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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Does anyone know if the ramifications of NATO take effect if Turkey has a civil war?


Nothing, I expect. Note that Turkey was already in a state of civil war, from a Kurdish POV.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




well lately Turkey has been a hotbed with Islamic extremists, so i'm curious what are they doing during this coup ?

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

The Islamic Extremists are the ones opposing the coup.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The Islamic Extremists are the ones opposing the coup.


their PM is, but are there terrorist bombings? or? right now it sounds mostly military involvement, so far information coming from there is sketchy at best one side claiming victory, other side claiming victory, when all is said and done if it is not a clean victory for either side it could get drawn out and ugly and effect things on a more global scale.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/16 00:48:44


Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Hordini wrote:
It's not just happening in Istanbul either. I doubt the Istanbul police chief can speak authoritatively on the status of the coup in the rest of the country. There hasn't been much footage from Ankara from what I've seen on CNN so far...a lot could be going on there.


At this point both sides are going to engage in disinformation campaigns to sway public opinion. Trying to downplay the scale of the coup, and associate it's members with groups like Fethullah Gülen is step one for the Turkish government.

Until we can get comprehensive reports, pretty much everything we see on social media and Turkish news should be taken with a grain of salt. Information warfare is key in staging a good coup. I'm sure the military and the government in Turkey are both aware of this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/16 00:51:51


   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.
We should support the putsch, and not this dictator.
What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/16 00:56:17


   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.


What choice do they really have? Like him or not, he is the legitimate leader of the Turkish state ( and boy do I not like him). The world stage isn't going to actively support the overthrow of a democratically elected leader, even if he is a donkey-cave. It's just not going to happen.

What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...


I find that the only people who ever end up with a coup trying to overthrow them are people that have the support of their citizens...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/16 00:59:35


   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.
We should support the putsch, and not this dictator.
What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



We don't really know who the people of Turkey are supporting at this point. I haven't seen anything conclusive in any of the video footage so far showing them supporting one side or the other.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hordini wrote:
 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.
We should support the putsch, and not this dictator.
What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



We don't really know who the people of Turkey are supporting at this point. I haven't seen anything conclusive in any of the video footage so far showing them supporting one side or the other.


from what I saw most of the citizens were doing what any smart civilian would do, find cover fast.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

Asterios wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.
We should support the putsch, and not this dictator.
What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



We don't really know who the people of Turkey are supporting at this point. I haven't seen anything conclusive in any of the video footage so far showing them supporting one side or the other.


from what I saw most of the citizens were doing what any smart civilian would do, find cover fast.



You might want to check CNN's front page. It looks like there are a lot of civilians out in certain areas at least.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hordini wrote:
Asterios wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.
We should support the putsch, and not this dictator.
What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



We don't really know who the people of Turkey are supporting at this point. I haven't seen anything conclusive in any of the video footage so far showing them supporting one side or the other.


from what I saw most of the citizens were doing what any smart civilian would do, find cover fast.



You might want to check CNN's front page. It looks like there are a lot of civilians out in certain areas at least.


well watching news now and saw a bunch of people hiding and ducking down.

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Main Man






Beast Coast

Asterios wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
Asterios wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.
We should support the putsch, and not this dictator.
What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



We don't really know who the people of Turkey are supporting at this point. I haven't seen anything conclusive in any of the video footage so far showing them supporting one side or the other.


from what I saw most of the citizens were doing what any smart civilian would do, find cover fast.



You might want to check CNN's front page. It looks like there are a lot of civilians out in certain areas at least.


well watching news now and saw a bunch of people hiding and ducking down.


Do you know where? Was it Istanbul or somewhere else? Istanbul is humongous of course so there is probably a lot of different things going on depending on what part of the city is being shown.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hordini wrote:
Asterios wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
Asterios wrote:
 Hordini wrote:
 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.
We should support the putsch, and not this dictator.
What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



We don't really know who the people of Turkey are supporting at this point. I haven't seen anything conclusive in any of the video footage so far showing them supporting one side or the other.


from what I saw most of the citizens were doing what any smart civilian would do, find cover fast.



You might want to check CNN's front page. It looks like there are a lot of civilians out in certain areas at least.


well watching news now and saw a bunch of people hiding and ducking down.


