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 Brennonjw wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
There are people who look down and criticise those who got into 30k through BaC? Really?

I like to hope that they are more upset at the people who ONLY use BACs (or Multiple BACs) rather than those who started with a BAC. The only issue I personally have with BaC is that at the time of launch, a lot of people got all gung-ho about MSU lists.

Even that is a pretty idiotic approach.

'You're using multiple BaCs so I look down on you.'

Really? Is that really the approach we're going to take? Sorry, I used multiple BaC sets because they had fantastic value and gave me exactly what I am looking for. I used multiple BaC sets because they gave me a nice, solid core to do things with and didn't cost me an organ or two. As has been stated, personally? BaC was a boon. It gave 30k a bit of a stepping stone which has seen it grow. Sure, there's been this uptick in what's best threads....but I'll be honest. A lot of those pretty much read 'I've decided to step foot into 30k, I have limited funds, I want to build my army wisely and not be ROFLstomped by the guy with more money than sense who has all the shinies'. Which, to be fair is a valid point - even locally I've seen 'that guy'. That's the guy, who in a 1,000 point tournament where Template vehicles, Flyers and Moritat were banned was talking about bringing multiple Sicarans - thankfully he never showed up so the tournament went swimmingly and was fun all around.

I think Farseer Anath'lan has it spot on. Presentation is everything. Even if all you use is 40k models...presentation is everything. The current SM plastic range (and the chapter sprues) have a bucketload of earlier armour mark bits on them - bit of patience, bartering, trading or magpie-ing and you can get sufficient bits to build early armour marks from the current 40k range. Things like using bare heads instead of the standard Mk VII helmet, using torsos without the aquila and filing the odd detail here and there can help get the right sort of image across.

A bit of careful selection of the models you use helps as well - a lot of the character models have older armour marks so it is very much a case of simply picking the right character from a selection.

Heck, I use one of the older metal Techmarines, converted up a bit as either a Durak Rask (I wish your rules were good) or a Siege Breaker. The Techmarine was clearly a Mk VII Techmarine but a bit of filing and the right sort of paint scheme puts him snugly out of it.

@OP: I make extensive use of 40K Chaos Space Marine and Space Marine bits, as well as BaC models in my Word Bearers chapter. It's amazing what a little back story can do to explain things. Word Bearers IME lend themselves well to chaos-y bits and conversions and so forth, YMMV.

Also, aren't the HH rules supposed to cover 10,000 years? I'm no fluff expert, but wasn't MK VII established as the standard before the year 40,000?

I should add that I don't tend to care too much how people choose to model their armies. I'm happy just to find decent people to play games with, and mostly all I ask for is WYSIWIG within reason.

 jasper76 wrote:
Also, aren't the HH rules supposed to cover 10,000 years?

No, just until the "Second Founding" - 021.M31.

beast_gts wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Also, aren't the HH rules supposed to cover 10,000 years?

No, just until the "Second Founding" - 021.M31.

Gotcha.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
There are people who look down and criticise those who got into 30k through BaC? Really?

I like to hope that they are more upset at the people who ONLY use BACs (or Multiple BACs) rather than those who started with a BAC. The only issue I personally have with BaC is that at the time of launch, a lot of people got all gung-ho about MSU lists.

Even that is a pretty idiotic approach.

'You're using multiple BaCs so I look down on you.'

Really? Is that really the approach we're going to take? Sorry, I used multiple BaC sets because they had fantastic value and gave me exactly what I am looking for. I used multiple BaC sets because they gave me a nice, solid core to do things with and didn't cost me an organ or two. As has been stated, personally? BaC was a boon. It gave 30k a bit of a stepping stone which has seen it grow. Sure, there's been this uptick in what's best threads....but I'll be honest. A lot of those pretty much read 'I've decided to step foot into 30k, I have limited funds, I want to build my army wisely and not be ROFLstomped by the guy with more money than sense who has all the shinies'. Which, to be fair is a valid point - even locally I've seen 'that guy'. That's the guy, who in a 1,000 point tournament where Template vehicles, Flyers and Moritat were banned was talking about bringing multiple Sicarans - thankfully he never showed up so the tournament went swimmingly and was fun all around.

