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tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, because that's from White Dwarf for Overkill and released before the Deathwatch book came out. None of the specific stuff that released with Overkill is the same as the Deathwatch book. The Frag Cannon doesn't have the same unique rules, there's no Relics on anyone(Cassius is stated to have the Tome of Ectoclades in Overkill but doesn't have the Relic itself), no Mission Tactics, etc etc.

They're "Deathwatch Faction" but lack all the Deathwatch rules.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when we see the Genestealer Cultists get their own book there was some stuff we did not get with the WD release that makes them a heck of a lot scarier.

You sure? Unit getting released in codex did not invalidate it's rules in WD(space wolves priest thing you can now field both HQ and elite) nor did new version of supplement invalidate formation from old version of same supplement(greentide)...

GW seems to be on opinion it's released, it's legal to use whether new version has been released or not.

That's not the question I was replying to though, now was it?

The points and stats of the Cassius team from the Overkill rules are in line with it, but no models have the special rules contained within the Deathwatch faction.

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, because that's from White Dwarf for Overkill and released before the Deathwatch book came out. None of the specific stuff that released with Overkill is the same as the Deathwatch book. The Frag Cannon doesn't have the same unique rules, there's no Relics on anyone(Cassius is stated to have the Tome of Ectoclades in Overkill but doesn't have the Relic itself), no Mission Tactics, etc etc.

They're "Deathwatch Faction" but lack all the Deathwatch rules.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when we see the Genestealer Cultists get their own book there was some stuff we did not get with the WD release that makes them a heck of a lot scarier.

You sure? Unit getting released in codex did not invalidate it's rules in WD(space wolves priest thing you can now field both HQ and elite) nor did new version of supplement invalidate formation from old version of same supplement(greentide)...

GW seems to be on opinion it's released, it's legal to use whether new version has been released or not.

That's not the question I was replying to though, now was it?

The points and stats of the Cassius team from the Overkill rules are in line with it, but no models have the special rules contained within the Deathwatch faction.

This may be a case where the DW codex might benefit the Cassius team (you can still make the Cassius team by using the codex) better than the entry from overkill. I think it would come down to your opponents okay. On a side note, we have Artemis, where he's not in the codex but the Masque set has his points/stats. So, would one be allowed to use that supplement/wd for Artemis or would one require the DW player to "make" him using the DW codex? (Which might turn out the same anyways)...

 russian69hitman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, because that's from White Dwarf for Overkill and released before the Deathwatch book came out. None of the specific stuff that released with Overkill is the same as the Deathwatch book. The Frag Cannon doesn't have the same unique rules, there's no Relics on anyone(Cassius is stated to have the Tome of Ectoclades in Overkill but doesn't have the Relic itself), no Mission Tactics, etc etc.

They're "Deathwatch Faction" but lack all the Deathwatch rules.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when we see the Genestealer Cultists get their own book there was some stuff we did not get with the WD release that makes them a heck of a lot scarier.

You sure? Unit getting released in codex did not invalidate it's rules in WD(space wolves priest thing you can now field both HQ and elite) nor did new version of supplement invalidate formation from old version of same supplement(greentide)...

GW seems to be on opinion it's released, it's legal to use whether new version has been released or not.

That's not the question I was replying to though, now was it?

The points and stats of the Cassius team from the Overkill rules are in line with it, but no models have the special rules contained within the Deathwatch faction.

This may be a case where the DW codex might benefit the Cassius team (you can still make the Cassius team by using the codex) better than the entry from overkill. I think it would come down to your opponents okay. On a side note, we have Artemis, where he's not in the codex but the Masque set has his points/stats. So, would one be allowed to use that supplement/wd for Artemis or would one require the DW player to "make" him using the DW codex? (Which might turn out the same anyways)...

Artemis specifically has rules that all him to be used in a Deathwatch army, so yes you can use him.

They honestly didn't put Artemis in the Codex? For reals???

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They honestly didn't put Artemis in the Codex? For reals???

Fo' reals dawg.

The box sets are DLC required for you to get the full codex.

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, because that's from White Dwarf for Overkill and released before the Deathwatch book came out. None of the specific stuff that released with Overkill is the same as the Deathwatch book. The Frag Cannon doesn't have the same unique rules, there's no Relics on anyone(Cassius is stated to have the Tome of Ectoclades in Overkill but doesn't have the Relic itself), no Mission Tactics, etc etc.

