VaneNeuro wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Seeing as the Blade of the Laer in HH is AP2 too..... It's also worse than his other weapon too. So it's quite pointless.

It doesn't have a Greater Daemon housed inside it when Lucius has it.

That's why the sword isn't rending like it was when Fulgrim had it. It was a dissapointment in HH and it's only worse in CSM

I do not think they are the same weapons. Fulgrim's blade is MASSIVE.

The laziness by which "special weapons" are now usually costed at a flat price no matter who wields it. A Nob or a warboss each pay the 25pts. Same with powerfists.

 Ashiraya wrote:

VaneNeuro wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Seeing as the Blade of the Laer in HH is AP2 too..... It's also worse than his other weapon too. So it's quite pointless.

It doesn't have a Greater Daemon housed inside it when Lucius has it.

That's why the sword isn't rending like it was when Fulgrim had it. It was a dissapointment in HH and it's only worse in CSM

I do not think they are the same weapons. Fulgrim's blade is MASSIVE.

Fulgrim literally hands him the empty daemon weapon and says something akin to "Its got no purpose for me know except looking pretty."

Are we certain it is the same blade he keeps around ten thousand years later? I have seen both models and one Fulgrim has is like twice the size. We're talking two-handed Primarch weapon and one-handed Marine weapon, here.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Are we certain it is the same blade he keeps around ten thousand years later? I have seen both models and one Fulgrim has is like twice the size. We're talking two-handed Primarch weapon and one-handed Marine weapon, here.

Aye it's one and the same - The size of the blade... Well... It's a chaotic power sword after the demonic entity left it. I'm sure GW writes it off as "It adapts to the wielders strengths" or something like that.

Zanderchief wrote:
The laziness by which "special weapons" are now usually costed at a flat price no matter who wields it. A Nob or a warboss each pay the 25pts. Same with powerfists.

This though. Its especially noticable in killteam, when you are kitting out an individual guard sergeant, who may cost 8 points and you may give him a power weapon for... 15 points? On a one wound St/T/I 3 guy? Or your commander may take a powerfist for 25 points. The same as an Ork Warboss, apparently.

Well, the costs associated with the construction/maintainance of a powerfist are the same, regardless of who wields it (assuming none are lost, of course), so I guess it is up to the armoury to make sure it is allocated to the best possible man.

That said, a more expensive powerfist could perhaps represent a more ornate model, with better powersupply, etc (and other factors which don't come up in game) to justify it costing more points for a fightier model.

nareik wrote:
Well, the costs associated with the construction/maintainance of a powerfist are the same, regardless of who wields it (assuming none are lost, of course), so I guess it is up to the armoury to make sure it is allocated to the best possible man.

That said, a more expensive powerfist could perhaps represent a more ornate model, with better powersupply, etc (and other factors which don't come up in game) to justify it costing more points for a fightier model.

And that makes sense for an RPG, where you go to market and are unable to afford the +1 sword without questing for a while. It makes sense for a campaign system like Necromunda where characters can accumulate gear.

It does not make sense for a wargame where weapons should be priced according to their damage output. Plasmapistols are supposedly rare and valuable relics in the setting but that doesn't mean they should cost more than the comparatively common Lascannon because the Lascannon is a more powerful gun.

And it certainly shouldn't cost as much for a BS 3 guard sergeant to have one as a BS 5 Marine captain, because the damage output isn't comparable.

Guardsmen in CCS/PCS can exchange their lasgun for laspistol and CCW. Who the hell yould do that?

And Powerfist for Guardsman sergeant. Weapon cost more than himself. Again, who?

 Hawky wrote:
Guardsmen in CCS/PCS can exchange their lasgun for laspistol and CCW. Who the hell yould do that?

And Powerfist for Guardsman sergeant. Weapon cost more than himself. Again, who?

I have no problem with a 50 point squad of 10 guard wielding a 10 point meltagun. The meltagun is more valuable then the trooper who holds it, his flak armour and his frag grenades.
If you look at veterans though- I don't think 70 pts is reasonable for ten men with lasguns, regardless of their BS. Their meltaguns though, cost the same as the BS 3 squad's guns, even though they hit more reliably.
It kind of averages out because while the guns are cheaper than they probably should be, the men are more expensive than they should.

As regards to CCW's, yes, the guard have no assault vehicles, no delivery systems. Might be nice to have a bit of backup for Straken when he goes over the top though.

 =Angel= wrote:
the guard have no assault vehicles, no delivery systems.

We have...