Do you know where? Was it Istanbul or somewhere else? Istanbul is humongous of course so there is probably a lot of different things going on depending on what part of the city is being shown.


heard the CNN building was overtaken by the people behind the coup but think it was Istanbul

Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project. 
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Ruh oh...


Pres. Erdogan is speaking at a press conference, live on NTV rn. #Turkey

Anup Kaphle ‏@AnupKaphle 9m9 minutes ago
"This uprising was carried by a minority of the military that can't stand unity of the country," Erdogan says in Istanbul. #Turkey

‏@AnupKaphle
"Turkey is not the old Turkey anymore. The uprising will be a reason to "clean up" the army," Erdogan says in Istanbul. #Turkey


The Purge™ may be coming....


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Beast Coast

I wonder if after he purges the military, he'll declare a state of emergency and try something to maintain power like suspend elections and so on. Certainly sounds like the potential beginning of things going from bad to worse.

   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Hooboy...
Liz SlyVerified account
‏@LizSly
Turkey's PM orders warplanes still loyal to the government to take to the skies to shoot down those still loyal to the coup plotters.


I wonder how many loyalist vs coup'ers are in the air.

o.O

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/16 01:46:07


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Or will declaring his intent to purge the military be seen as an attack on the military as a whole, and drive more people to the coup side out of loyalty to their comrades? It seems to me like the kind of thing you say when you don't have control of the situation, an attempt to scare people into obedience. If the coup is only a minority and quickly being cleaned up the last thing you want to do is say is anything that the majority could view as a threat before the coup is actually over.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/16 01:51:21


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Zealous Sin-Eater




Montreal

 Peregrine wrote:
Or will declaring his intent to purge the military be seen as an attack on the military as a whole, and drive more people to the coup side out of loyalty to their comrades?


Exactly my thoughts. And the simple fact that the Army managed to get jets in the air in support of the Coup should speak to the fact that the Turkey of today is, at least partially, still the Turkey of the 90s.

Something something interesting times.

[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Peregrine wrote:
Or will declaring his intent to purge the military be seen as an attack on the military as a whole, and drive more people to the coup side out of loyalty to their comrades? It seems to me like the kind of thing you say when you don't have control of the situation, an attempt to scare people into obedience. If the coup is only a minority and quickly being cleaned up the last thing you want to do is say is anything that the majority could view as a threat before the coup is actually over.

Good points.... we're in for a looooong night at Turkey.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

 LordofHats wrote:
 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.


What choice do they really have? Like him or not, he is the legitimate leader of the Turkish state ( and boy do I not like him). The world stage isn't going to actively support the overthrow of a democratically elected leader, even if he is a donkey-cave. It's just not going to happen.

What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



I find that the only people who ever end up with a coup trying to overthrow them are people that have the support of their citizens...



I don't remember a lot of countries defended Ianoukovytch during the illegal putsch at Kiev ...

   
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Room

Disturbing news... Chaos everywhere.

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The Lost and Damned
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The Main Man






Beast Coast

 Peregrine wrote:
Or will declaring his intent to purge the military be seen as an attack on the military as a whole, and drive more people to the coup side out of loyalty to their comrades? It seems to me like the kind of thing you say when you don't have control of the situation, an attempt to scare people into obedience. If the coup is only a minority and quickly being cleaned up the last thing you want to do is say is anything that the majority could view as a threat before the coup is actually over.



Good points. The military personnel supporting the coup were able to fire up a lot of heavy assets (aircraft, tanks, etc.) which is no mean feat. It's not over 'til it's over I suppose!

   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer



What if the whole coup is faked? People are already speculating this was due to an economic crisis on it's way for Turkey and Erdogan will use this coup to blame for the crisis and allow him to push his agenda further.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hordini wrote:
I wonder if after he purges the military, he'll declare a state of emergency and try something to maintain power like suspend elections and so on.


He could do this for example.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/16 02:47:23


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Horus Heresy Alpha Legion
Tyranids  
   
Made in ca
Zealous Sin-Eater




Montreal

Reuters reporting the coup as a failure.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-primeminister-idUSKCN0ZV2HK

Spoiler:
An attempted Turkish military coup appeared to crumble in the early hours of Saturday after crowds answered President Tayyip Erdogan's call to take to the streets to support him.

