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I would suggest not strapping shotguns to all your marines before GW has their say... They've been very fast with erratas or new stuff lately, Silver Tower for example.

Funny you should mention this. I was looking at the Vanguard entry and the unit type is "jump infantry", but if you look at the equipment list, a jump pack isn't on it —and there's no way to buy one in the wargear section. Am I missing something? It's like they planned on not making foot-slogging Vanguard an option for DW, but then forgot to add a jump pack back to the base equipment list.

I read that too, There are people with better knowledge of how rules work. Is there a way to work around this? Only thing I can think of is since jump packs give jump infantry status, maybe because they are already listed as jump infantry, that would give them jump packs automatically?

 Kanluwen wrote:

I just think it is bizarre that the relic Special Issue Ammunition has a profile for Stalker Boltguns...but they are Special Weapons, thus unable to be taken by anyone who can take the relic Special Issue Ammunition.

The Shotguns and Stalkers are both listed as Special Weapons, which is strange.

Special Issue Ammunition is listed on the Veterans unit entry. They got it already, regardless of what bolt-weapon pattern they take. And they can all take a Special weapon anyway. No issue there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 conker249 wrote:

Funny you should mention this. I was looking at the Vanguard entry and the unit type is "jump infantry", but if you look at the equipment list, a jump pack isn't on it —and there's no way to buy one in the wargear section. Am I missing something? It's like they planned on not making foot-slogging Vanguard an option for DW, but then forgot to add a jump pack back to the base equipment list.

I read that too, There are people with better knowledge of how rules work. Is there a way to work around this? Only thing I can think of is since jump packs give jump infantry status, maybe because they are already listed as jump infantry, that would give them jump packs automatically?

I'm sure it's an omission akin to the 'do Terminators have Terminator Armour?' flaff of yore, but yes, the Unit Type is enough to tell you how they operate.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I just think it is bizarre that the relic Special Issue Ammunition has a profile for Stalker Boltguns...but they are Special Weapons, thus unable to be taken by anyone who can take the relic Special Issue Ammunition.

The Shotguns and Stalkers are both listed as Special Weapons, which is strange.

Special Issue Ammunition is listed on the Veterans unit entry. They got it already, regardless of what bolt-weapon pattern they take. And they can all take a Special weapon anyway. No issue there.

There is a special Relic called the "Banebolts of Eryxia".

Banebolts have a profile for Stalker pattern Boltguns--but no character who can take Relics can take a Stalker pattern Boltgun.

That is what I was referring to--along with the fact that Shotguns and Stalker Boltguns, traditionally, are not some kind of "unique special weapon" but rather basic weapon options.

 conker249 wrote:

Funny you should mention this. I was looking at the Vanguard entry and the unit type is "jump infantry", but if you look at the equipment list, a jump pack isn't on it —and there's no way to buy one in the wargear section. Am I missing something? It's like they planned on not making foot-slogging Vanguard an option for DW, but then forgot to add a jump pack back to the base equipment list.

I read that too, There are people with better knowledge of how rules work. Is there a way to work around this? Only thing I can think of is since jump packs give jump infantry status, maybe because they are already listed as jump infantry, that would give them jump packs automatically?

Do jump packs grant any capabilities beyond making the model jump infantry?

If not then it's irrelevant whether they have packs or not.

Thanks for that. I feel like such a newb asking all these questions for this army. Just want to really understand how they work the first time, and not getting everything wrong during matches

 master sheol wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Strategium Command Team:
Chaplain: Bike
7xVanguard Vets with 2xHeavy TH, 3xTH/SS, 2xPC/SS, Blackshield(the heavy TH guy), jump packs

White Scar Libby Conclave:
4xLibbies with force axe, lvl2

Blackshield is an option only for vets and cannot have Jump packs...

 russian69hitman wrote:

 master sheol wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Strategium Command Team:
Chaplain: Bike
7xVanguard Vets with 2xHeavy TH, 3xTH/SS, 2xPC/SS, Blackshield(the heavy TH guy), jump packs

White Scar Libby Conclave:
4xLibbies with force axe, lvl2

Blackshield is an option only for vets and cannot have Jump packs...

The pic right from GW shows a jump pack dude with the giant shield & mace (in the OP page 1 of this thread) (that's the blackshield, right?)...

Nope, that's a vanguard with a shield and power weapon.

