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zamerion wrote:
Luchiban please, can you speak about the new warp table for daemon of tzeentch? (when use it) and something about daemon formations/decurion.

And has some horror access to daemonology?

Thanks a lot!

The Tzeentch Warp table can be used if your Warlord has the Daemon of Tzeentch SR and your primary detachment has been chosen from the Chaos Daemon Codex, Curse of the Wulfen book or Wrath of Magnus book.

2 - Choose at random one non-daemon Character. This chacarter suffers 1D3 Wounds withount saves of any kind. If slain, create a Chaos Spawn

3 - If any psiker manifest a power, the have to roll on the perils table with any double result

4 - Choose at random one Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Remove it from play. Return him to the battlefield via DS.

5 - All psikers manifest powers with 3+

6 - All flamer weapons gain the warpflame SR

7 - Each player may reroll up to 1D3 dice until end of turn. Each player rolls the D3 separetly.

8 - Psychic power cost is reduce by 1 (mínimum 1). If one psyker fails to manifest a power, automaticalli roll on the perils table.

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

10 - Via DS, deploy a unit of 10 Brimstone horrors

11 - Choose at random a non-Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Check LD. If failed, model is removed from play, replaced by a Herald of Tzeentch

12- Choose a Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Check Ld. If failed, model is removed from play. If passed, model is replaced by a Lord of Change.

Damn, some of those results are gonna be painful.

Thanks anyway Luchiban!

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Damn, some of those results are gonna be painful.

Thanks anyway Luchiban!

If you take the Daemon Incursion Detachment at least you can add or subtract 1 from your roll on the table.

Man I'm having the hardest time deciding in what to pick up first! I know I'm getting 2 boxes of rubicaez Ahriman, dice and the new paint from my local. I'm torn between getting Magnus, or a box of termies and exalted sorcs. Would get it all but limited only to about $300. >.< Pretty excited for this and can't wait to try the new rules in a Black Crusade detachment.

 Sersi wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Damn, some of those results are gonna be painful.

Thanks anyway Luchiban!

If you take the Daemon Incursion Detachment at least you can add or subtract 1 from your roll on the table.

But would you use the Tzeentch warpstorm table if you had to?
Personally I would be borderline not bothering with the new table.

Iuchiban wrote:

zamerion wrote:
Luchiban please, can you speak about the new warp table for daemon of tzeentch? (when use it) and something about daemon formations/decurion.

And has some horror access to daemonology?

Thanks a lot!

The Tzeentch Warp table can be used if your Warlord has the Daemon of Tzeentch SR and your primary detachment has been chosen from the Chaos Daemon Codex, Curse of the Wulfen book or Wrath of Magnus book.

2 - Choose at random one non-daemon Character. This chacarter suffers 1D3 Wounds withount saves of any kind. If slain, create a Chaos Spawn

3 - If any psiker manifest a power, the have to roll on the perils table with any double result

4 - Choose at random one Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Remove it from play. Return him to the battlefield via DS.

5 - All psikers manifest powers with 3+

6 - All flamer weapons gain the warpflame SR

7 - Each player may reroll up to 1D3 dice until end of turn. Each player rolls the D3 separetly.

8 - Psychic power cost is reduce by 1 (mínimum 1). If one psyker fails to manifest a power, automaticalli roll on the perils table.

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

10 - Via DS, deploy a unit of 10 Brimstone horrors

11 - Choose at random a non-Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Check LD. If failed, model is removed from play, replaced by a Herald of Tzeentch

12- Choose a Daemon of Tzeentch Character. Check Ld. If failed, model is removed from play. If passed, model is replaced by a Lord of Change.

A classic example of Games Workshop rule design. Opposed to a creative or innovative way to represent the rapidly changing and mutating nature of Tzeentch, we have a random table which removes a great degree of the players agency and frustrates battle plans and stratagem - making many choices outright worthless. And worst of all, it is lazy.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Damn, some of those results are gonna be painful.

Thanks anyway Luchiban!

If you take the Daemon Incursion Detachment at least you can add or subtract 1 from your roll on the table.

But would you use the Tzeentch warpstorm table if you had to?
Personally I would be borderline not bothering with the new table.

No. there are to many result that apply to you and your opponent; both bad and good.

 Sersi wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Damn, some of those results are gonna be painful.

Thanks anyway Luchiban!

If you take the Daemon Incursion Detachment at least you can add or subtract 1 from your roll on the table.

But would you use the Tzeentch warpstorm table if you had to?
Personally I would be borderline not bothering with the new table.

No. there are to many result that apply to you and your opponent; both bad and good.