Erdogan, who had been holidaying on the coast when the coup was launched, flew into Istanbul before dawn on Saturday and was shown on TV appearing among a crowd of supporters outside the airport, which the coup plotters had failed to secure.

The uprising was an "act of treason", and those responsible would pay a heavy price, he later told reporters at a hastily arranged news conference. Arrests of officers were under way, and it would go higher up the ranks, culminating in the cleansing of the military.

Gunfire and explosions had rocked both the main city Istanbul and capital Ankara in a chaotic night after soldiers took up positions in both cities and ordered state television to read out a statement declaring they had taken power.

But by early Saturday, Reuters journalists saw around 30 pro-coup soldiers surrender their weapons after being surrounded by armed police in Istanbul's central Taksim square.

They were taken away in police vans as a fighter jet repeatedly screeched overhead at low altitude, causing a boom that shook surrounding buildings and shattered windows.

A successful overthrow of Erdogan, who has ruled Turkey since 2003, would have marked one of the biggest shifts in the Middle East in years, transforming one of the most important U.S. allies while war rages on its border. A failed coup attempt could still destabilize a pivotal country.

Before returning to Istanbul, Erdogan appeared in a video call to the studio of the Turkish sister channel of CNN, where an announcer held up a mobile phone to the camera to show him. He called on Turks to take to the streets to defend his government and said the coup plotters would pay a heavy price.

By the early hours of Saturday morning, lawmakers were still hiding in shelters inside the parliament building in Ankara, which had been fired on by tanks. Smoke rose up from nearby, Reuters witnesses said. An opposition MP told Reuters parliament was hit three times and that people had been wounded.

A Turkish military commander said fighter jets had shot down a helicopter used by the coup plotters over Ankara. State-run Anadolu news agency said 17 police were killed at special forces headquarters there.

As the night wore on, momentum turned against the coup plotters. Crowds defied orders to stay indoors, gathering at major squares in Istanbul and Ankara, waving flags and chanting.

"We have a prime minister, we have a chief of command, we're not going to leave this country to degenerates," shouted one man, as groups of government supporters climbed onto a tank near Istanbul's Ataturk airport.

Erdogan and other officials blamed loyalists of a U.S.-based cleric for the coup attempt; his movement denied any part in it.

U.S. SUPPORT

The United States declared its firm backing for Erdogan's government. Secretary of State John Kerry said he phoned the Turkish foreign minister and emphasized "absolute support for Turkey's democratically elected, civilian government and democratic institutions".

The coup began with warplanes and helicopters roaring over Ankara and troops moving in to seal off the bridges over the Bosphorus that link Europe and Asia in Istanbul.

Reuters reporters saw a helicopter open fire in Ankara. Anadolu said military helicopters had fired on the headquarters of the intelligence agency.

In the first hours of the coup attempt, airports were shut and access to internet social media sites was cut off.

Soldiers took control of TRT state television, which announced a countrywide curfew and martial law. An announcer read a statement on the orders of the military that accused the government of eroding the democratic and secular rule of law. The country would be run by a "peace council" that would ensure the safety of the population, the statement said.

Shortly afterwards, TRT went off the air. It resumed broadcasting in the early hours of Saturday.

Anadolu said the chief of Turkey's military staff was among people taken "hostage" in the capital Ankara, but Prime Minister Binali Yildirim later said he was back in control.

"NOT A TINPOT COUP"

Early in the evening the coup appeared strong. A senior EU source monitoring the situation said: "It looks like a relatively well orchestrated coup by a significant body of the military, not just a few colonels. They've got control of the airports and are expecting control over the TV station imminently. They control several strategic points in Istanbul.

"Given the scale of the operation, it is difficult to imagine they will stop short of prevailing."

One European diplomat was dining with the Turkish ambassador to a European capital when guests were interrupted by the pinging of urgent news on their mobile phones.

"This is clearly not some tinpot little coup. The Turkish ambassador was clearly shocked and is taking it very seriously," the diplomat told Reuters as the dinner party broke up. "However it looks in the morning, this will have massive implications for Turkey. This has not come out of nowhere."

Turkey, a NATO member with the second biggest military in the Western alliance, is one of the most important allies of the United States in the fight against Islamic State, which seized swathes of neighboring Iraq and Syria.