I think Farseer Anath'lan has it spot on. Presentation is everything. Even if all you use is 40k models...presentation is everything. The current SM plastic range (and the chapter sprues) have a bucketload of earlier armour mark bits on them - bit of patience, bartering, trading or magpie-ing and you can get sufficient bits to build early armour marks from the current 40k range. Things like using bare heads instead of the standard Mk VII helmet, using torsos without the aquila and filing the odd detail here and there can help get the right sort of image across.

A bit of careful selection of the models you use helps as well - a lot of the character models have older armour marks so it is very much a case of simply picking the right character from a selection.

Heck, I use one of the older metal Techmarines, converted up a bit as either a Durak Rask (I wish your rules were good) or a Siege Breaker. The Techmarine was clearly a Mk VII Techmarine but a bit of filing and the right sort of paint scheme puts him snugly out of it.

I think we're mostly in agreeance to a point on BAC. I have no issue with it (point in case, I've bought 2 to bulk up my TS and DG), as I've stated many times. If anything, it gets disappointing to see 60% of the armies at a 30k event are made of the BAC kit only. You said it yourself: Presentation is everything. I think if more effort was done in the BAC army to stand out from the millions of other 'BAC only' armies, people wouldn't have an issue with it. As to your second points: I agree that people who are snobby when it comes to MK VII (and BAC for that matter) need to blow off. A little conversion work and filing makes MK VII work just fine. AS for using older models, I think that's a common thing (at least I'd like to hope so as I'm using a TON of them for my vindicators, techmarines, techpriest auxilia, etc.)

 Brennonjw wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
There are people who look down and criticise those who got into 30k through BaC? Really?

I like to hope that they are more upset at the people who ONLY use BACs (or Multiple BACs) rather than those who started with a BAC. The only issue I personally have with BaC is that at the time of launch, a lot of people got all gung-ho about MSU lists.

Even that is a pretty idiotic approach.

'You're using multiple BaCs so I look down on you.'

Really? Is that really the approach we're going to take? Sorry, I used multiple BaC sets because they had fantastic value and gave me exactly what I am looking for. I used multiple BaC sets because they gave me a nice, solid core to do things with and didn't cost me an organ or two. As has been stated, personally? BaC was a boon. It gave 30k a bit of a stepping stone which has seen it grow. Sure, there's been this uptick in what's best threads....but I'll be honest. A lot of those pretty much read 'I've decided to step foot into 30k, I have limited funds, I want to build my army wisely and not be ROFLstomped by the guy with more money than sense who has all the shinies'. Which, to be fair is a valid point - even locally I've seen 'that guy'. That's the guy, who in a 1,000 point tournament where Template vehicles, Flyers and Moritat were banned was talking about bringing multiple Sicarans - thankfully he never showed up so the tournament went swimmingly and was fun all around.

I think Farseer Anath'lan has it spot on. Presentation is everything. Even if all you use is 40k models...presentation is everything. The current SM plastic range (and the chapter sprues) have a bucketload of earlier armour mark bits on them - bit of patience, bartering, trading or magpie-ing and you can get sufficient bits to build early armour marks from the current 40k range. Things like using bare heads instead of the standard Mk VII helmet, using torsos without the aquila and filing the odd detail here and there can help get the right sort of image across.

A bit of careful selection of the models you use helps as well - a lot of the character models have older armour marks so it is very much a case of simply picking the right character from a selection.

Heck, I use one of the older metal Techmarines, converted up a bit as either a Durak Rask (I wish your rules were good) or a Siege Breaker. The Techmarine was clearly a Mk VII Techmarine but a bit of filing and the right sort of paint scheme puts him snugly out of it.

I think we're mostly in agreeance to a point on BAC. I have no issue with it (point in case, I've bought 2 to bulk up my TS and DG), as I've stated many times. If anything, it gets disappointing to see 60% of the armies at a 30k event are made of the BAC kit only. You said it yourself: Presentation is everything. I think if more effort was done in the BAC army to stand out from the millions of other 'BAC only' armies, people wouldn't have an issue with it. As to your second points: I agree that people who are snobby when it comes to MK VII (and BAC for that matter) need to blow off. A little conversion work and filing makes MK VII work just fine. AS for using older models, I think that's a common thing (at least I'd like to hope so as I'm using a TON of them for my vindicators, techmarines, techpriest auxilia, etc.)

My own Death Guard are Mostly BaC models. I'm adding with other things but I'll admit, really hard pressed to beat the BaC value.

