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Neophyte2012 wrote:

 crimson_caesar wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys!

I do agree with the opinion that DW really need to make every shot count, due to how expensive those shots are and how few models they're coming from. That's one thing that's putting me off about keeping my models, to maximise effectiveness I'm probably going to have to buy/scratch-build a load of Rhinos or Drop Pods (or even Land Raiders) which is a lot of extra time and money.

It depends on your approach.

For me, I'm spamming kill teams and bikes with locator beacons to position them. Each kill team as 1 bike... so I just need lots of bikes and vets. My list uses 2 drop pods for the CAD, but mostly focuses on the deepstriking kill teams.

I agree that bikers are good, but how to get those kill team w bikers into position quickly? They can't ride in any transports other than Blackstar, which means at the best scenario, they apear on table by 3rd turn. Or would you deep strike them by the detachment benefit?

Deepstrike them as part of the detachment benefit for sure

 Rezyn wrote:

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 crimson_caesar wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys!

I do agree with the opinion that DW really need to make every shot count, due to how expensive those shots are and how few models they're coming from. That's one thing that's putting me off about keeping my models, to maximise effectiveness I'm probably going to have to buy/scratch-build a load of Rhinos or Drop Pods (or even Land Raiders) which is a lot of extra time and money.

It depends on your approach.

For me, I'm spamming kill teams and bikes with locator beacons to position them. Each kill team as 1 bike... so I just need lots of bikes and vets. My list uses 2 drop pods for the CAD, but mostly focuses on the deepstriking kill teams.

I agree that bikers are good, but how to get those kill team w bikers into position quickly? They can't ride in any transports other than Blackstar, which means at the best scenario, they apear on table by 3rd turn. Or would you deep strike them by the detachment benefit?

Deepstrike them as part of the detachment benefit for sure

Yep. Current plan to get them in turn two is roll scrier's gaze or use an ADL with a relay. Use DW teleport homers to ensure precise deepstriking.

They could have made all other weapons - melee and ranged upgrades cost -5 points. That would decrease inflated costs ppm a bit.

Hey! Need some help picking allies for tournies (1850) and enhance my deathwatch army.

So for my primary I am running a a drop pod deathwatch marines with libby as warlord. The DW Marines will have either 1 or 2 squads of melta only, 2-3 squad of frag cannon/boltgun, and 1 squad of bodyguard for warlord, and 0-1 squad of stalker bolter.

For allies-wise I am thinking the following that might help supplement the weakness of my deathwatch army;

1. Skitarii Maniple: 2~3 full Vanguard squad x8 radium carbine with x2 Arc Rifle each, 3 Onager with Neutron Blaster each

2. Cult Mech: Elimination Maniple: 1 Kastelan Robot squad with TL heavy phospher, 2~3 Kataphron Destroyer min squad 1 heavy grav squad and 2 plasma culverin

Holy Requisitioner: 1 Datasmith, 2~3 Kataphron Breacher 1~2 torison squad and 1 heavy arc rifle squad

3. Imperial Guard: Allied: Tank Commander (Pask) - Punisher and demolisher in squad, 1 Leman Russ w/ Battle Cannon, and 1 vet or regular guardsmen.

4. I don't want to ally with other Space Marines or GK or SoB.

Any comments? Suggestions?

 fr3ddy wrote:
Hey! Need some help picking allies for tournies (1850) and enhance my deathwatch army.

So for my primary I am running a a drop pod deathwatch marines with libby as warlord. The DW Marines will have either 1 or 2 squads of melta only, 2-3 squad of frag cannon/boltgun, and 1 squad of bodyguard for warlord, and 0-1 squad of stalker bolter.

