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 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

Spoiler:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
I was just thinking that the bonus of rerollable saves really makes the power armor near invulnerable.

Reroll 1s and fail on 2 should come with a high price tag. The formations seem to be designed to stand on their own with little support form outside units. Whether they will, we shall see.

Though I think that the army can be quite good with using what units you need of the formations and focusing on the sorcerers strengths.

To be fair getting SOT that reroll 1s for failed saves will basically let you negate any troops choices they bring since it will take a wall of fire to bring down even 1 terminator.

As I was saying maybe rerollable 1s is a bit op and if you want it its fair to pay out the nose for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skerr wrote:

 Mantle wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Apparently the minimum is an exalted sorcerer and 3 units of tzaangors so not too expensive, max is an additional 6 units though for that rerollable 1 which might be good with that many guys but you're still rerolling for a 6 so not sure if it's really worth it.

In your example the rerollable save is just for the models in that formation correct?

Yes but its available for every formation, and with that particular formation I believe you can take 0-6 Tzzangors or Spawn

Right, saw that this formation still looks fun.

Personally the GC looks tight, allows for some decent upgades and additions after prerequisites are taken and I like being able to cast an extra power.

Though I thought cabal also let you reroll 1s to hit until your next psychic phase if you cast in the current round.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You meaning your unit.

That's right, Cabal gains Oracular Guidance: If a psyker from war cabal successfully manifests a psyker power, the psyker and any war cabal unit he is part of or has joined, can reroll failed to-hit rolls of 1 until the start of your next psychic phase.

That's just awesome. Along with the reroll of perils and warlord trait the WC is the way I am going to go.

 Skerr wrote:
That's just awesome. Along with the reroll of perils and warlord trait the WC is the way I am going to go.

I will second that motion. With rerolls of 1 on all attacks and saves, all you need to do is focus on beefing the units up a bit and you will have a very formidable force.

What I'm thinking right now is max everything out but have 3 regular sorcerers in termi armor and put them in front of the Thousand Sons. A bit expensive but basically gives the unit a giant shield for small arms fire.

Does anyone know if Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors generate warp charges like pink horrors? For example, do 11 Blue or Brimstones horrors give you 2 WC?

Thanks!

 997Turbo wrote:
Does anyone know if Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors generate warp charges like pink horrors? For example, do 11 Blue or Brimstones horrors give you 2 WC?

Thanks!

They do but i'm not sure what is the exact ratio.

 Skerr wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

Spoiler:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
I was just thinking that the bonus of rerollable saves really makes the power armor near invulnerable.

Reroll 1s and fail on 2 should come with a high price tag. The formations seem to be designed to stand on their own with little support form outside units. Whether they will, we shall see.

Though I think that the army can be quite good with using what units you need of the formations and focusing on the sorcerers strengths.

To be fair getting SOT that reroll 1s for failed saves will basically let you negate any troops choices they bring since it will take a wall of fire to bring down even 1 terminator.

As I was saying maybe rerollable 1s is a bit op and if you want it its fair to pay out the nose for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skerr wrote:

 Mantle wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Apparently the minimum is an exalted sorcerer and 3 units of tzaangors so not too expensive, max is an additional 6 units though for that rerollable 1 which might be good with that many guys but you're still rerolling for a 6 so not sure if it's really worth it.

In your example the rerollable save is just for the models in that formation correct?

Yes but its available for every formation, and with that particular formation I believe you can take 0-6 Tzzangors or Spawn

Right, saw that this formation still looks fun.

Personally the GC looks tight, allows for some decent upgades and additions after prerequisites are taken and I like being able to cast an extra power.

Though I thought cabal also let you reroll 1s to hit until your next psychic phase if you cast in the current round.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You meaning your unit.

That's right, Cabal gains Oracular Guidance: If a psyker from war cabal successfully manifests a psyker power, the psyker and any war cabal unit he is part of or has joined, can reroll failed to-hit rolls of 1 until the start of your next psychic phase.

That's just awesome. Along with the reroll of perils and warlord trait the WC is the way I am going to go.

But wait, don't forget every psyker in the Grand Coven--all your formations in primary detachment with psykers (ya know, about all)--psykers can manifest one more power. so 2-->3, Magnus 5-->6


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 997Turbo wrote:
Does anyone know if Blue Horrors and Brimstone Horrors generate warp charges like pink horrors? For example, do 11 Blue or Brimstones horrors give you 2 WC?