Actually that is a great reason to use it. The ability to go up or down would allow you to make the best use of the Tzeentch table

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Iuchiban wrote:
Hi all, Iuchiban here.

I already own my copy of the book. I will be home in about half an hour.

Prepare your questions!!!!!!

Hi luchiban!

Can you tell me if a unit of Tzaangors can have mixed weaponry or do they all need to be equipped identically?

Thanks!

 Skerr wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Apparently the minimum is an exalted sorcerer and 3 units of tzaangors so not too expensive, max is an additional 6 units though for that rerollable 1 which might be good with that many guys but you're still rerolling for a 6 so not sure if it's really worth it.

 Mantle wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Apparently the minimum is an exalted sorcerer and 3 units of tzaangors so not too expensive, max is an additional 6 units though for that rerollable 1 which might be good with that many guys but you're still rerolling for a 6 so not sure if it's really worth it.

In your example the rerollable save is just for the models in that formation correct?

 luke1705 wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Damn, some of those results are gonna be painful.

Thanks anyway Luchiban!

If you take the Daemon Incursion Detachment at least you can add or subtract 1 from your roll on the table.

But would you use the Tzeentch warpstorm table if you had to?
Personally I would be borderline not bothering with the new table.

No. there are to many result that apply to you and your opponent; both bad and good.

Actually that is a great reason to use it. The ability to go up or down would allow you to make the best use of the Tzeentch table

This actually works. If you have no non-daemon of tzeentch characters in your army, you're always within 1 shift up or down of a decent result, no matter what you roll. Not sure if it is possible to take the detachment for the +/-1 and have no non-daemon characters though.

If an opponents character is removed and replaced with a spawn/herald/lord of change, who controls the new model? Or when it says random non-DoT character does it not include your opponents models? If it is the tzeentch player who gets control of the newly placed model then I'd do this on the table:

Roll 2: you stick and get D3 free hits against an enemy character, possibly getting you a free spawn.
3: either drop down to 2 for free hits or, if you want to, go up to 4 for deep strike for one of your characters.
4: go up to 5 or stick.
5: Stick or drop to 4.
6: Drop down to 5 or go up to 7 (but that gives opponent re-rolls as well so relies on luck to get more re-rolls/hope their re-rolls go badly).
7: Stick or move up to 8.
8: Stick or drop to 7.
9: Drop for easier casting, raise for free brimstone horrors.
10: Stick or +1 if you have no non-daemon of tzeentch characters.
11: Stick for opportunity to kill enemy character and replace them with a herald.
12: Drop down to 11.

I know it's been mentioned, but the requirements to get the save reroll of 1s is very unfortunate. They might as well not even include it for most of the formations. It could have been a very cool fluffy bonus.

The models look really good though.

I was just thinking that the bonus of rerollable saves really makes the power armor near invulnerable.

Reroll 1s and fail on 2 should come with a high price tag. The formations seem to be designed to stand on their own with little support form outside units. Whether they will, we shall see.

Though I think that the army can be quite good with using what units you need of the formations and focusing on the sorcerers strengths.

Btw, I was wondering what index chaotica: apocrypha is? Their article didn't really go into an details.

after looking at the sprues last week, getting my WD mag on Saturday, and now seeing the design video on Warhammer TV today, i am even more excited about Magnus...
the close-ups of the render in the video are amazing!!!
he has so many little cool details on the armor, skin, and wings...
so awesome to be getting a massive Demon Primarch in plastic
come on December!!!

cheers
jah

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

 Skerr wrote:

 Mantle wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Apparently the minimum is an exalted sorcerer and 3 units of tzaangors so not too expensive, max is an additional 6 units though for that rerollable 1 which might be good with that many guys but you're still rerolling for a 6 so not sure if it's really worth it.

In your example the rerollable save is just for the models in that formation correct?

Yes, it's of corse worth much more for the other units rerolling 1s on 3+/3++ or even 2+ on termites but then you're sinking an insane amount of points.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

Don't forget to roll for Warpflame if they take any wounds!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

Same thing happens in the Chaos Daemons codex already, except there are 2 results that do that (if you run monogod or duogod lists).
Then there are 2 results where you roll for units on the table to see if they get hit by a blast that then has to roll for scatter, then to wound and then saves.

 Skerr wrote:
I was just thinking that the bonus of rerollable saves really makes the power armor near invulnerable.

Reroll 1s and fail on 2 should come with a high price tag. The formations seem to be designed to stand on their own with little support form outside units. Whether they will, we shall see.

Though I think that the army can be quite good with using what units you need of the formations and focusing on the sorcerers strengths.

