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It really depends on the background fluff of the specific game in question. If it is a conflict set during the Scouring, I don't mind, altough a force equipped entirely with MkVII armour feels somewhat awkward even in that period.
Set during the Horus Heresy however? No way! That is like bringing miniatures of modern German soldiers to represent Nazis in a WW2 game. It totally breaks all immersion!
When re-enacting historical (or fictional historical) conflicts, historical accuracy is really important for me. As far as I am concerned you might as well bring cardboard tokens. Hell, I'd actually prefer playing against well-made historically accurate cardboard tokens than against the Anachronism Marines.
The only reason I play this game is for the fluff, so don't take it away from me.

Mk 7 was not standardised till near the end of the Heresy as others have stated but that is not to say that peices were not worn in an ad hoc manner similar to mk V which was a lot more varied than the models produced by FW. I don't mind bits of MK 7 being creatively mixed in with HH Mks but I personally have no interest in playing against someone using a purely 40k army. This is not because I look down on them, it is simply because I like to be immersed in the setting and I have put a lot of money and effort into achieving the HH aesthetics and it falls flat for me when my opponent doesn't hold them as dear as I do.

Mk. 7 style greaves and vambraces were in use during the Horus Heresy, yeah. You can see some models in the FW books with them. But not the entire suit.

In my opinion it goes like this:

I will always have more fun in 30k playing against an army that fits their story, theme and history. That's part of the enjoyment for me in both 30 and 40k. That said I will never hold anyone to a 100% forgeworld army especially if they are just starting out Flavor is part of the game after all. I would much rather start other players small and grow them into the game. After all you don't need 3k points to start, there's plenty of kill Team and patroll style missions to play while people build up their army.

If you don't have the money to Start 30k strong out of the box, Use the 40k stuff you got to get started, Calth sets, buy the appropriate army books, and save up for 30k specials and troops you want over time.
People seem to forget Mars Pattern Rhino hulls were around during the Heresy. (Mars pattern being current plastic Rhino based kits.)

If you're getting into 40k and Refuse to buy anything for 30k out of "price spite" "gw sucks" or "its not worth it!" I question why you are playing the game in the first place and am likely not to play you period because the game is probably going to be filled with snide anti GW remarks and I got better things to do.
Keep in mind I'm not saying this occrance is 100% going to happen but it has been my experience for the majority of players I've met who have this negative attitude.

In short Don't be a toolbag and show up every week with a grey army changing your legion to fit whatever flavor of the month legion might be our there. (Deciding on your legion is different btw).

Make a genuine attempt at your army. If that's Full Sail ForgeWorld great, if it's gw plastic with FW Legions upgrades great! Just put the work and heart into your army in your own way that I and many others have and you'll be golden.

Exalted Angelos, well said!

I don't care. I personally feel that the FW elitist attitude is rather silly, especially with the BaC since BaC is canon, is set during the Horus Heresy and EVEN IF most of the infantry is BaC there are many units that you can only get via FW models so that should shake things up. Sure you can scratchbuild or proxy but that's already such a prevalent thing in most circle, its not really worth noting.

As for Mk IIV armor, I still couldn't care less, SM is a SM to me. As long as the legion scheme is there and equipment can be reasonably distinguished from each other I'm happy to play someone.

People shouldn't be surprised that more folk from 40k are getting into 30k, its a good game and genuinely fun without a lot of the headaches that currently plague 40k. That's just my 2 cent, I'm sure there are folks that disagree with me but ultimately we all enjoy the game and hobby for our own reasons but what we all have in common is that we all enjoy it.

Is BaC even a real issue I feel people here are blowing it out of proportion. I still prefer the look of the FW mk iv's but I definitely prefer working with the plastic ones but as far as gaming terms has anyone really made an issue out of this?

Im hoping so. One of my ideas is either a Charcarodons army representing raven guard. Or minotaurs representing ultramarines

Hello folks

I'm just getting back into the hobby, not played in 10+years so just been looking at the new games /models etc, starting to build up an army and was going to ask a similar question to the OP.


My question is basically the opposite way around, I was to ask whether or not people minded about the HH models being used in 40k games much? I really like the look of the new contemptor dreadnoughts so was thinking of getting a couple of those instead of the current general SM models, I didnt think it would be a problem using older versions as they could still be in production or remnants from HH, or they just havent had new shiney one's from the emperor yet, but havent played in years so thought I'd check.

