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Also, wasn't that retconned and removed? That's Matt Ward for you.... creating ridiculous scenarios.

 Vash108 wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Yea, just like it's even more preposterous that a space marine could beat a daemon primarch in single combat and rip out his heart.....oh wait. -_-
Which is to say it makes no sense and seriously diminishes the awe surrounding primarchs, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Ridiculous as it was, Draigo was a Grey Knight, not a "regular Astartes". Didn't he know Mortarion's true name as well? Makes a big difference with Daemons.

Did he have his super special deamon killing sword too?

Pretty sure that blade is the domain of the Grand Masters only, Draigo might have picked it up off of Geronitan's corpse but I can't remember if he did exactly.

I just checked and yeah, Draigo beat Mortarion by uttering his true name which is a pretty much guaranteed means to banish a Daemon.

"Ha ha! Pitiful servant of the False Emperor! What could you possibly do to me, Mortarion, Daemon Primarch of the Death Guard."
"Be warned, Mortarion, for I know you true name."
"Oh really? Then what is it?"
"Mortarion!!!"
"No! I am undone!"

Isn't his name Mortarion? What other names does he have?

Apparently the name that the Emperor originally intended for him according to the wikis I read through. I dunno.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Ha ha! Pitiful servant of the False Emperor! What could you possibly do to me, Mortarion, Daemon Primarch of the Death Guard."
"Be warned, Mortarion, for I know you true name."
"Oh really? Then what is it?"
"Mortarion!!!"
"No! I am undone!"

Isn't his name Mortarion? What other names does he have?

No, no, no. His Daemon name is totally different. It's Noiratrom and you have to trick him to say it to banish himself.


Jesus, Mister Mxyzptlk was a stupid fething villian

If it follows most other tropes, every living being has a true name. It's usually an archaic name, not one that most even know themselves. It gives you power over them, and keeps them from harming you. I good way to understand this is from the first Hellboy movie.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Ha ha! Pitiful servant of the False Emperor! What could you possibly do to me, Mortarion, Daemon Primarch of the Death Guard."
"Be warned, Mortarion, for I know you true name."
"Oh really? Then what is it?"
"Mortarion!!!"
"No! I am undone!"

Isn't his name Mortarion? What other names does he have?

Mortarion was, apparently, the name given to him by the notavampiremonsterthing that raised him when he was lost.

He has an actual name, known only to the Emperor/Grey Knights.

Mr Goulding has confirmed that this is pretty much a singular case -- ie there's not a book with the secret/true names of all the traitor Primarchs -- if only so they don't tell the same story 2/3/4/5+ etc etc times over.


I think it worth pointing out that Mortarion had already been fighting a fair few GKs too when he was banished.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=202&st=2880

The Grey Knights have the True Names of ALL the Primarchs? If afirmative, what about Angron in Armaggedon?

No, It doesn't work like that, at all...

I'm pretty sure it was explicitly stated in 'Mortarion's Heart' that he was a unique case. HE ALONE had a name that wasn't intended by the Emperor, but "Mortarion" was allowed to stand - but M didn't know anything about it.

It's the secrecy that gives his true name its power. I wish the neckbeards would stop trying to outsmart authors and editors with half-baked theories, comparing Warhmmer apples with Warhammer oranges... rolleyes.gif

(And if the other daemon primarchs DO have true names, the Grey Knights don't know them. Otherwise we'd just be telling the same story 8 more times, or whatever.)

On the other hand, why would a name which Mortarion never used be his true name? Just because the Emperor intended to call him something doesn't mean that that is his true name.

A true name should be something which reflects the true nature of the person. The emperor had no knowledge of his sons character, so how would he even know his true name? And even if he did, that name would have changed as Mortarion evolved from what he was at the beginning into what he is now.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
On the other hand, why would a name which Mortarion never used be his true name? Just because the Emperor intended to call him something doesn't mean that that is his true name.

A true name should be something which reflects the true nature of the person. The emperor had no knowledge of his sons character, so how would he even know his true name? And even if he did, that name would have changed as Mortarion evolved from what he was at the beginning into what he is now.

By that logic, the true name thing wouldn't work on Daemons either. Let's use a random example....say, Skulltaker. Skulltaker obviously isn't his true name, but it is the name he uses and what everyone knows him as. Would Skulltaker have any knowledge of what his "true name" is? Would it matter?

It's probably listed in the Grimoire of True Names, under 'Heralds, Khorne.'

And most often a True name is unpronounceable, often something like: sjkfivue nmalmcs or some other such non-sense the looks like your cat sat on your keyboard. So how could it "reflect" the true nature of the person.

Again, you guys are not understanding the purpose of a True Name. You're thinking too human like. "Your name is John, I know your True Name!". No. Your true name is not the name you're born with. It is a reflection of your soul. Knowing someones true name gives you control over them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

Read the part near the bottom about "In popular culture"

 nintura wrote:
Again, you guys are not understanding the purpose of a True Name. You're thinking too human like. "Your name is John, I know your True Name!". No. Your true name is not the name you're born with. It is a reflection of your soul. Knowing someones true name gives you control over them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

Read the part near the bottom about "In popular culture"

I've always quite enjoyed the way The Dresden Files does it.