For allies-wise I am thinking the following that might help supplement the weakness of my deathwatch army;

1. Skitarii Maniple: 2~3 full Vanguard squad x8 radium carbine with x2 Arc Rifle each, 3 Onager with Neutron Blaster each

2. Cult Mech: Elimination Maniple: 1 Kastelan Robot squad with TL heavy phospher, 2~3 Kataphron Destroyer min squad 1 heavy grav squad and 2 plasma culverin

Holy Requisitioner: 1 Datasmith, 2~3 Kataphron Breacher 1~2 torison squad and 1 heavy arc rifle squad

3. Imperial Guard: Allied: Tank Commander (Pask) - Punisher and demolisher in squad, 1 Leman Russ w/ Battle Cannon, and 1 vet or regular guardsmen.

4. I don't want to ally with other Space Marines or GK or SoB.

Any comments? Suggestions?

I vote for regular guardsmen simply because I don't have much experience with the forces of Mars. But with your expensive marines podding up near the enemy, a few cheap ObSec bodies seems helpful. Bonus: Their cheap DTs can also have Obsec! Leman Russes with Battle Cannon might not be neccessary since DW infantry is already pretty good vs MEQ up close, but the Paskisher can threaten almost every unit you come up against while still taking some abuse. Since every casualty hurts the Deathwatch so hard, I like the idea of low-cost durability and redundancy.

If you're looking to go competitive, you will probably have to summplement the deathwatch with something to tie up, or otherwise counter deathstars... Since the DW are so expensive, and they really excel at over-killing infantry, dedicated units on objectives, and causing havok in a way that can make your opponent pivot and head towards them, you'll need something really resilient to control the field.

I'm not an AM player, but isn't there some way to get a gigantic blob that's fearless (conscripts or something?) with which you can stick a libby with the 4+ invuln relic to make them really nasty if they get locked in combat or don't move). You coudl then supplement with some nasty AA like FW Vultures to take on Flyrant spam.

Maybe that works?

Or, you could try to get some Knights in there to stomp out some deathstars... maybe an Acheron?

On another note, I like the thought of the Kastelan Robot squad because it's so tough... but you may need some more mobility.

I'd go with AM, but I'd have to look into the "guard blob" thing and see how to actually construct that

One thing I can not emphasize enough is to take transports whenever you can, either rhinos or drop pods.

Think about it: a marine is 22 points each. A rhino is 35. The rhino as basically 3ish extra wounds for your squad+any overkill. They are the cheapest per point durability you are going to get in a deathwatch force.

Even if you are taking a blackspear and not putting them in the transports, get some rhinos. They will help with objective grabbing and they can serve as a shield.

Example: Enemy has intercepter, have the rhinos rush forward and get in the way at the end of the movement phase granting a coversave, then have them flat out out of the way during the shooting phase. They also provide tank shock which can be helpful against units sitting on objectives as well as eldar bikers and other medium leadership units.


My current plan is to have a beacon angelis and a skyhammer annihilation force. Have 4 pods total in the list, two for skyhammer, one for the beacon, and a second for if the skyhammer is coming in turn two. I really need to get 5 drop pods total but I dont wanna assemble anymore....

I'm nearly finished painting it up for a tournament next month, but this is a general synopsis of the list I'll be using:

----------------------------------

Aquilla - 4x Missile Launcher, 4x Terminator/CML, Level 1 and 2 Librarian (WL), 4+ invlun relic

Two Aquillas with 4x Frag and Lib each, Drop Pods

3x Veteran Squads, one Drop Pod

Corvus

Inquisitor, Servo Skulls x3

-----------------------------------

TO is allowing RAW, so Bolters/Shotguns is allowed.

My only current concern is Tau, but I'm honestly not sure how much tau I'll see. I know I'm, bear minimum, going to see at LEAST a 5 Knight Army and a War Convocation, a battle company and a few scat bike eldar lists.

Any thoughts before I start testing? I'll double back with results after my games.

 Leth wrote:
One thing I can not emphasize enough is to take transports whenever you can, either rhinos or drop pods.

Think about it: a marine is 22 points each. A rhino is 35. The rhino as basically 3ish extra wounds for your squad+any overkill. They are the cheapest per point durability you are going to get in a deathwatch force.