Thanks!

11-15 - 2
16-20 - 3
stops there

Say, can I bring a grand coven and meet my minimums. How then do I add in raptors or other units? A cad in addition to the WC?

 Skerr wrote:
Say I bring a grand coven and meet my minimums. How then do I add in raptors or other units? A cad in addition to the WC?

yes, they give an example of that as well when they lay out the Grand Coven, same with demons pandemoniam.

Was it confirmed if TS Sorcerers can take Spell Familiars?

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
Say I bring a grand coven and meet my minimums. How then do I add in raptors or other units? A cad in addition to the WC?

yes, they give an example of that as well when they lay out the Grand Coven, same with demons pandemoniam.

VeteranNoob, Did they change the Icon of Flame at all? I heard that MoT and Bolter was auto soul blaze now.

I thought a long time about how to make a fun, good list out of the new Wrath of Magnus Thousand Sons rules by using Traitor's Hate to circumvent the overpriced units to create a more interesting deathstar. You might see some neat combos using non-Fenris formations eventually. Here is my 1850 Hexfleet "Thousand Hates" list:



Detachment 1: Black Crusade Decurion
++Chaos Warband (all objective secured, hatred: imperium, free VotLW, +1 to invul if affected by a blessing)
-Chaos Lord, terminator armor, astral grimoire, combi-melta, chain fist, mark of tzeentch (joins terminators, makes unit fearless, moves his terminator unit 12" over terrain, rolls twice on boon table each turn)
-6x Chaos Terminators, mark of tzeentch, 2 chainfists, 2 power weapons, 2 power axes
-6x Chaos Space marines, mark of tzeentch
-6x Chaos Space marines, mark of tzeentch
-5x Warp Talons, mark of tzeentch
-1x Helbrute, 2 powerfists

++Heldrake Terror Pack
-2x Heldrakes, baleflamers (-1 Ld on enemies for telepathy spells and Doom of the Ser attacks, extra vector strikes on enemy units debuffed by telepathy spells)



Detachment 2: War Coven (cast telepathy on 3+)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 3, terminator armor, doom of the ser (badass daemon weapon), mark of tzeentch, spell familiar (join terminator unit, wreck anything non-vehicle in melee, roll sinisterum for re-roll all saves on unit or +2 I/A/T/S on self)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 3, terminator armor, force axe, mark of tzeentch, spell familiar, athenean scrolls (join terminator unit, cast invisibility on terminator unit on 4 dice with re-roll, succeed on 3+, if ANY two dice are the same the opponent cannot deny)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 3, jump pack, force axe, mark of tzeentch, spell familiar (join warp talon unit, cast force for 3++ on unit, throw psychic scream on a 3+)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 1, force axe, mark of tzeentch (sit in back with a chaos space marine unit, psychic scream anything that gets close)



There's a unit of 8 Tzeentch Terminators (including the characters) moving 12" over terrain, with a 2+/3++, possibly invisible and/or re-rolling armor saves, packing lots of chainfists and power weapons and a daemon weapon that will deal instant death wounds to wraithknights and deathstars. Psychic abilities and Heldrakes kill FMCs. Heldrakes and warp talons kill anything not in 2+ armor.

Does anyone know if we will get any KDK style mixing of daemon and non-daemon units? (i.e. no daemonic instability when taken in a thousand sons detachment)

 mrhappyface wrote:
Does anyone know if we will get any KDK style mixing of daemon and non-daemon units? (i.e. no daemonic instability when taken in a thousand sons detachment)

From what I have seen, Pink and Blue Horrors, they have daemonic instability not sure about anything else.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Does anyone know if we will get any KDK style mixing of daemon and non-daemon units? (i.e. no daemonic instability when taken in a thousand sons detachment)

From what I have seen, Pink and Blue Horrors, they have daemonic instability not sure about anything else.

I guess that's fair given the broken combinations you could make from a TDK list. :/

Can Magnus be taken as an HQ with the Chaos Daemons faction or only as CSM?

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Can Magnus be taken as an HQ with the Chaos Daemons faction or only as CSM?

He is a LoW not a HQ, but I believe you can take him from both CSM and Daemons.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Does anyone know if we will get any KDK style mixing of daemon and non-daemon units? (i.e. no daemonic instability when taken in a thousand sons detachment)

From what I have seen, Pink and Blue Horrors, they have daemonic instability not sure about anything else.