Still, doesn't stop me spicing up with the following things.

Iron Warrior torso bits.
Trimmed down Khorne Berserker helmets (to make either Mk II-esque or Mk V style helmets).
CSM bare heads.
CSM backpacks - 2nd ed and current.

And some metal 2nd ed CSM dreadnoughts which make really nice Mk III dreadnoughts.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
There are people who look down and criticise those who got into 30k through BaC? Really?

I like to hope that they are more upset at the people who ONLY use BACs (or Multiple BACs) rather than those who started with a BAC. The only issue I personally have with BaC is that at the time of launch, a lot of people got all gung-ho about MSU lists.

Even that is a pretty idiotic approach.

'You're using multiple BaCs so I look down on you.'

Really? Is that really the approach we're going to take? Sorry, I used multiple BaC sets because they had fantastic value and gave me exactly what I am looking for. I used multiple BaC sets because they gave me a nice, solid core to do things with and didn't cost me an organ or two. As has been stated, personally? BaC was a boon. It gave 30k a bit of a stepping stone which has seen it grow. Sure, there's been this uptick in what's best threads....but I'll be honest. A lot of those pretty much read 'I've decided to step foot into 30k, I have limited funds, I want to build my army wisely and not be ROFLstomped by the guy with more money than sense who has all the shinies'. Which, to be fair is a valid point - even locally I've seen 'that guy'. That's the guy, who in a 1,000 point tournament where Template vehicles, Flyers and Moritat were banned was talking about bringing multiple Sicarans - thankfully he never showed up so the tournament went swimmingly and was fun all around.

I think Farseer Anath'lan has it spot on. Presentation is everything. Even if all you use is 40k models...presentation is everything. The current SM plastic range (and the chapter sprues) have a bucketload of earlier armour mark bits on them - bit of patience, bartering, trading or magpie-ing and you can get sufficient bits to build early armour marks from the current 40k range. Things like using bare heads instead of the standard Mk VII helmet, using torsos without the aquila and filing the odd detail here and there can help get the right sort of image across.

A bit of careful selection of the models you use helps as well - a lot of the character models have older armour marks so it is very much a case of simply picking the right character from a selection.

Heck, I use one of the older metal Techmarines, converted up a bit as either a Durak Rask (I wish your rules were good) or a Siege Breaker. The Techmarine was clearly a Mk VII Techmarine but a bit of filing and the right sort of paint scheme puts him snugly out of it.

I think we're mostly in agreeance to a point on BAC. I have no issue with it (point in case, I've bought 2 to bulk up my TS and DG), as I've stated many times. If anything, it gets disappointing to see 60% of the armies at a 30k event are made of the BAC kit only. You said it yourself: Presentation is everything. I think if more effort was done in the BAC army to stand out from the millions of other 'BAC only' armies, people wouldn't have an issue with it. As to your second points: I agree that people who are snobby when it comes to MK VII (and BAC for that matter) need to blow off. A little conversion work and filing makes MK VII work just fine. AS for using older models, I think that's a common thing (at least I'd like to hope so as I'm using a TON of them for my vindicators, techmarines, techpriest auxilia, etc.)

My own Death Guard are Mostly BaC models. I'm adding with other things but I'll admit, really hard pressed to beat the BaC value.

Still, doesn't stop me spicing up with the following things.

Iron Warrior torso bits.
Trimmed down Khorne Berserker helmets (to make either Mk II-esque or Mk V style helmets).
CSM bare heads.
CSM backpacks - 2nd ed and current.

And some metal 2nd ed CSM dreadnoughts which make really nice Mk III dreadnoughts.

Exactly: you did a ton of stuff to make them different. if you just left them generic calth, and everyone you played ONLY had generic calth, it would get dull pretty fast. here's to hoping the next 30k box has MK III armour + some other nice things. if nothing else to just add variety. (since I'm buying ~40 more MK III marines soon )

Wow, some of you nearly scared me away from ever trying a game of 30K. That's awesome, right? Taking an elitist stance to criticize people's hobby spending because it doesn't fit your view? (And I had never even thought of using 40K models for a 30K army until I stumbled across this thread.)