Gorgon Armoured Assault transport.
400pts and Apoc only.

 Hawky wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
the guard have no assault vehicles, no delivery systems.

We have...

Gorgon Armoured Assault transport.
400pts and Apoc only.

What about the .....

CRASSIUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT

It has assault in the name..... No idea of the actual rules, just that it causes your opponent to commit seppuku on deployment.

Not sure if you actually can assault from it. Gorgon is Open-topped.

and it's CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, not Crassius.

By the Emperor I have failed.

Oh smite me CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

Surely you can, its in the name after all.

 welshhoppo wrote:
By the Emperor I have failed.

Oh smite me CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

Surely you can, its in the name after all.

The same way that an assault cannon isn't an assault weapon but a heavy weapon, or that the heavy flamer isn't a heavy weapon but an assault weapon?

 Drasius wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
By the Emperor I have failed.

Oh smite me CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

Surely you can, its in the name after all.

The same way that an assault cannon isn't an assault weapon but a heavy weapon, or that the heavy flamer isn't a heavy weapon but an assault weapon?

Sort of like how we drive in parkways and park in driveways? English is fun!!

I just got another one.

Less "codex options" and more of "rules don't make sense".

The Lightning Claw has had various different type of depictions but generally now it's a set of wolverine claws built into the back of a power fist, while pre-heresy and Chaos Marines get them in the form of actual clawed fingers.

What I don't get is that, despite being mounted on a Power Fist, they neither grant the double strength nor get unwieldy that their powerfist counterparts have. However, the reason Power Fists get those two is because the fist itself is huge and it's hard to maneuver....but why are the claws much more easy to maneuver? It's built on the same base. If anything it should be even HARDER to swing around, not easier.

The CSM and Pre-Heresy versions I can sorta understand; the user locks their arms in a certain position and swipes with their fingers instead. This way the actual glove portion doesn't really affect their mobility. But for the newer ones, where it's essentially a rack of blades mounted on the back of a power fist, I don't get how they'd be more mobile than a power fist when they essentially go through the same motions to swing it.

Can't remember if it was this edition or previous, but Tyranids old one eye.

Living battering ram gave him +2 initiative on the charge.
His claws make him strike at initiative 1 however.

So he goes up to I3 then drops to 1.

Oh, and he's land raider priced for a HQ fex that regens a bit better.

5th edition. They sorta just C+P'd the Carnifex's ruleset into Old One Eye without much thought.

 Jackal wrote:
Can't remember if it was this edition or previous, but Tyranids old one eye.

Living battering ram gave him +2 initiative on the charge.
His claws make him strike at initiative 1 however.

So he goes up to I3 then drops to 1.

Oh, and he's land raider priced for a HQ fex that regens a bit better.

Assuming it is this edition, Monstrous Creatures ignore Unwieldy, hence why we have the current D-Thirster rules.

Nope, it was 5th, and it wasn't unwieldy either, but straight up says "strikes at Initiative 1 regardless of modifiers".

monolith is a giant mobile platform that can't fire the particle whip and Gauss without forcing them to snap shot.

Meanwhile the doomsday ark fires a stronger, longer, primary 1 shot and can still shoot its sides.

grinds my gears

 Hawky wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
the guard have no assault vehicles, no delivery systems.

We have...

Gorgon Armoured Assault transport.
400pts and Apoc only.

And the stormlord, crassus...

Ok, yes, we have superheavy tanks outside the Codex that exist to ferry squishy t3 humans across a hostile battlefield to die gloriously.
That doesn't mean a 5 man of guard that ought to be really be giving orders somewhere behind heavy cover should throw away their sensible lasguns for chainswords.

(This comes from the man whose Platoon Command Squad spent the last game in a land raider, jumping out to frag grenade and charge an enemy veteran squad who had failed to kill it with meltaguns. The PCS still had their lasguns)

Pyrovores.

Your move.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Pyrovores.

Your move.

Purgator Squads. Same cost as Strike Squads but aren't ObjSec, same option for 4 weapons as Purifiers but lacking any other benefits of Purifiers, and compete with Dreadknights.

 Deadshot wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Pyrovores.

Your move.

Purgator Squads. Same cost as Strike Squads but aren't ObjSec, same option for 4 weapons as Purifiers but lacking any other benefits of Purifiers, and compete with Dreadknights.

You don't have to take 10 to get 4 weapons, unlike the Purifiers. If you want 4 Heavy Incinerators in a Drop Pod, Purgators can do it cheaper.