I guess that's fair given the broken combinations you could make from a TDK list. :/

You can still get some broken stuff the Hearld formation that gets you 1 extra warp charge seems amazing since your getting 2 warp charges for 35 points stick them in a min unit of pink horrors and you have a scary good warp charge battery.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

Yeah I cringed at this one. Horrible.

 Mymearan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

Yeah I cringed at this one. Horrible.

As much as I like the direction the company is taking 40k is kind of a hot mess right now for sure. Played a game of 40k with someone who has been out since 2001 and they just looked baffled at all the stuff we had to roll for constantly and how many rules and rules exceptions we had to keep consulting and cross referencing. While I think some things in AoS were taken a bit far they are closer with that system than they are with 40k in my opinion. Definitely hoping for a similar but less drastic simplification in 8th.

Iuchiban wrote:


The Tzeentch Warp table can be used if your Warlord has the Daemon of Tzeentch SR and your primary detachment has been chosen from the Chaos Daemon Codex, Curse of the Wulfen book or Wrath of Magnus book.

Spoiler:

2 - Choose at random one non-daemon Character. This chacarter suffers 1D3 Wounds withount saves of any kind. If slain, create a Chaos Spawn

3 - If any psiker manifest a power, the have to roll on the perils table with any double result

4 - Choose at random one Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Remove it from play. Return him to the battlefield via DS.

5 - All psikers manifest powers with 3+

6 - All flamer weapons gain the warpflame SR

7 - Each player may reroll up to 1D3 dice until end of turn. Each player rolls the D3 separetly.

8 - Psychic power cost is reduce by 1 (mínimum 1). If one psyker fails to manifest a power, automaticalli roll on the perils table.

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

10 - Via DS, deploy a unit of 10 Brimstone horrors

11 - Choose at random a non-Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Check LD. If failed, model is removed from play, replaced by a Herald of Tzeentch

12- Choose a Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Check Ld. If failed, model is removed from play. If passed, model is replaced by a Lord of Change.

I :Heart: this table so damn hard...

If the rumor that scatter die will be removed in 8th is true, it's quite possible you'll get your wish.

 nintura wrote:
If the rumor that scatter die will be removed in 8th is true, it's quite possible you'll get your wish.

I haven't heard that one. Will Drop Pods and other deep strikers just land where you put them? And blasts? And ordinance barrages?

IG will armored companies are back, baby! You heard it here first!

I dont know how they will work it out. It would be 100% speculation. It was from a couple pages back, I think.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

Yeah I cringed at this one. Horrible.

As much as I like the direction the company is taking 40k is kind of a hot mess right now for sure. Played a game of 40k with someone who has been out since 2001 and they just looked baffled at all the stuff we had to roll for constantly and how many rules and rules exceptions we had to keep consulting and cross referencing. While I think some things in AoS were taken a bit far they are closer with that system than they are with 40k in my opinion. Definitely hoping for a similar but less drastic simplification in 8th.

Why AoS? Why not 3rd edition, with the knowledge of what was wrong back then? Why AoS must be even in the radar for 40k?

 Virules wrote:
I thought a long time about how to make a fun, good list out of the new Wrath of Magnus Thousand Sons rules by using Traitor's Hate to circumvent the overpriced units to create a more interesting deathstar. You might see some neat combos using non-Fenris formations eventually. Here is my 1850 Hexfleet "Thousand Hates" list:



Detachment 1: Black Crusade Decurion
++Chaos Warband (all objective secured, hatred: imperium, free VotLW, +1 to invul if affected by a blessing)
-Chaos Lord, terminator armor, astral grimoire, combi-melta, chain fist, mark of tzeentch (joins terminators, makes unit fearless, moves his terminator unit 12" over terrain, rolls twice on boon table each turn)
-6x Chaos Terminators, mark of tzeentch, 2 chainfists, 2 power weapons, 2 power axes
-6x Chaos Space marines, mark of tzeentch
-6x Chaos Space marines, mark of tzeentch
-5x Warp Talons, mark of tzeentch
-1x Helbrute, 2 powerfists

++Heldrake Terror Pack
-2x Heldrakes, baleflamers (-1 Ld on enemies for telepathy spells and Doom of the Ser attacks, extra vector strikes on enemy units debuffed by telepathy spells)