One of my ideas is either a Charcarodons army representing raven guard. Or minotaurs representing ultramarines

Sounds good, i was thinking of putting wings and rocket engines on the Green Knight, for my dark angels land speeder, he is green after all....hmmmm......they still have horses in the dark future right? Or did Tesco turn them all into burgers?

Not being a douchebag, I'm fine either way. Enjoy

Templar101 wrote:
Hello folks

I'm just getting back into the hobby, not played in 10+years so just been looking at the new games /models etc, starting to build up an army and was going to ask a similar question to the OP.


My question is basically the opposite way around, I was to ask whether or not people minded about the HH models being used in 40k games much? I really like the look of the new contemptor dreadnoughts so was thinking of getting a couple of those instead of the current general SM models, I didnt think it would be a problem using older versions as they could still be in production or remnants from HH, or they just havent had new shiney one's from the emperor yet, but havent played in years so thought I'd check.

One of my ideas is either a Charcarodons army representing raven guard. Or minotaurs representing ultramarines

Sounds good, i was thinking of putting wings and rocket engines on the Green Knight, for my dark angels land speeder, he is green after all....hmmmm......they still have horses in the dark future right? Or did Tesco turn them all into burgers?

Imperial Armor 2: 2 Edition has the rules for a lot of HH era models.

JamesY wrote:
Has anyone here actually experienced first hand an opponent being condescending or rude over what mark of SM armour their army is comprised of, or whether their models are fw/40k/BaC? Out of interest.

Yes, I play a pre-Isstvan Raven Guard army, and recently had an opponent say I couldn't use my MK IV marines because Raven Guard only wear MK VI. I use a mix of the two. This was after I destroyed his Typhon Siege Tank.

Go look a fe threads below on how people feel about fluffy lists and ho upset non-fluffy lists are treated.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:

JamesY wrote:
Has anyone here actually experienced first hand an opponent being condescending or rude over what mark of SM armour their army is comprised of, or whether their models are fw/40k/BaC? Out of interest.

Yes, I play a pre-Isstvan Raven Guard army, and recently had an opponent say I couldn't use my MK IV marines because Raven Guard only wear MK VI. I use a mix of the two. This was after I destroyed his Typhon Siege Tank.

What a numpty.

me and my friends just use 40k marines, with things like upgrade packs (legion shoulder pads) and the right weapons as we dont have much funds to buy from GW let alone Forgeworld

Imperial Armor 2: 2 Edition has the rules for a lot of HH era models.

Thanks, had a wee look and found the rules for the Contemptor dreadnoughts for 40k. Now thats sorted .... Anyone know where to find the rules for the Scimitar Pattern Jetbike's, or if they can be used in 40k games or is it just HH?
I'd like to add a few of these to my dark angels army if possible pimped up with some ravenwing bits. I Had a look myself but to no avail.

The HH 30k game wasnt around when i was playing years ago. I can see people's frustrations about playing with their 30k army against an opponent/army that doesnt perhaps fit the era/style of HH.
On the other hand its an expensive hobby at times, with various age groups etc not everyone's going to have a specific army for every situation /scenario, If someone fancied a game of 30k with some 40k models for stand in or to try the game out before adding some 30k models later on etc Its not the end of the world really. When i started playing as a youngster i recall using a tin of Lynx for a land raider haha in a game at home with a freind times were tough indeed, smelled nice at least.


Im a very recent returning player so just getting to grips with things again, Not sure if I have picked up some peoples gripes correctly with 30k SM mk armor versions, Do some people have a problem with the BaC miniatures? Is this due to the MK 4 armor? Them being plastic and cheaper?

The equipping of the legions was only partially complete when the Horus Heresy broke out. Many of the Legions that had just been fully equipped with Mark IV armour turned against the Imperium while many of the loyal Legions had been deliberately starved of access to it and and remained operating with the older Mark II and Mark III armour. Additionally, even the Legions equipped with Mark IV suits quickly found themselves low on spare parts and unable to manufacture replacement units. With war damage and mobile operations, resupply for damaged equipment was difficult or impossible. Marine artificers and Techmarines had to use old style equipment from older models to keep the legions fighting, as well as salavage from slain enemies and unorthodox inovations of their own
As a result of its widespread production and use prior to and during the Horus Heresy, Mark IV suits are the most common of the pre-Heresy armour Marks still in service during the 41st Millennium

Thanks for the help.