The Pentagon said there was no impact on operations against Islamic State from the U.S. air base at Incirlik in Turkey.

Turkey is also one of the main backers of opponents of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in that country's civil war, host to 2.7 million Syrian refugees and launchpad last year for the biggest influx of migrants to Europe since World War Two.

Celebratory gunfire erupted in Syria's capital Damascus after the army claimed to have toppled Erdogan. People took the streets to celebrate there and in other government-held cities.

Turkey has been at war with Kurdish separatists, and has suffered numerous bombing and shooting attacks this year, including an attack two weeks ago by Islamists at Istanbul's main airport that killed more than 40 people.

Turkish officials blamed the attempted coup on followers of Fethullah Gulen, an influential cleric in self-imposed exile in the United States who once supported Erdogan but became a nemesis. The pro-Gulen Alliance for Shared Values said it condemned any military intervention in domestic politics.

After serving as prime minister from 2003, Erdogan was elected president in 2014 with plans to alter the constitution to give the previously ceremonial presidency far greater executive powers.

Turkey has enjoyed an economic boom during his time in office and has dramatically expanded its influence across the region. But opponents say his rule has become increasingly authoritarian.

His AK Party, with roots in Islamism, has long had a strained relationship with the military and nationalists in a state that was founded on secularist principles after World War One. The military has a history of mounting coups to defend secularism, but has not seized power directly since 1980.

Prime Minister Yildirim said a group within Turkey's military had attempted to overthrow the government and security forces have been called in to "do what is necessary".

"Some people illegally undertook an illegal action outside of the chain of command," Yildirim said in comments broadcast by private channel NTV.

"The government elected by the people remains in charge. This government will only go when the people say so."

(Reporting by Humeyra Pamuk, Ayla Jean Yackley, Nick Tattersall, David Dolan, Akin Aytekin, Tulay Karadeniz, Can Sezer, Gulsen Solaker, Ece Toksabay, Murad Sezer, Ercan Gurses, Nevzat Devranoglu, Dasha Afanasieva, Birsen Altayli and Orhan Coskun; Writing by Peter Graff; Editing by Catherine Evans and Mary Milliken)


I have to wonder, wouldn't it be easier for the U.S. to have the military at the helm, if only for a while?


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/16 03:12:07


[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

Being staged would explain the general incompetence, access to jets and heavy armour from what is described as a "minority" in the military, and Erdogan waltzing back in to Istanbul like some sort of chosen man of the Gods to retake control.

Early days yet, though, and I don't want to light the fires of conspiracy for the moment.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

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Montreal

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Early days yet, though, and I don't want to light the fires of conspiracy for the moment.


But the flames could climb so high!

[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
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United States

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

I have to wonder, wouldn't it be easier for the U.S. to have the military at the helm, if only for a while?


From the perspective of the US there aren't many options worse than Erdoğan, and the Turkish military has historically been amenable to US interests.

 LordofHats wrote:
The world stage isn't going to actively support the overthrow of a democratically elected leader, even if he is a donkey-cave.


Well, it might...

Dinnerjacket had about as much legitimacy as Erdoğan does, but the US doesn't have military bases in Iran.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/16 05:01:23


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
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Sweden

 godardc wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
 godardc wrote:
It is kinda sad that the whole world sided with erdogan.


What choice do they really have? Like him or not, he is the legitimate leader of the Turkish state ( and boy do I not like him). The world stage isn't going to actively support the overthrow of a democratically elected leader, even if he is a donkey-cave. It's just not going to happen.

What is even more sad is the people of turkey are supporting him too...



I find that the only people who ever end up with a coup trying to overthrow them are people that have the support of their citizens...



I don't remember a lot of countries defended Ianoukovytch during the illegal putsch at Kiev ...


Presumably because Ukraine didn't go from 0 to coup in a day. There's also the vote of no confidence that May or may not have been legal, depending on who you ask, whereas the military mobilising armour and air support and suddenly seizing power unambiguously is illegal.

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Everett, WA

Looks like it's over except for the mopping up. Over 1100 arrested.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/16 07:20:38


 
   
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I guess Erdogan took advantage of it to lock some opponents up and purge every dissenting voice he could think of.

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