I've always quite enjoyed The Dresden Files in general though.

Requizen wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Again, you guys are not understanding the purpose of a True Name. You're thinking too human like. "Your name is John, I know your True Name!". No. Your true name is not the name you're born with. It is a reflection of your soul. Knowing someones true name gives you control over them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

Read the part near the bottom about "In popular culture"

I've always quite enjoyed the way The Dresden Files does it.

I've always quite enjoyed The Dresden Files in general though.

Same!

Plus it has an awesome pen and paper RPG

Hmm, not familiar with it outside of it's name.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
On the other hand, why would a name which Mortarion never used be his true name? Just because the Emperor intended to call him something doesn't mean that that is his true name.
.

.. Might be related to how the Primarchs are born made.

So what is a true name then? Isn't it what you are born with when your parents name you?

Davor wrote:
So what is a true name then? Isn't it what you are born with when your parents name you?

Depends on the setting. In most respects, it's not so much a name (like Susan or Theresa) as it is a descriptor of who you are at your core, the word that describes your "soul". In many cases, that descriptive word just happens to be a name because people are complicated. Like, you know how sometimes there's a person and you're like "Oh, he's just being Jim, that's the way he is!", and there's no better way to describe him than "Jim" because he can't be boiled down to "outgoing" or any other one word descriptors. Similar for Demons and the like, but more powerful.

In much media, speaking something's True Name (especially Demons/Devils/magical creatures) means that you have made a connection to the core of their being and therefore have some sort of control over them. Like knowing their personal VPN and the login to get in.

With Mortarion, it seems like a bit of a stretch, since usually True Names for mortals change with time (because people change as they grow, while Demons generally do not change much over the eras). But The Emperor is a pretty powerful dude so maybe his Names are just that strongly tied to his son's legacies.

Jobberthirster Anngrath the Unbound's real name is Anngrath and it apparently hurts him when someone says it

I dont know why he doesnt use a different name

Davor wrote:
So what is a true name then? Isn't it what you are born with when your parents name you?

Read the posts above

But if you want an example, go watch the first Hellboy movie, towards the end. You'll see where the chains that hold him have his true name etched into them, and thus he cannot break them. Speaking someones true name is the same.

 nintura wrote:

Davor wrote:
So what is a true name then? Isn't it what you are born with when your parents name you?

Read the posts above

But if you want an example, go watch the first Hellboy movie, towards the end. You'll see where the chains that hold him have his true name etched into them, and thus he cannot break them. Speaking someones true name is the same.

Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark has a good example too. My favorite way to kill the final boss is learning his True Name and then ask him to kill himself. Easy, peasy.

Davor wrote:
So what is a true name then? Isn't it what you are born with when your parents name you?

Take your name.

Then think about all the experiences in your life. The joy, the pain, the heartbreak, the triumphs and the failures. Your first apartment, the first time you cooked and set your eyebrows on fire, your first love and the subsequent breakup...

That's the idea of the "true name", at least in the Dresden Files.

The idea of the true name, as mentioned, isn't new. But that's not a bad way to look at it. Simply knowing Dave the Daemonically Possessed's name isn't enough. You have to know Dave's name and his life. You effectively have to imbue the pronouncement of the name with that idea.

I presume the Tzangors don't have fantasy options... and I'll have to just hope they put out a box set suited for AoS?

Davor wrote:
So what is a true name then? Isn't it what you are born with when your parents name you?

It's much more than that, Davor.

From a few posts up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

Clockpunk wrote:
I presume the Tzangors don't have fantasy options... and I'll have to just hope they put out a box set suited for AoS?

There's a "Simple Weapon" option in the product description, but we haven't seen exactly how that plays out beyond the weapons looking similar to the AoS ones.

Since I'm a programmer by nature, I look at True Names as a pc and knowing their true names makes you the Admin

True Names are like your real name offline vs your username.
If we consider on-line to be a separate universe (in some ways it is) than our usernames are those that we pick or are chosen for use, just like ones name in the 40k universe
While our real names are often hidden to protect ourselves, like our True Name in the Warp.

For example, my user name is Galef. That is my name on this forum and it has no power over me.
However let's say my real name is Jon Alexander Pepperton (it's not, but let's go with that). If you know what my real name is, you may be able to steal my identity and that could severely hurt me in real life, especially if you match other personal info from me, like my birthday, ssn#, etc. Hacking my bank account, signing up for credit cards can financially destroy me.

True Names are kind like that.

-

When CSM get legion tactics, does that mean we no longer get to field special characters like Abaddon, Kharn, Ahriman etc. in detachments (formations, CADs etc.) using other legion tactics?

I ask because I have a terminator lord kit and Abaddon weapons ready to assemble as an Alpha Legion lord using Abaddon's rules. Should I hold off on doing that for now?

We still haven't got the faintest idea about the rules.

Davor wrote:
So what is a true name then?

You know how when you're little and you misbehave..

and then your mum yells your full name at you -- somehow entirely in capitals - possibly with " what exactly do you think you are doing... young man/lady" ( as appropriate) tacked on at the end..

.. and you kind of freeze ..


a more grimdark version of that.