Granted, it seems that most of you aren't of that mindset, and thank the Emperor for that. I'm looking into 30K because I have been reading the forums talking about how awesome the game is, that people are more interested in a fun game rather than the most powerful combo that can win with the least effort. That got me very excited, because I am sick of playing against players in my local meta that are all about winning at all costs. These opponents make the game a chore, and nowhere near as fun as it used to be. It got bad enough to the point that I went off and played Warmachine/Hordes for a year, only to realize too late that the winning mentality is just as present there (if not more so), and that at least with 40K there is a chance, however slim, that I would face off against a player more interested in fun. Not to smear Warmachine/Hordes players, but in my local scene it is about the pursuit of victory, not a fun experience for both players.

I don't belittle people for seeking a different experience with their toy soldiers than I am, far from it. If you have gaming buddies that you all like to try out the "winning net-list" of the week against each other, have fun! I'm not going to have fun with that, because I don't have the time to study the rules for all the factions and detachments, nor do I have the funds to buy the latest and greatest models as they are released. The experience I am looking for is a laidback game, where we can roll dice and laugh at the ridiculous moments and improbable dice rolls that make this hobby memorable. I had that for a time with 40K, and then 6th edition came out. I played for a while because I had already invested a decent chunk of change into the models, and wanted to use them. But as 7th rolled out and my local meta became more competitive, I became disappointed. Not because others were having fun, but because I was no longer enjoying the game.

And so I stumble across these forums and others, each talking about how awesome 30K is as a more balanced game than 40K, with more fun battles and better satisfaction for the player mindset that I shared with those posting. And so I got a Betrayal at Calth set to start building up a force of 30K models, and bought me a Sicarin tank to get used to Forge World resin. And that emptied out my hobby spending for the next few months. I only have so much time and money to spend on this hobby, so I have to be slow and deliberate with every purchase these days. To those of you with the resources to make this a full hobby experience, I salute you But I will be working on this at a slow pace, but it will be my army. I'll get my infantry painted up, I'll get my plastic Fellblade conversion done up extra awesome, and I'll invest in a bigger foam lined carrying case to carry them in.

I'll be sure to filter the detractors from my playable opponents in the years to come; we have different goals and desired experiences from this hobby, and in particular this expansion to 40K. If I'm spending my money on my models, I'll paint them whatever color I like. So if you ever see bright orange Iron Warriors or Iron Hands (or maybe White Scars or Space Wolves once their Legion rules are published), that is probably me. And if you want to use your 40K Marines to represent your army against mine, go for it! So long as they are painted in a cohesive and standardized color scheme, I'll be happy (why can't my local Warmachine/Hordes players paint their models? Sigh...)

Betrayal at Calth gave me an opportunity to jump into 30K, even though I'd rather have MK2 or MK3 armor in plastic (those helmets are so awesome!). I'll take what I can get though. I'll probably get another box of it once I have the money for it. But for now, I shall paint up my Legiones Astartes Marines in my custom chapter color scheme.

While I also bought two Battle of Calth boxes which effectively doubled my infantry (always liked MkIV, but didn't like the skinny resin models, so made due with MkIII), there is definitely a stigma with players who started solely with BoC.

These players are mostly recent 40K transplants given easy entry with the new box, which in and of itself is a great thing and a huge boon to 30K groups everywhere. The problems arise when these same people bring over a 40K min-max mentality, and try to apply the same thought process to 30K. The Age of Darkness, far more so than 40K, is a game built around narrative and background. Space Marine "Chapters" painted in your football team's colors are not welcome, crazy formations are not welcome, throwing together the best stuff from every FOC slot with no rhyme, theme or reason is not welcome.

As long as you can keep away from those caveats, and focus on the hobby and background aspect, you'll find a very welcoming community. If you're looking for the next competitive field to conquer, these are not the droids you're looking for.

HandofMars wrote:
The Age of Darkness, far more so than 40K, is a game built around narrative and background.

Not really. Certain players like you have tried to declare that this is what the game is about and shun people who disagree from the community, but that doesn't mean the game itself favors your preferred way of playing.

 Peregrine wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
The Age of Darkness, far more so than 40K, is a game built around narrative and background.

Not really. Certain players like you have tried to declare that this is what the game is about and shun people who disagree from the community, but that doesn't mean the game itself favors your preferred way of playing.