Even if you are taking a blackspear and not putting them in the transports, get some rhinos. They will help with objective grabbing and they can serve as a shield.

Example: Enemy has intercepter, have the rhinos rush forward and get in the way at the end of the movement phase granting a coversave, then have them flat out out of the way during the shooting phase. They also provide tank shock which can be helpful against units sitting on objectives as well as eldar bikers and other medium leadership units.


My current plan is to have a beacon angelis and a skyhammer annihilation force. Have 4 pods total in the list, two for skyhammer, one for the beacon, and a second for if the skyhammer is coming in turn two. I really need to get 5 drop pods total but I dont wanna assemble anymore....

Wait, can you take a dedicated transport for a unit... but then have the unit deepstrike and have the transport on the board? Like put some razor backs out while the aquilas deepstrike?

Yes. You do not need to deploy inside the Transport, iirc.

I don't intend to always deploy my Veteran squads in their drop pods, for example.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Aquilla - 4x Missile Launcher, 4x Terminator/CML, Level 1 and 2 Librarian (WL), 4+ invlun relic

Shouldn't this be run as a Strategium Command Team? As far as I know, it still gains the benefits of the Aquila, plus the Adamantimum Will & Stubborn from the Libarian. The Terminators already fill the "One or more of..." requirement.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Yes. You do not need to deploy inside the Transport, iirc.

I don't intend to always deploy my Veteran squads in their drop pods, for example.

I like the idea that sometimes the Vets get tired of waiting for the pod to drop and just jump out.

 Ambience 327 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Aquilla - 4x Missile Launcher, 4x Terminator/CML, Level 1 and 2 Librarian (WL), 4+ invlun relic

Shouldn't this be run as a Strategium Command Team? As far as I know, it still gains the benefits of the Aquila, plus the Adamantimum Will & Stubborn from the Libarian. The Terminators already fill the "One or more of..." requirement.

The level 2 Librarian is from the "Command" choice for the Black Spear.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Ambience 327 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Aquilla - 4x Missile Launcher, 4x Terminator/CML, Level 1 and 2 Librarian (WL), 4+ invlun relic

Shouldn't this be run as a Strategium Command Team? As far as I know, it still gains the benefits of the Aquila, plus the Adamantimum Will & Stubborn from the Libarian. The Terminators already fill the "One or more of..." requirement.

The level 2 Librarian is from the "Command" choice for the Black Spear.

But as I said, the Terminators already fill the Aquila requirements, so the L1 Librarian would let you turn it into a Strategium Command Team.

I suppose that's true. Hadn't... thought of that for some reason?

This will now be a Strategium, then.

Taking that into account here's a better overall idea.

---------------------

Strategium Command: 555pts
Level 1 Librarian – Dominus Aegis
5 DW Veterans – 4x Missile Launcher
4 Terminators – 4x Cyclone Missile Launcher
1 DW Biker


Command Team: 95pts
ML 2 Librarian


Auxillary: 200pts
Corvus -- Reroll/Rockets


Aquilla Kill Team: 345
5DW Veterans – 4x Frag Cannon
1 Librarian – Beacon Angelis
Drop Pod


Aquilla Kill Team: 280
5DW Veterans – 4x Frag Cannon
1 Librarian


Three Kill Teams: 110pts Each
5x DW Veterans Shotgun/Bolter


Ordo Malleus Inquisitor: 42pts
3x Servo Skulls
Power Armor

-------------------------------------------

I know, I know, points, yadda yadda.

We get a biker for the missile team (split fire) and it let's me cut my drop pods down to 1, and give that single drop pod squad the Beacon Angelis, Deep Striking the other Frag Squad within 6", no Scatter, of the first team on turn one.

Nevermind. As someone who hates building/painting pods I like the 2 for 1 effect you're getting there.

