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Well you can still take any other csm formation or cad to use the rest of the dex and forgeworld. It's not like they don't exist.

Question.

Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?

You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Question.

Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?

You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.

Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.

N/A

It's definitely not competitive.

If you think that's okay, that's okay.

Well to be fair, most of that ap3 is S4 and doesn't have ignore cover. The heldrake torrent is still a LOT better. It's a good auxiliary choice for the cost too. Not as cheap as a singular spawn but it packs a lot more punch and most people seem to include one in their list anyway.
If you have the points and are using the daemon weapon though, you'd want the traitors hate formation. Combined with some of the formation bonus or psychic rerolls one (exalted)sorcerer could take out a wraithknight if you can get it down to leadership 8.

So, do we know if they'll be releasing Blues and Brimstones in their own boxes?

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Ok so looking at the formations and what I can spend this holiday season:

Spoiler:

Grand Coven:
War Cabal:
-Exalted Sorcerer
-1 Unit of 10 Rubrics (Soulreaper/Icon/Bolters/AspSor)
-2 Unit of 5 Rubrics (5xFlamers)
-1 Unit of 4 Scarab Occult (Soulreaper/Helfyre)
-1 Terminator Sorcerer
Tzaangor Warherd:
-Exalted Sorcerer
-3 Units of 10 Tzaangor
Lord of the Legion:
-Exalted Sorcerer

I think that makes a decent ~1850/2000 point list. Not very competitive, but that's okay. What do you people think?

I think this needs to be posted in the 40k section for army lists and not cluttering up the news and rumors thread. Please stop talking about your list

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Question.

Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?

You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.

Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.

Technically the Squadrons were errata'd in with Traitor's Hate so....

Can we see what the new Tzeentch Discipline table looks like by any chance? Like, which numbers roll for what? :>

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Question.

Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?

You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.

Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.

I don't really see the attraction of a trilas predator since FW gave us deimos vindicator laser destroyers.
They cost 10 points less and all their lascannons are twinlinked as opposed to the main gun on preds. Plus they have built in pseudo tank hunter with ordnance. for the low low cost of risking a hullpoint on a 1 afterwards.

The only thing you're missing out on is monster hunter, but you're likely wounding those on 2+ anyway. I'd rather have twinlinked guns to hit them in the first place.

 Roknar wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Question.

Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?

You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.

Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.

I don't really see the attraction of a trilas predator since FW gave us deimos vindicator laser destroyers.
They cost 10 points less and all their lascannons are twinlinked as opposed to the main gun on preds. Plus they have built in pseudo tank hunter with ordnance. for the low low cost of risking a hullpoint on a 1 afterwards.

The only thing you're missing out on is monster hunter, but you're likely wounding those on 2+ anyway. I'd rather have twinlinked guns to hit them in the first place.

I don't think they can be used in a Grand Coven though.

 Roknar wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Question.

Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?

You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.

Agreed. And the book probably allows for squadrons of those tanks, so Monster Hunters and Tank Hunters will make it even better, if you want.

I don't really see the attraction of a trilas predator since FW gave us deimos vindicator laser destroyers.
They cost 10 points less and all their lascannons are twinlinked as opposed to the main gun on preds. Plus they have built in pseudo tank hunter with ordnance. for the low low cost of risking a hullpoint on a 1 afterwards.

The only thing you're missing out on is monster hunter, but you're likely wounding those on 2+ anyway. I'd rather have twinlinked guns to hit them in the first place.

Well, the first attractive point is the fact you can take a Tri-Las predator in meta-detachment but you can't take a Deimos.

Ah, I thought tzeetnch only got daemon engines. After another look at their formations, yea, makes more sense to take a trilas then considering they have so little anti tank.

 Kirasu wrote:
Sorta disappointing that the detachment is basically just all the new models forced on you. Yet you can take demon engines but no warsmith or vehicles but no CSM? (Who pilots them then?). They could have made this a bit more interesting rather than be so dogmatic about restricting it heavily to new kits.

Not sure what you mean, Rubrics can take Rhinos as DT.
Scarab Termies can take Land Raider.
Taking them separate is just there.
Not only that, but if for some reason you wanted to take CSM, they would also have their DT option , you just follow the list for them becoming Thousand Sons CSM.

As a sidenote, FW/GW really need to do something about this incompatibility. It's always been irritating to point but especially now with all these formations, both loyalists and traitors have a really hard time to shoehorn FW into their lists. We really need more unit swaps like the cataphractii and kytans.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Question.

Why do people get excited over taking HELDRAKE of all things in the 1ksons detachment as auxiliary?

You got so much Ap3 already in your infantry. You really don't care for more.
Honestly even a triplas predator is more attractive, gives some much needed high S and Ap2 shots.

BEcause a Helldrake dominiates the board more than some AP2.
Helldrake wrecks Eldar bikes, wrecks Nid swarms, ork swarms, guard swarms, and now GSC swarms.