Blackshield has nothing to do with gear, though he can take gear. It's basically an upgrade to WS5 and doubling of attacks in certain situations.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 conker249 wrote:

Funny you should mention this. I was looking at the Vanguard entry and the unit type is "jump infantry", but if you look at the equipment list, a jump pack isn't on it —and there's no way to buy one in the wargear section. Am I missing something? It's like they planned on not making foot-slogging Vanguard an option for DW, but then forgot to add a jump pack back to the base equipment list.

I read that too, There are people with better knowledge of how rules work. Is there a way to work around this? Only thing I can think of is since jump packs give jump infantry status, maybe because they are already listed as jump infantry, that would give them jump packs automatically?

Do jump packs grant any capabilities beyond making the model jump infantry?

If not then it's irrelevant whether they have packs or not.

The real problem is this which mistake did they make? Did they intend to make them jump infantry to begin with and forgot to add it to their existing wargear (probably) or did they intend to leave it off and then allow you to take one as added wargear (possibly)? It would really be nice if Vanguard could go packless. They'd fit in with foot-slogging killteams better and you wouldn't have the issue of them being bulky for transport slots.

I have the Death Masque boxed set in hand...lovely stuff. The Kill Team sprue is chock a block of bits, just so much stuff and so many possibilities. But am definitely going to wait a while before kitting out my Kill Team just to not have to rip any of the miniatures to bits.

 Kanluwen wrote:


Banebolts have a profile for Stalker pattern Boltguns--but no character who can take Relics can take a Stalker pattern Boltgun.

That is what I was referring to--along with the fact that Shotguns and Stalker Boltguns, traditionally, are not some kind of "unique special weapon" but rather basic weapon options.

Sprue count says otherwise unless you're rich! ;-)

Fair dos on the relic... see, if you'd typed Banebolts from the off... :-D

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:


Banebolts have a profile for Stalker pattern Boltguns--but no character who can take Relics can take a Stalker pattern Boltgun.

That is what I was referring to--along with the fact that Shotguns and Stalker Boltguns, traditionally, are not some kind of "unique special weapon" but rather basic weapon options.

Sprue count says otherwise unless you're rich! ;-)

Fair dos on the relic... see, if you'd typed Banebolts from the off... :-D

I didn't have the name handy, hence why I said "relic Special Issue ammunition"

Ah, okay. Thank you Bulldogging.

 conker249 wrote:

Funny you should mention this. I was looking at the Vanguard entry and the unit type is "jump infantry", but if you look at the equipment list, a jump pack isn't on it —and there's no way to buy one in the wargear section. Am I missing something? It's like they planned on not making foot-slogging Vanguard an option for DW, but then forgot to add a jump pack back to the base equipment list.

I read that too, There are people with better knowledge of how rules work. Is there a way to work around this? Only thing I can think of is since jump packs give jump infantry status, maybe because they are already listed as jump infantry, that would give them jump packs automatically?

Bikers have the same issue. They don't have space marine bikes in their wargear. Noticed it when their twin-linked boltguns were listed, since that's usually in the space marine bike profile.

I'm curious if this is following a new rules format, or it's just complete lack of consistency.

 russian69hitman wrote:

 master sheol wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Strategium Command Team:
Chaplain: Bike
7xVanguard Vets with 2xHeavy TH, 3xTH/SS, 2xPC/SS, Blackshield(the heavy TH guy), jump packs

White Scar Libby Conclave:
4xLibbies with force axe, lvl2

Blackshield is an option only for vets and cannot have Jump packs...

The pic right from GW shows a jump pack dude with the giant shield & mace (in the OP page 1 of this thread) (that's she blackshield, right?)...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 russian69hitman wrote:

 master sheol wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Strategium Command Team:
Chaplain: Bike
7xVanguard Vets with 2xHeavy TH, 3xTH/SS, 2xPC/SS, Blackshield(the heavy TH guy), jump packs

White Scar Libby Conclave:
4xLibbies with force axe, lvl2

Blackshield is an option only for vets and cannot have Jump packs...

The pic right from GW shows a jump pack dude with the giant shield & mace (in the OP page 1 of this thread) (that's she blackshield, right?)...

The BlackShield refers to their right shoulder pauldron being blacked out. The big Shields are just Storm shields.

Anyone know what the Harlequin formation does in this boxset? Did Harlequins gain a formation of any significance?

 russian69hitman wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 russian69hitman wrote:

 master sheol wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Strategium Command Team:
Chaplain: Bike
7xVanguard Vets with 2xHeavy TH, 3xTH/SS, 2xPC/SS, Blackshield(the heavy TH guy), jump packs

White Scar Libby Conclave:
4xLibbies with force axe, lvl2

Blackshield is an option only for vets and cannot have Jump packs...