I have 3 Pods, I actually bought, built and have them painted already. However, by using the Beacon, I'm able to add a biker to the Strategium which gives my super heavy hitter split fire and a jink shield.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I have 3 Pods, I actually bought, built and have them painted already. However, by using the Beacon, I'm able to add a biker to the Strategium which gives my super heavy hitter split fire and a jink shield.

Another interesting idea! This thread has given me a lot of insights on all of the possibilities for DW. I'm definitely going with a toned down version of your missile launcher deathstar idea, with only 1 or 2 termies with CML. I think 6 or 8 missile attacks is enough.

I only have 4 termies with CML, and I think I would be better served running a separate CML termie squad of 3 or 2 with a TH/SS termie, or 3 squads of one CML termie.

I'm also definitely fielding 2 or 3 drop pod 5 man veteran squads with x4 frag cannons. I'm not sure about putting libbies in with them. I have the models, but I don't know if it is worth it for a unit that will likely get shot off the table after they arrive and do their thing.

I am also considering a 10 man vet squad equipped with stalker pattern bolters to camp and snipe.

One idea that I am toying with is equipping virtually every shooty DW veteran with a storm shield. True, it adds 10 points to their cost, but it seems like it would definitely add to their durability. I have enough bits to do it, but if I do, I will probably magnetize.

I'm also thinking about running 3 squads of 1 biker each with melta bombs to harass enemy armor and walkers. Too bad they can't be equipped with melta guns.

I'm still not sure about the corvus, which is a shame since I have 3 models.

All in all, I was not sure about the DW codex, but it is starting to really grow on me.

Just played a fantastic 1000 pt game against Dark Eldar/Harlequins. Very fun. I will say that a single frag cannon pointed about just about anything vaporized it.

I highly recommend, if you're taking 2 frag cannons in a Kill Team, always take a biker. The split fire is a great option for the best heavy weapon in 40k.

I also think taking at least 1 or two storm shields might be worth it, place them where you'll be receiving a lot of AP 2/3 fire and have them shrug off 3-4 wounds and save your squad. I wish there was a cool way to use the Aegis Dominus.

Also locator beacons/dw teleport homers are great for this army. Recommend always.

I use the Aegis on my Warlord, a Librarian parked in the middle of a missle launcher squad. Sit 48" Away and give a blob of 12-3 Guys all a 4+ Invo, Tank the weaker shots on 2+ Terminators.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I suppose that's true. Hadn't... thought of that for some reason?

This will now be a Strategium, then.

Taking that into account here's a better overall idea.

---------------------

Strategium Command: 555pts
Level 1 Librarian – Dominus Aegis
5 DW Veterans – 4x Missile Launcher
4 Terminators – 4x Cyclone Missile Launcher
1 DW Biker


Command Team: 95pts
ML 2 Librarian


Auxillary: 200pts
Corvus -- Reroll/Rockets


Aquilla Kill Team: 345
5DW Veterans – 4x Frag Cannon
1 Librarian – Beacon Angelis
Drop Pod


Aquilla Kill Team: 280
5DW Veterans – 4x Frag Cannon
1 Librarian


Three Kill Teams: 110pts Each
5x DW Veterans Shotgun/Bolter


Ordo Malleus Inquisitor: 42pts
3x Servo Skulls
Power Armor

-------------------------------------------

I know, I know, points, yadda yadda.

We get a biker for the missile team (split fire) and it let's me cut my drop pods down to 1, and give that single drop pod squad the Beacon Angelis, Deep Striking the other Frag Squad within 6", no Scatter, of the first team on turn one.

I know DW aren't as flexible as SM for heavy weapons but missle launchers are not my favorite weapons. I think 3 frag cannons and cutting 15 points elsewhere would be much more worth. The other thing I'd be worried about is getting tabled if you go first, always try to go second (which is pretty standard for a reserve army.) Only having the 1 pod in a turn 1 means if you go first your beacon isn't going to work for avoiding scatter because it will be LOS in the corner of the board praying it can survive. Personally I'd drop the Corvus to get you up to 5 pods. That also gives you very nearly enough points to run that missle squad with 4 frag cannons instead. Losing the Corvus isn't really a big deal as it's not very good. In fact most flyers are bunk. I think the only competitive non-forgeworld flyer is the Heldrake. Unless you bring like 4-6 then they start to make a dent.