Detachment 2: War Coven (cast telepathy on 3+)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 3, terminator armor, doom of the ser (badass daemon weapon), mark of tzeentch, spell familiar (join terminator unit, wreck anything non-vehicle in melee, roll sinisterum for re-roll all saves on unit or +2 I/A/T/S on self)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 3, terminator armor, force axe, mark of tzeentch, spell familiar, athenean scrolls (join terminator unit, cast invisibility on terminator unit on 4 dice with re-roll, succeed on 3+, if ANY two dice are the same the opponent cannot deny)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 3, jump pack, force axe, mark of tzeentch, spell familiar (join warp talon unit, cast force for 3++ on unit, throw psychic scream on a 3+)
-Chaos Sorcerer, psyker level 1, force axe, mark of tzeentch (sit in back with a chaos space marine unit, psychic scream anything that gets close)



There's a unit of 8 Tzeentch Terminators (including the characters) moving 12" over terrain, with a 2+/3++, possibly invisible and/or re-rolling armor saves, packing lots of chainfists and power weapons and a daemon weapon that will deal instant death wounds to wraithknights and deathstars. Psychic abilities and Heldrakes kill FMCs. Heldrakes and warp talons kill anything not in 2+ armor.

Nice man!

So from if I take a Grand Coven and work in a formation of 3 vindicators with a warpsmith, give the warpsmith Aura of Dark Glory and Mark of Tzeentch for 30 points, VOTLW for free and a psycher casts Prescience on him (as an example) will he count as getting the -1 invuln for a blessing? just curious.

They'll use whatever rules push the most supplemental products, such as as books, dice, psychic cards, etc. That's all that matters in the current ruleset.

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
Say I bring a grand coven and meet my minimums. How then do I add in raptors or other units? A cad in addition to the WC?

yes, they give an example of that as well when they lay out the Grand Coven, same with demons pandemoniam.

OK great. V-noob, really appreciate the review and clarification. You to Luchiban.

Its possible to combine black crusader with the legions rules?

 kronk wrote:

 nintura wrote:
If the rumor that scatter die will be removed in 8th is true, it's quite possible you'll get your wish.

I haven't heard that one. Will Drop Pods and other deep strikers just land where you put them? And blasts? And ordinance barrages?

IG will armored companies are back, baby! You heard it here first!

Pure speculation on my part, but in 4th ed, you just rolled to hit and placed the blast I could see that happening again.
For Deep Strikers, I would imagine you just roll on a modified mishap table: 1=dead, 2=back into reserves, 3+ you land where you want. So high risk vs high reward

As for the Tsons, it is sad that they will not be able to join Daemon units, but the the abuses would be much worse than anything KDK could do. So it's probably for the best
Speaking of abuses: I have started repainting half of my Pink Horrors blue.
I think the best way to do Pink/Blue horrors is to make half of them mostly Pink with some blue, and the other half mostly Blue with some Pink. that way you'd only need as many models as you need Blue Horrors.
For example: Lets say I start with 10 Pinks. normally that would mean I would also need 20 Blues, but with the paint scheme above, I only need 10 Blues as I can reuse the slain Pinks.
So those 10 Pinks suffer 3 casualties, creating a unit of 6 Blues. I would use 3 Blues and the 3 slain Pinks to make the new unit, ensuring that the mostly blue models create a "divide" between the units before they move apart.
So instead of needing 10 Pinks and 20 Blues, I only need 10 & 10 as I will reuse the Pinks mixed in with the Blues

The Brimstone horrors are another matter, but luckily they are only a 1:1 ration of models

-

icon of flame
All boltguns, combi bolers, heavy bolters, bolt pisols and inferno weapons carried by models with Mark of Tz in unit equipped with icon of flame gain soul blaze. (page 26)

 VeteranNoob wrote:
icon of flame
All boltguns, combi bolers, heavy bolters, bolt pisols and inferno weapons carried by models with Mark of Tz in unit equipped with icon of flame gain soul blaze. (page 26)

Can you clarify if the flamers have Soulblaze as an auto include. Frontline Gaming seemed to indicate that.

Also is there any adverse table that flamers have to roll in vs someones toughness that might increase or give them FnP? I read that on another forum and hoped that our flamers would not be subject to that.