They're "Deathwatch Faction" but lack all the Deathwatch rules.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if when we see the Genestealer Cultists get their own book there was some stuff we did not get with the WD release that makes them a heck of a lot scarier.

You sure? Unit getting released in codex did not invalidate it's rules in WD(space wolves priest thing you can now field both HQ and elite) nor did new version of supplement invalidate formation from old version of same supplement(greentide)...

GW seems to be on opinion it's released, it's legal to use whether new version has been released or not.

That's not the question I was replying to though, now was it?

The points and stats of the Cassius team from the Overkill rules are in line with it, but no models have the special rules contained within the Deathwatch faction.

In that case you weren't answering to op's question which was "If not, could one use the points/stats of the Cassius team from the Overkill supp? ". One can use rules from the WD unless stated otherwise elsewhere. It's valid GW release and GW is on mind of "what is published is legal".

So they don't get special rules contained within deathwatch faction? Ok. But is there anything in WD rules themselves that makes them literally unplayable without them? I don't think so. People were using those rules before codex was released. People can still use them and take them to tournaments as well unless organizer specifically bans it.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They honestly didn't put Artemis in the Codex? For reals???

Weird huh? I can't imagine that it would have been that difficult to put him in there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They honestly didn't put Artemis in the Codex? For reals???

Weird huh? I can't imagine that it would have been that difficult to put him in there.

But if they did that they wouldn't be able to have store staff upsell the White Dwarf with his rules in when they inevitably release his clampack in a few months time and in the meantime some people might have, heaven forfend, converted a version themselves and so decide not to buy the model

Of course, they've once again made the teeny wee error of forgetting the internet exists.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Of course, they've once again made the teeny wee error of forgetting the internet exists.

Of course the Internet makes the tiny we error of overstating its reach once again. While most people have the Internet and are engaged with it, not everyone uses hobby sites, in fact at least four people who are involved in the hobby that I play with refuse to come on sites like Dakka etc. And only engage with the hobby on a purely physical level, aside from occasionally buying things online. It's a tactile hobby, that's kind of the point for some people to get away from the computer/ iPad / smartphone.

People into our hobby are the kind of people to be switched on enough to seek out others online.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People into our hobby are the kind of people to be switched on enough to seek out others online.

I am a close friend of someone who just...

Well, let's just say he struggles to understand that he only has a 1/6 chance of rolling a 6 on a D6...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
People into our hobby are the kind of people to be switched on enough to seek out others online.

You're missing my point entirely. Or deliberately. I'm not saying someone's stupid enough not to find Artemis' data online. I'm saying they don't want to be bothered engaging with the online community. I'm saying that wargaming is their time away from computers and the online world, so they deliberately DONT want to come online as part of the hobby. These people exist and I know them.

I, for one, do not like having to use PDF files or an iPad to get my rules.

 General Kroll wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Of course, they've once again made the teeny wee error of forgetting the internet exists.

Of course the Internet makes the tiny we error of overstating its reach once again. While most people have the Internet and are engaged with it, not everyone uses hobby sites, in fact at least four people who are involved in the hobby that I play with refuse to come on sites like Dakka etc. And only engage with the hobby on a purely physical level, aside from occasionally buying things online. It's a tactile hobby, that's kind of the point for some people to get away from the computer/ iPad / smartphone.

I've never met any gamers so divorced from the internet that they don't know a single person who uses it and could respond to "I wish I could get those Artemis rules so I could convert my own" with "Oh here, let me google that for you"

 Selym wrote:
I, for one, do not like having to use PDF files or an iPad to get my rules.

They have these amazing devices these days known as "printers" that can turn digital information into physical sheets of paper. Truly, we live in an age of wonders

 Yodhrin wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Of course, they've once again made the teeny wee error of forgetting the internet exists.

Of course the Internet makes the tiny we error of overstating its reach once again. While most people have the Internet and are engaged with it, not everyone uses hobby sites, in fact at least four people who are involved in the hobby that I play with refuse to come on sites like Dakka etc. And only engage with the hobby on a purely physical level, aside from occasionally buying things online. It's a tactile hobby, that's kind of the point for some people to get away from the computer/ iPad / smartphone.