Need to have either a Corvus or a Dread as part of a Black Spear.

Dropping the missle launchers for a more in-your-face unit, to go along with my other 8 frag cannons. However, the current hope is to try and obtain the "Ignore LOS" power from the new psychic powers and hope it sticks.

After playing my first game with them versus a DKOK (With Coteaz and some Admech Tanks allied in) I can confirm that DW hit incredibly hard.

So much so that when I hit, whatever I point at is nearly guaranteed to die.

HOWEVER

Veterans are absolutely made of paper, and will die almost guaranteed on the rebound.

I'm kind of curious as to whether Deathwatch would make a good ally force with a Ravenwing Strike Force. I was considering allying in a Black Spear with a Watch Captain, an Aquila Kill Team, and a Corvus Blackstar as an auxiliary. Possibly a second kill team as appropriate. Would this synergize well with Ravenwing?

Hey gang quick question!

Can I have an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor lodged in an Aquila Kill Team, and zap him across the field with the Beacon Angelis relic? Planning on rolling with Rad Grenades.

Yes.

Feedback from two games against Grey Knights:

Tremendously squishy. It's kind of scary.

That being said, frag cannons are brutal. Their template version dishes out so many wounds it's incredible.

Aquila Kill teams are where it's at. Little factor I didn't notice at first, the rule says you reroll all ones to wound. This seems to effect psychic powers as well. Very nice bonus, considering.

I'm running pure Deathwatch, at 1850 with only an Inquisitor as an ally. It's good, and the defense is very worth it. I've yet to face Tau or the like but I think it'd essentially be an instant loss.

Need y'all's opinion,

I am currently running pod deathwatch and skitarii. The tactics works well against most, but recently I am thinking of meching up deathwatch.

Should I mech with mass rhinos or just stick with pods?

Does meching with rhino sync better with skitarii allies?

How does meching with rhino do as a space marine faction in general?

Thanks for all comments of suggestions.

The pods mesh better with the Skitarii. Deathwatch get an alpha strike and then Skitarii clean up what's left. Plus it makes the opponent really have to choose what's worse: Frag Cannons to the face or a bunch of Plasma and Rad.

So looking at building my deathwatch models but before I do I'd like to have a list in mind. I have a few ideas but also plenty of questions.

Aquila missile team.
Looking at this for anti-tank. 5 guys, 4 missiles, 2 terminators with cml, with a twin linked lascannon razorback (which I know they can't ride in) I had considered making it into a strategy command by adding a Chaplin or librarian with the shield relic. But is it worth it. Can the terminators not just tank any incoming instead of needing the shield?

Looking at two frag cannon teams in droppods, but how many is best per team. Is the max four overkill? Also do I add a couple of bolter marines in to soak up fire, or will they just get focused down the turn after they land regardless?
Also I feel having a third drop-pod squad would mean I could guarantee these two show up turn one. What's a cheap alternative that would do a job turning up on a later turn?

Breachers, 5 guys with storm shield & bolters + 4 with infernus heavy bolters as a anti-infantry hold objective type squad. But what should I add to make them aqulia. First thought is a librarian and stick them in a rhino, if so what powers am I after to boost them / how to kit out the librarian?

Artemis, I want to run him as my warlord, but he seems best in combat and I'm not sold on our combat options. What sort of unit should I run him in?

Lastly I have a corvus and from a fluff point of view want a squad of vanguards to drop out of it, but is there anyway to fit that in a blackspear formation, as I can't see one. In which case would I be stuck needing a standard foc setup?

Any ideas or suggestions would be welcome.