I think a large part of the BAC hate is boiled down to a few things from what I've read:
1) cookie-cutter army lists ( when suddenly 60% of the armies that are seen are now all suddenly MK IV PotL lists, or variations there in, it bummed quite a few people out.)
2) Visually cookie-cutter armies (a big draw of 30k was putting that effort into your army to make it look good. Suddenly having EVERY legion using MK IV put a lot of people off of the armour mk. especially since the BAC poses are so..... weak compared to FWs poses)
3) (personally) my biggest issue with BAC was the influx of increasingly 40k-esque lists (i.e. PotL w/ minimum troops, and as much cheese as possible). Things that were min maxed to no end really put me off of 30k (as one of my (and many others) main reasons for swapping was me being tired of the power creep/arms race). Thankfully, this seems to be a lot less prevalent now-a-days.
4) one-off people with superiority complexes (super rare)


In summary: I think it's less an issue with BAC, and more of an issue about over exposure and people seemingly doing little to nothing to make their army stand out from the other billion BAC only armies. No decent person will be whining about them being affordable or plastic, some (like me) think MK IV is super lame compared to the glorious MK III , as I said above: it's probably over exposure to the same lists/models since BAC.

The only rule is the rule of cool!

As other poster have said, I care more about you making your army look and feel like a 30k force than purity of the model range, and I don't have much time for people who think you *should* have to spend lots of money to play. My word bearers are made from 40k bits, 30k parts, third party stuff, RT-era stuff and I've tried to tie it all together to look convincingly like a 30k word bearers army.




It doesn't matter if you're using plastic mk7 or resin mk3, what matters is that it feels well thought-out. Squads of 20 mk7 marines with 30k markings, vexillas and helmet crests would look great. Just using a 40k army painted as howling griffons and full of centurions or something might not!

Of course having everything authentically modelled makes everything look a lot nicer and adds to the enjoyment of a game but FW is incredibly expensive.

If someone showed up to a game using old battle beasts models to represent their army I would be pretty disappointed. That said, I'd still play that person because I'd be getting a game and I wouldn't say anything negative at all because FW is clearly well outside of some people's budget.

Using 40k models to represent 30k models is hardly a stretch though - just roll with it.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Do you have any evidence of Mk. 7 being deployed before the Battle of Terra?

No. But more importantly, the only evidence that it wasn't is from a source that Forge World have repeatedly ignored and contradicted - mark 2 and 3 having fixed helmets, mark 6 being introduced as the Heretics entered the Solar System, and different marks being cross-compatible (it was originally only marks 6 and 7). The pre-production testing of mark 6 at Isstvan by the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion is enough of a precedent for me to allow the presence of mark 7 suits in a Heresy army without getting hot under the collar about it.

I'd certainly prefer it if they didn't - in general I prefer to play using and against fully-painted armies appropriate to the setting, with the correct gear, but if my fellow player isn't obnoxious, then it doesn't really matter.

If multi-meltas and man-portable plasma cannons are allowed, then why not?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Templar101 wrote:

Imperial Armor 2: 2 Edition has the rules for a lot of HH era models.

Thanks, had a wee look and found the rules for the Contemptor dreadnoughts for 40k. Now thats sorted .... Anyone know where to find the rules for the Scimitar Pattern Jetbike's, or if they can be used in 40k games or is it just HH?.

The jetbikes and some other vehicles (the Baneblade-derived vehicles other than the Fellblade, for example) are Heresy-only. As a rule of thumb, if it's not in the Warhammer 40,000 section of the Forge World online store, then it's Heresy only.

There is another way to think about this "issue" of 40K marines use in Horus Heresy games.

If you play with friend, I am pretty sure you can make youre point of using FW models and if youre friends doesn't want to do so, well you can refuse to play.

If you play in a tournament/Horus Heresy Day, I think it's up to the rules of the tournament and to the people ruling it to decide if they accept it or not.
Again, in this case, you can refuse to come to the tournament or Horus Heresy Day.

After all, it's a hobby and a passion for us, but don't forget it's a game that we need to be enjoying. and nothing force us to play

Tank_Dweller wrote:
Is BaC even a real issue I feel people here are blowing it out of proportion. I still prefer the look of the FW mk iv's but I definitely prefer working with the plastic ones but as far as gaming terms has anyone really made an issue out of this?

BaC minis are excellent. I don't understand the hate of BaC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:

If you're getting into 40k and Refuse to buy anything for 30k out of "price spite" "gw sucks" or "its not worth it!" I question why you are playing the game in the first place and am likely not to play you period because the game is probably going to be filled with snide anti GW remarks and I got better things to do.
Keep in mind I'm not saying this occrance is 100% going to happen but it has been my experience for the majority of players I've met who have this negative attitude.
.