And you are the single most vocal "30k isn't about the fluff at all" person in the sub forum. Realistically, if you really wanted to play a cheese list, 40k would be the place to go. the community is more accepting of it, and the game tailors to that better by having more ways to get said cheese list. this 'Certain players' comment is misleading, as a large percentage (arguably most of the community, not just some) play and treat 30k like it is. This means, by exention, that for the most part it IS a game of fluff and story rather than cheese and needing to win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BunkhouseBuster wrote:
...or maybe White Scars or Space Wolves once their Legion rules are published

FYI book 6 put out rules for the scars

AS much as I am someone who would prefer 30k for the theme of it, the more I see "ITS ABOUT THE THEME!" be swung around like some baseball bat to beat the idea into people's heads that you can only played themed games or you can only use "Era appropriate" gear, the more I want to see people use things that don't fit and the more I want to see people try to play games not about the fluff.

Didn't even get to finish my army before the seeds of detestation took root. Thanks.

 Brennonjw wrote:
And you are the single most vocal "30k isn't about the fluff at all" person in the sub forum.

Forum members =/= the game. I acknowledge that, in many places, certain 30k players have created an environment where anyone who doesn't follow their person rules about how to have fun the right way is shunned from the community, but that doesn't mean that the game itself is about those things. You've just managed to add your own rules to your personal clique.

Realistically, if you really wanted to play a cheese list, 40k would be the place to go.

Maybe I happen to like 30k cheese for whatever reason. Or maybe I play cheese lists in both. If you discard the house rules (written or unwritten) that certain players have created and only consider the published rules for 30k and 40k there is nothing that says "cheese players play 40k only".

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
AS much as I am someone who would prefer 30k for the theme of it, the more I see "ITS ABOUT THE THEME!" be swung around like some baseball bat to beat the idea into people's heads that you can only played themed games or you can only use "Era appropriate" gear, the more I want to see people use things that don't fit and the more I want to see people try to play games not about the fluff.

Didn't even get to finish my army before the seeds of detestation took root. Thanks.

I subscribe to the idea that it is more about the fluff, but I try (and probably fail) to refrain from saying it's ONLY about the fluff. There will always be extremists on both sides of the argument. Those who say "ONLY use gear that was around in 30k" are in that group, as are the people who bring 9 quad mortars, 2 spartans, 3 fire raptors, etc. etc. and pass it off as "fluffy" may be extreme to the other degree. I think the better statement (for all games in general really) is play the game to have fun, and avoid cheese unless both sides are going for it. People will have their little vendettas against odd things (i.e. the BAC backlash that I still hope/think is tied to some ideas that came about the same time rather than the models themselves) I'll call out on 'What is best' threads that people should build what is fun rather than what is the best, but for the most part (beyond threads about this very topic) I tend to keep it at a minimum. I guess the point I'm getting at is don't let loud people ruin your fun, let 'local' dictate your thoughts more than a forum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

Maybe I happen to like 30k cheese for whatever reason. Or maybe I play cheese lists in both. If you discard the house rules (written or unwritten) that certain players have created and only consider the published rules for 30k and 40k there is nothing that says "cheese players play 40k only".

I suppose I see your point, though I still think the game tends to be better (i.e. more fun, less glaring flaws) when you don't try and cheese it, and I'll still encourage people to run as non-cheesy as possible unless it's a mutual thing in a local area.

 Brennonjw wrote:
I suppose I see your point, though I still think the game tends to be better (i.e. more fun, less glaring flaws) when you don't try and cheese it, and I'll still encourage people to run as non-cheesy as possible unless it's a mutual thing in a local area.

The problem is that people have wildly diverging opinions on what is "cheesy" and expecting people to build their lists according to your unwritten rules rarely ends well.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
I suppose I see your point, though I still think the game tends to be better (i.e. more fun, less glaring flaws) when you don't try and cheese it, and I'll still encourage people to run as non-cheesy as possible unless it's a mutual thing in a local area.

The problem is that people have wildly diverging opinions on what is "cheesy" and expecting people to build their lists according to your unwritten rules rarely ends well.

true to a point, but there are things that are commonly known to be something cheesy by those who have been in a community long enough. Bringing a spartan into a >1,000 pt. game is one such type of thing (not the only example, or even the best example, but it gets the point across), as well as something like bringing 9 quad mortars w/ phosphex into a low point, friendly game.

40K models in a 30K game? NO. That's a table flip and justified.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
40K models in a 30K game? NO. That's a table flip and justified.