The pic right from GW shows a jump pack dude with the giant shield & mace (in the OP page 1 of this thread) (that's she blackshield, right?)...

The BlackShield refers to their right shoulder pauldron being blacked out. The big Shields are just Storm shields.

Why then, if it is just a blacked out shoulder pad, couldn't a mini have a jump pack?

One oddity about the Death Masque set, they have forgotten to put the instructions for the Harlequin jet bikes in. Also in my local store one of the punters was lucky enough to have an additional Artemis in his box. Hope other Dakkaites are as lucky.

When I eventually do start this army (probably next year), I'm thinking CC-heavy force loaded up in Landraider Crusaders. Probably not the strongest choice for this army, but I think it'll be fun to play.

I was thinking of adding some BaC bits, along with some older marks, to help create a Carcharadon member of a Kill Team. This could be interesting.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
One oddity about the Death Masque set, they have forgotten to put the instructions for the Harlequin jet bikes in.

Assembly instructions? If so, they're available as a pdf HERE on GW's website.

I saw a few posts back, can't find it, that Artemis will be sold in a clam pack? Anyone know price yet?

 russian69hitman wrote:
I saw a few posts back, can't find it, that Artemis will be sold in a clam pack? Anyone know price yet?

All boxed sets HQ were released later as clampacks...
Usually a SM character costs about 23-25€

Mchaagen wrote:
Bikers have the same issue. They don't have space marine bikes in their wargear. Noticed it when their twin-linked boltguns were listed, since that's usually in the space marine bike profile.

I'm curious if this is following a new rules format, or it's just complete lack of consistency.

It's maybe just simplification. The unit type says 'Bike' and the T upgrade is built in. No need to add bike to wargear too. It would make a welcome change to simplify things this way.

The Tau Sun Shark bomber didn't have its listing for its bomb despite the whole model being built around the bomb launcher. SO some people tried to claim that it couldn't fire its bomb since it wasn't listed.

It was FAQ'ed in with out recent one. Anyone who tries to say they don't have a jump pack is being ridiculous cheesmonger who I wouldn't want to play with.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Mchaagen wrote:
Bikers have the same issue. They don't have space marine bikes in their wargear. Noticed it when their twin-linked boltguns were listed, since that's usually in the space marine bike profile.

I'm curious if this is following a new rules format, or it's just complete lack of consistency.

It's maybe just simplification. The unit type says 'Bike' and the T upgrade is built in. No need to add bike to wargear too. It would make a welcome change to simplify things this way.

It would be very Age of Sigmar-y; which is not a bad thing.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
I have the Death Masque boxed set in hand...lovely stuff. The Kill Team sprue is chock a block of bits, just so much stuff and so many possibilities. But am definitely going to wait a while before kitting out my Kill Team just to not have to rip any of the miniatures to bits.

Just finished looking through my sprues, the Deathwatch Veterans are one of the coolest and one of the worst SM sprues of the last years. Full of cool bits and options, but only a few of each, so you can't give everyone the same gear. But 6 Power Swords and the upgrade sprues has another one. And every boltgun is one-handed...
I'm glad Deathwatch is finally here, but mad at the same time for a wasted chance. The Vanguard, Sternguard and SM 2015 kits are MUCH better designed in terms of options.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Mchaagen wrote:
Bikers have the same issue. They don't have space marine bikes in their wargear. Noticed it when their twin-linked boltguns were listed, since that's usually in the space marine bike profile.

I'm curious if this is following a new rules format, or it's just complete lack of consistency.

It's maybe just simplification. The unit type says 'Bike' and the T upgrade is built in. No need to add bike to wargear too. It would make a welcome change to simplify things this way.

Ita a readdressing. Take 5th Ed, for example, where there was Space Marine Bike as wargear.

The actual model profile was "Space Marine" which was exactly the same as a Tactical squad. The wargear option for "Space Marine Bike" differentiated the two by adding the Bike unit type, T4(5) and twinlinked bolter. Now that the toughness is built in, one of thos three things is redundant. So the profile can be made different by giving a different profile called "Space Marine Biker." That in itself, by definition, makes it a Bike unit type, which the model had anyway. So now the only thing the wargear option adds that the model didn't already have is the twinlinked bolter.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
One oddity about the Death Masque set, they have forgotten to put the instructions for the Harlequin jet bikes in. Also in my local store one of the punters was lucky enough to have an additional Artemis in his box. Hope other Dakkaites are as lucky.

That's cool. A 2nd artemis would be sweet conversion fodder.

Also, it looks like GW is becoming eco friendly (not a bad thing) now the assembly instructions are up on the product page.