I've never met any gamers so divorced from the internet that they don't know a single person who uses it and could respond to "I wish I could get those Artemis rules so I could convert my own" with "Oh here, let me google that for you"

 Selym wrote:
I, for one, do not like having to use PDF files or an iPad to get my rules.

They have these amazing devices these days known as "printers" that can turn digital information into physical sheets of paper. Truly, we live in an age of wonders

Or you know, people have a moral conscious to not pirate the rules. Or aren't interested in the rules. Or want the actual model because the rules are not their main motivation and they want to have this nostalgic model. Similar to the 25th anniversary model of Captain Cortez, or the Imperial Space Marine. Its certainly easy enough to convert a Powerfist/Plasma Pistol captain, or a Space Marine with a beakie and a wierd combi-weapon, download the rules online, but its just not the same as actually having the model.

Just like Captain Karlaen received a Dataslate when his model saw general release, I am willing to bet that Watch Captain Artemis will as well if, and when, his model sees general release.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Of course, they've once again made the teeny wee error of forgetting the internet exists.

Of course the Internet makes the tiny we error of overstating its reach once again. While most people have the Internet and are engaged with it, not everyone uses hobby sites, in fact at least four people who are involved in the hobby that I play with refuse to come on sites like Dakka etc. And only engage with the hobby on a purely physical level, aside from occasionally buying things online. It's a tactile hobby, that's kind of the point for some people to get away from the computer/ iPad / smartphone.

I've never met any gamers so divorced from the internet that they don't know a single person who uses it and could respond to "I wish I could get those Artemis rules so I could convert my own" with "Oh here, let me google that for you"

 Selym wrote:
I, for one, do not like having to use PDF files or an iPad to get my rules.

They have these amazing devices these days known as "printers" that can turn digital information into physical sheets of paper. Truly, we live in an age of wonders

Or you know, people have a moral conscious to not pirate the rules. Or aren't interested in the rules. Or want the actual model because the rules are not their main motivation and they want to have this nostalgic model. Similar to the 25th anniversary model of Captain Cortez, or the Imperial Space Marine. Its certainly easy enough to convert a Powerfist/Plasma Pistol captain, or a Space Marine with a beakie and a wierd combi-weapon, download the rules online, but its just not the same as actually having the model.

This is what happens when you don't bother to read what people have written. I laid out a specific scenario in which a person would want the rules and wouldn't want or care to wait for the official model, and pointed out the futility of trying to engineer your releases to force such a person into waiting for said official model with the official rules rerelease given the internet. My further comments were to address someone claiming "yeah, but some people don't visit forums" as if that was a serious counterpoint.

Your only even potentially valid objection is the "piracy" remark, and frankly I think you'll struggle to find many people uptight enough that they would refuse to use a digital copy of out of print rules(which they would be in the scenario outlined) because it's a technical infringement of copyright.

Is there any more News or Rumors to discuss here?

 Alpharius wrote:
Is there any more News or Rumors to discuss here?

Nope.

Plastic thouand sons sorcerer in other thread. MMMMMMMMMMMmmmm, perils of wallet...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They honestly didn't put Artemis in the Codex? For reals???

Weird huh? I can't imagine that it would have been that difficult to put him in there.

It's worth noting that Cassius and his Kill-Team from Overkill's rules do not have the "Mission Tactics" rules that all Deathwatch have...nor does he even have the Tome of Ectoclades that he is claimed to have in his fluff.

It makes me think that we'll see Artemis and Cassius as characters in a future campaign book set around the rise of a Genestealer Cult...or it lends some credence to the idea of 8th edition being soon and the availability of downloadable profiles with model releases.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Is there any more News or Rumors to discuss here?

Nope.

Off to 40k General!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They honestly didn't put Artemis in the Codex? For reals???

Weird huh? I can't imagine that it would have been that difficult to put him in there.

It's worth noting that Cassius and his Kill-Team from Overkill's rules do not have the "Mission Tactics" rules that all Deathwatch have...nor does he even have the Tome of Ectoclades that he is claimed to have in his fluff.

It makes me think that we'll see Artemis and Cassius as characters in a future campaign book set around the rise of a Genestealer Cult...or it lends some credence to the idea of 8th edition being soon and the availability of downloadable profiles with model releases.

Keep in mind that Overkill took place in the past before the Tyranids made Cassius look pretty (note his Overkill mini has two eyes). This may be why KT Cassius isn't in the codex. He's no longer in the Deathwatch.

Indeed!