 BloodGrin wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Sorta disappointing that the detachment is basically just all the new models forced on you. Yet you can take demon engines but no warsmith or vehicles but no CSM? (Who pilots them then?). They could have made this a bit more interesting rather than be so dogmatic about restricting it heavily to new kits.

Not sure what you mean, Rubrics can take Rhinos as DT.
Scarab Termies can take Land Raider.
Taking them separate is just there.
Not only that, but if for some reason you wanted to take CSM, they would also have their DT option , you just follow the list for them becoming Thousand Sons CSM.

Apparently they have two auxiliaries covering all of our base dex vehicles, so you don't even need DTs to get them.
For everything else though you need a CAD or traitor's hate, which sucks because you can't use the new units and vice versa (... or can you? Still nobody that has answered this XD). Well unless you keep the detachments small of course, which is kinda hard.

My impression so far is that with TSons you either go full ham wrath of magnus with daemons mixed in or you don't use Wrath of magnus at all aside from maybe an allied detachment of WC batteries and relics.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So, do we know if they'll be releasing Blues and Brimstones in their own boxes?

I hope so. If you've seen them from the Silver Tower set, you'll know how small they are. A box that contains 10 Blues & 10 Brimstones + 20 bases would be the same amount of plastic as the currently box of 10 Pinks + all their extras like icons and instruments. We know Blues and Brimstones don't have those extras, so probably less plastic is needed

Actually, not that I think about it, how do Warp Spiders interact with Vector Strike?

Nurglitch wrote:
Actually, not that I think about it, how do Warp Spiders interact with Vector Strike?

Vector Strike isn't shooting. It's more like a CC attack, I think.

I have a question on the exact wording of the Blessing of Tzeentch rule. Does the +1 invuln save bonus apply only to the targeted unit, or will it apply to any unit that benefits from a blessing even if they are not targeted? For example, would sinistrum power armor of hatred cause a 12" radius bubble of +1 to invuln saves? Obviously it's not a great power by itself, but could be a way to spread the love around more easily if you aim for something like warp fate and don't get it.

Roknar wrote:As a sidenote, FW/GW really need to do something about this incompatibility. It's always been irritating to point but especially now with all these formations, both loyalists and traitors have a really hard time to shoehorn FW into their lists. We really need more unit swaps like the cataphractii and kytans.

Agreed, if you want FW, you'd have to take a TS CAD to get them. There should be a side formation that covers the FW stuff

Galef wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So, do we know if they'll be releasing Blues and Brimstones in their own boxes?

I hope so. If you've seen them from the Silver Tower set, you'll know how small they are. A box that contains 10 Blues & 10 Brimstones + 20 bases would be the same amount of plastic as the currently box of 10 Pinks + all their extras like icons and instruments. We know Blues and Brimstones don't have those extras, so probably less plastic is needed

A box of 10 Blues and 10 Brimstone pairs for ~30$ would be great

Nurglitch wrote:
Actually, not that I think about it, how do Warp Spiders interact with Vector Strike?

Vector strike happens in the movement phase.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

A box of 10 Blues and 10 Brimstone pairs for ~30$ would be great

~$30 for 10 & 10 would be great, but you'd still need 2 boxes for each box of Pinks

My strategy is to have 11 PINK w/ blue and 11 BLUE w/ pink. Each time a Pink dies, I use reuse it + 1 Blue to represent the 2 Blues. No sense in those models sitting in the dead-pile when they can keep fighting.

 Galef wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

A box of 10 Blues and 10 Brimstone pairs for ~30$ would be great

~$30 for 10 & 10 would be great, but you'd still need 2 boxes for each box of Pinks

My strategy is to have 11 PINK w/ blue and 11 BLUE w/ pink. Each time a Pink dies, I use reuse it + 1 Blue to represent the 2 Blues. No sense in those models sitting in the dead-pile when they can keep fighting.

That's a great idea actually, would be interesting to see how the color scheme comes out, would fit the theme really well too imo

I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but how are you supposed to run the horrors? Combined arms only(as daemon)?

 Bulldogging wrote:
I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but how are you supposed to run the horrors? Combined arms only(as daemon)?

You run them the same way you do now, but with tons of Blue and Brimstone horrors on the side lines ready to spawn.
Most players took 2x 11 Horrors in a CAD and I don't see that changing.

However, I suspect players who were running the Warpflame Host with many units of 11 Pink Horrors may choose to cut that number in half and re-paint some Pinks as Blues.
Blue & Brimstone Horrors will not benefit from Detachment bonuses (until FAQ'd) so I think players will still rely on Pinks, but you need less of thanks to the split rule

-

Anybody know if the daemon formations can be used as part of the daemonic incursion detach?

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Anybody know if the daemon formations can be used as part of the daemonic incursion detach?

Let's nip this one in the bud early.