I don't know.
MKV is a rush job right? Its all these bits bolted on to the armour with bonding studs. So you can weather bolterfire.

Now, if you had more just a bit more time, you could bond those plates without studs. Cover up some of the exposed cabling.
It wouldn't be anywhere near as efficient as Mark VII, but it would sure look like it.

Then you have these bad boys- 'Sarum respirators'

Obviously an attempt to explain why the world eaters are rocking MkVII pattern helms in M41, the Sarum pattern respirator looks even more like MKVII than MKV.

And in the sons of Horus- the guy on the left there.

That's a mkIV variant.

Clearly theres something in this helm design that made it the default helm pattern for FW's MKV armour during a period where supplies were scarce. Maybe it's easier to maintain a helm with the open grille, making it ideal for the World Eaters and their devil-may-care attitude to wargear ( Kharn and other WE often go bare armed)
Or perhaps it was more efficient that way for another reason, meriting the design making its way into the warmasters legion(who made sure he got the best kit) and eventually MKVII

So if it bothered you that those models at arms distance appeared to be MKVII, fear not. They are in fact MKV hybrids of MK3-6 suits with Sarum pattern/modified MkIV helms- worked over extensively by the techs to armour up those glaring vulnerabilities.

No 40K in 30K. Play 40K if you wanna use those models.

All these armour patterns are make believe anyhow. The equivalent of 40K button counting.

Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

I'll use my sigmarines in 30K then. All the same as its only proxies.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

I'll use my sigmarines in 30K then. All the same as its only proxies.

Grey plastic or as a basis for realizing your vision for, say, Blood Angels?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

I'll use my sigmarines in 30K then. All the same as its only proxies.

Key word - reasonable.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

I'll use my sigmarines in 30K then. All the same as its only proxies.

Grey plastic or as a basis for realizing your vision for, say, Blood Angels?

Grey plastic. What else?

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
No 40K in 30K. Play 40K if you wanna use those models.

All these armour patterns are make believe anyhow. The equivalent of 40K button counting.

If it's just make believe what is your justification for not having 40k marines in 30k? The wargear is identical to 30k tacs and they are both Space Marines.

There no justification, it's just his shtick to post provocative gak and not engage in any real discussion. Hence my little "test."

 pumpinchimp wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

I'll use my sigmarines in 30K then. All the same as its only proxies.

Key word - reasonable.

I don't see how that's not reasonable. If they are equipped with recognisable wargear, they are still just as valid as 40k Marines, no? They're his toy soldiers - if he is morally obliged to accept something he doesn't like, why don't you seem to?

I can see the mkVII justification, but I could treat my Legionnaires as if they are fighting before the advent of mkVII. That's my time period, and according to that, my opponent shouldn't use it. /devil's advocate/

Again, I don't stand by any set rules - if it looks like you're trying to make an effort to fit with the fluff and period, I'll be okay with it. If it looks like you're just trying to maximise games without putting effort in, I probably won't want to play you again.

 pumpinchimp wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

I'll use my sigmarines in 30K then. All the same as its only proxies.

Key word - reasonable.

your reasonable or mine? Because if we are drawing random lines in the samd of what is and isn't allowed who gets to pick?

The rules say use the 30k models.


You say it is reasonable to have proxies like 40k, I say it is reasonable to bring lego? So either your line in the sand is better then mine or since we broke the rules do what ever ya like.

You can play 30K/40K with pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters as models, if that's what you and your opponents are into. Its sort of inconsequential what anyone thinks about it except the people playing.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Not everyone has the means to afford multiple armies. As long as they have reasonable proxies it doesn't both me in the slightest.

I'll use my sigmarines in 30K then. All the same as its only proxies.

Key word - reasonable.

your reasonable or mine? Because if we are drawing random lines in the samd of what is and isn't allowed who gets to pick?

The rules say use the 30k models.


You say it is reasonable to have proxies like 40k, I say it is reasonable to bring lego? So either your line in the sand is better then mine or since we broke the rules do what ever ya like.

To be fair, if you did a 30k army in Lego to the standard of some of the 40k Lego we've seen....then I'd have no problems with that.

Seriously. I'm half tempted to go make a giant-arse post about doing a 30k army with NO Forge World or BaC components whatsoever. Because it is possible. And it can be done.