To be fair getting SOT that reroll 1s for failed saves will basically let you negate any troops choices they bring since it will take a wall of fire to bring down even 1 terminator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skerr wrote:

 Mantle wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Apparently the minimum is an exalted sorcerer and 3 units of tzaangors so not too expensive, max is an additional 6 units though for that rerollable 1 which might be good with that many guys but you're still rerolling for a 6 so not sure if it's really worth it.

In your example the rerollable save is just for the models in that formation correct?

Yes but its available for every formation, and with that particular formation I believe you can take 0-6 Tzzangors or Spawn

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits to see if he gets to roll for feel no pain to see you get to roll it will not die at the end of yours and to roll for warpflame and repeat the whole thing again.

Jesus 40K is a mess.[/quote

Emphasised text mine.

GW must think that Warpflame is actually a useful ability for Tzeentch (Rather than a disadvantage) because that warp table is terrible.

Right, saw that this formation still looks fun.

Personally the GC looks tight, allows for some decent upgades and additions after prerequisites are taken and I like being able to cast an extra power.

Though I thought cabal also let you reroll 1s to hit until your next psychic phase if you cast in the current round.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You meaning your unit.

 Skerr wrote:
Right, saw that this formation still looks fun.

Personally the GC looks tight, allows for some decent upgrades and additions after prerequisites are taken and I like being able to cast an extra power.

Though I thought cabal also let you reroll 1s to hit until your next psychic phase if you cast in the current round.

I would agree, that there is wiggle room there. As for the rerolling 1s I have seen two different versions of this, the first being "you reroll 1s with with attacks" and "you reroll 1s for psychic attacks" so i'm not sure there.

Its not just fun its down right good. Since you can easily take 4 units of Tzzangors and 4 units of spawn and use "Telekine Dome" to get a 3++ on everything.

 Roknar wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits to see if he gets to roll for feel no pain to see you get to roll it will not die at the end of yours and to roll for warpflame and repeat the whole thing again.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

Emphasised text mine.

My point stands.

I hope 8th nukes everything for a complete back-to-basics reset.

 Skerr wrote:

Spoiler:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Skerr wrote:
I was just thinking that the bonus of rerollable saves really makes the power armor near invulnerable.

Reroll 1s and fail on 2 should come with a high price tag. The formations seem to be designed to stand on their own with little support form outside units. Whether they will, we shall see.

Though I think that the army can be quite good with using what units you need of the formations and focusing on the sorcerers strengths.

To be fair getting SOT that reroll 1s for failed saves will basically let you negate any troops choices they bring since it will take a wall of fire to bring down even 1 terminator.

As I was saying maybe rerollable 1s is a bit op and if you want it its fair to pay out the nose for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skerr wrote:

 Mantle wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
any info on the daemon formations? And tzeentch warpstorm table?

To add to this, does anyone know about Tzaangors? Are they just like tzeentch specific cultists like plague zombies are?

Guardsman stat line except WS/T 4 and 6++ and are NOT Daemon.

I heard you can take up to 30 and are about 7 points each. With 3 attacks on the charge their formation will be killer if you can afford the points. The ability to run and charge is awesome board control. Plus 1 to Str if they charge 9 in or more. Great manageable cannon fodder that will look great on the table. Great filler combat wise and thematically for the wizards and their golems.

Apparently the minimum is an exalted sorcerer and 3 units of tzaangors so not too expensive, max is an additional 6 units though for that rerollable 1 which might be good with that many guys but you're still rerolling for a 6 so not sure if it's really worth it.

In your example the rerollable save is just for the models in that formation correct?

Yes but its available for every formation, and with that particular formation I believe you can take 0-6 Tzzangors or Spawn

Right, saw that this formation still looks fun.

Personally the GC looks tight, allows for some decent upgades and additions after prerequisites are taken and I like being able to cast an extra power.

Though I thought cabal also let you reroll 1s to hit until your next psychic phase if you cast in the current round.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You meaning your unit.

That's right, Cabal gains Oracular Guidance: If a psyker from war cabal successfully manifests a psyker power, the psyker and any war cabal unit he is part of or has joined, can reroll failed to-hit rolls of 1 until the start of your next psychic phase.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

9 - Roll a D6 for every unit on the battlefield. With a result of 1 or 2, D6 hits, S4, AP4, Warpflames

Roll on this chart to see if you roll for every unit on the table to see if you roll an amount of hits to see if you can roll to wound with those hits to see if your opponent gets to roll armour saves on those hits.

Jesus 40K is a mess.

And if my unit gets hit and fails any saves I get to roll to see what psychic power my new unit that gets created generates!