I have played a few games against those guys.

I would rather not play than listen to a 2-3 hour whine-fest.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:

JamesY wrote:
Has anyone here actually experienced first hand an opponent being condescending or rude over what mark of SM armour their army is comprised of, or whether their models are fw/40k/BaC? Out of interest.

Yes, I play a pre-Isstvan Raven Guard army, and recently had an opponent say I couldn't use my MK IV marines because Raven Guard only wear MK VI. I use a mix of the two. This was after I destroyed his Typhon Siege Tank.

What the....I don't know what I would say to that. Probably ask him if he has a big enough crater for that Typhon to put in its place.

This falls into the same category as the "I want to play my Tyranids/Daemons/Necrons/Chaos/Eldar/Orks/Tau/Grey Knights/Inquisitor/Sisters of Battle/Made up Space Marine Chapter in 30K".

Sorry to be that guy, but it's 30K. It's Legions vs. Legions. If I'm playing 30K, I expect to face another 30K army- and right now, that's a Legion or Mechanicum army.

I don't care if the models came from Forge World or not, but the models need to look like they came from that time period. A bunch of guys running around in MK VII Aquila Power Armor with Godwyn Pattern weapons is not 30K.
"But...but my Chapter of Space Vengence Angels was formed right at the end of the Heresy and got lost in the warp for 10,000 years and now they are back fighting for the Emperor. It was only yesterday that they were rushing back to Earth to help the Imperial Fists when they got flung into the warp. To them, it was only a day, but 10,000 years passed. That's why they look like they have all brand new equipment." What about that Storm Raven? "Oh, they game across a Space Hulk" And what about all the Terminators in Indomitus Pattern with the Crux Terminatus? "..."

Now comes the "Your an !" and "Forge World is too expensive..." and "I should be able to play whatever I want" and etc. etc. etc.

Look, this is a game of little Toy Soldiers on a table. The OP asked for opinions, and I gave mine. You don't have to like it or agree with it. How you play with your mates at the club or FLGS is entirely up to you and them.

Don't forget Chaos Demons, those are welcome in 30K as well. DA even have rules for fighting them (it's very niche, but they do).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Do you have any evidence of Mk. 7 being deployed before the Battle of Terra?

No. But more importantly, the only evidence that it wasn't is from a source that Forge World have repeatedly ignored and contradicted - mark 2 and 3 having fixed helmets, mark 6 being introduced as the Heretics entered the Solar System, and different marks being cross-compatible (it was originally only marks 6 and 7). The pre-production testing of mark 6 at Isstvan by the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion is enough of a precedent for me to allow the presence of mark 7 suits in a Heresy army without getting hot under the collar about it.

I'd certainly prefer it if they didn't - in general I prefer to play using and against fully-painted armies appropriate to the setting, with the correct gear, but if my fellow player isn't obnoxious, then it doesn't really matter.

If multi-meltas and man-portable plasma cannons are allowed, then why not?

If it hasn't been directly contradicted then it still stands as being canon, no?

@Tamwulf

Godwyn pattern boltguns were in service during the Horus Heresy. But I agree with the rest of what you said. If you want to play a 40k army why not just play 40k?

Wow alot of elitism coming from what amounts to 40k refugees. I hope for all the players who cry about non resin marines invading muh balanced muhreen circle jerk, they add eldar to your game. Or better yet, early 30k tau.

 Orock wrote:
Wow alot of elitism coming from what amounts to 40k refugees. I hope for all the players who cry about non resin marines invading muh balanced muhreen circle jerk, they add eldar to your game. Or better yet, early 30k tau.

How's that axe grinding going? It seemed a little dull before.

 kronk wrote:

Tank_Dweller wrote:
Is BaC even a real issue I feel people here are blowing it out of proportion. I still prefer the look of the FW mk iv's but I definitely prefer working with the plastic ones but as far as gaming terms has anyone really made an issue out of this?

BaC minis are excellent. I don't understand the hate of BaC.

Because it allowed the unwashed poor 40k masses to afford the game obviously.

Every game store has one unwashed...but I concede the point.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Orock wrote:
Wow alot of elitism coming from what amounts to 40k refugees. I hope for all the players who cry about non resin marines invading muh balanced muhreen circle jerk, they add eldar to your game. Or better yet, early 30k tau.

How's that axe grinding going? It seemed a little dull before.

Good, good.

Turned away many unwashed plastic using plebeians recently? 30k dosen't need that kind of riff-raff polluting the gentlemens past time.