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From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.

 Galef wrote:

 Bulldogging wrote:
I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but how are you supposed to run the horrors? Combined arms only(as daemon)?

You run them the same way you do now, but with tons of Blue and Brimstone horrors on the side lines ready to spawn.
Most players took 2x 11 Horrors in a CAD and I don't see that changing.

However, I suspect players who were running the Warpflame Host with many units of 11 Pink Horrors may choose to cut that number in half and re-paint some Pinks as Blues.
Blue & Brimstone Horrors will not benefit from Detachment bonuses (until FAQ'd) so I think players will still rely on Pinks, but you need less of thanks to the split rule

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Thanks. I was just hoping there was a formation that could be used in the thousand son "decurion" since it was in this book.

So, it's basically just a random unit update for an army that isn't the main focus of the book its in.

 buddha wrote:
From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.

What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.

Requizen wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Anybody know if the daemon formations can be used as part of the daemonic incursion detach?

Let's nip this one in the bud early.

I fail to see how this is "nipping it in the bud" since it is entirely possible for Wrath of Magnus to state: "The following Daemon Formations can be taken as Auxiliaries for the Incursion Detachment from the Curse of the Wulfen book".
That would surely count as being "explicitly stated otherwise"

This is the question that was asked: Does the book allow the Daemon formations to be taken in an Incursion Detachment?

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Requizen wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Anybody know if the daemon formations can be used as part of the daemonic incursion detach?

Let's nip this one in the bud early.

So they could be if they are given permission. You really contributed nothing with that post.

 Galef wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Anybody know if the daemon formations can be used as part of the daemonic incursion detach?

Let's nip this one in the bud early.

Spoiler:

I fail to see how this is "nipping it in the bud" since it is entirely possible for Wrath of Magnus to state: "The following Daemon Formations can be taken as Auxiliaries for the Incursion Detachment from the Curse of the Wulfen book".
That would surely count as being "explicitly stated otherwise"

This is the question that was asked: Does the book allow the Daemon formations to be taken in an Incursion Detachment?

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Sure it's possible, but there has never been an instance of GW adding new formations to old detachments, and there is no indication that this would be any different.

What I want to know is can you have a Thousand Sons Black Legion Army. As far as I can tell there is nothing stopping an army from being both, and if so does that mean that you can use Artifact from both books?

Requizen wrote:

Sure it's possible, but there has never been an instance of GW adding new formations to old detachments, and there is no indication that this would be any different.

Forge World has done it for the Eldar Warhost detachment. You can take a Hornet Swarm formation as an Aux for them. And there is plenty of precedent for GW copying FW

The Pandemoniad of Tzeencth (this WoM unique demon army) is a special type of detachment that can be included in any battle forged army. Unlike the detachment shown in Warhammer 40,000 the rules it has a force organization chart who slots are a combination of specific formation and Arnie list entries instead of battlefield roles. However it still has compulsory an optional elements as well as restrictions and command benefit just like any other detachment.

Although units cannot normally belong to more than one detachment units from a formation that is part of a Pandemoniad of Tzeencth are an exception. They count as part of both their formation and the detachment and have all associated command benefits and special rules. If you're warlord is part of the formation or an army list entry that makes up part of a Pandemoniad that entire Pandemoniad is your primary detachment.
Page 60. Not sure if this helps.

Wow. Thanks VeteranNoob. I think that does answer it. So the Pandemoniad of Tzeencth is a detachment that can be included in any other detachment and share that detachments benefits.

So it would not count as an AUX for the Incursion, but can be included and gains Daemonic Corruption. If I understand correctly

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
What I want to know is can you have a Thousand Sons Black Legion Army. As far as I can tell there is nothing stopping an army from being both, and if so does that mean that you can use Artifact from both books?

You might want to ask that in YMDC, because there was quite an argument about whether or not that would work with traitors hate and more specifically its sub formations.
But this is even more of a can of worms.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.

What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.

A formation that you may as well be playing Apocalypse for because lol, 3 of them required.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.

What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.

I would also like to know that. So far I have NOTHING on it's contents beyond what was in the community site "leak".

 Galef wrote:
Wow. Thanks VeteranNoob. I think that does answer it. So the Pandemoniad of Tzeencth is a detachment that can be included in any other detachment and share that detachments benefits.

So it would not count as an AUX for the Incursion, but can be included and gains Daemonic Corruption. If I understand correctly

No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
From the traitor legion rumors is anyone else intrigued the lord of skulls is one of the few units to get an updated datasheet. Hopefully a massive point reduction to make the killer lawnmower usable.

What rumors are you talking about specifically? Because the only time I heard rumors about the lord of skulls was when Traitor's Hate was coming up, and all that did was add it to the book with a formation with no change to the unit whatsoever.

A formation that you may as well be playing Apocalypse for because lol, 3 of them required.

I mean, you could also use Kytans and be under 1850 if you were in the mood to lose in a non-apoc game.

 Verviedi wrote:
So I'm guessing we'll see a lot of lists that look like this in the future. Forgive me if I'm wrong and have no clue how Chaos works.

THOUSAND SON MFD
War Cabal
Core:
Exalted Sorceror
Exalted Sorceror
Min Rubric Marines
Min Terminators

Aux:
Daemon Engine with Heldrake To Infinity

To start, yes. This will be the most basic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kirasu wrote:
Sorta disappointing that the detachment is basically just all the new models forced on you. Yet you can take demon engines but no warsmith or vehicles but no CSM? (Who pilots them then?). They could have made this a bit more interesting rather than be so dogmatic about restricting it heavily to new kits.

You could cut off the lower half a tzaangor and kit the top half to poke out of the hatch. I read that sorcerer get loyalty from them by treating them well. That was a joke but I would like to see it.

 Galef wrote:
Wow. Thanks VeteranNoob. I think that does answer it. So the Pandemoniad of Tzeencth is a detachment that can be included in any other detachment and share that detachments benefits.

So it would not count as an AUX for the Incursion, but can be included and gains Daemonic Corruption. If I understand correctly

Same with the TS Grand Coven it specifically states this, I quoted, wel,speech to text quoted. Hope that helps.

 andysonic1 wrote:
No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.

Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.

But I don't have THate handy so sounds like you may be talking about something different?

 Verviedi wrote:
So I'm guessing we'll see a lot of lists that look like this in the future. Forgive me if I'm wrong and have no clue how Chaos works.

THOUSAND SON MFD
War Cabal
Core:
Exalted Sorceror
Exalted Sorceror
Min Rubric Marines
Min Terminators

Aux:
Daemon Engine with Heldrake To Infinity

Well at least now I can buy a Stormcloud attack Faith and Heresy box(or three) and not have to bother swapping the Helldrake for something else.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
But I don't have THate handy so sounds like you may be talking about something different?

Senpai please notice me (´・ω・)っ

 Galef wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.

Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.

I'm not sure I follow...

Are you saying, in a regular Incursion list (say, the Warpflame host), I can add Magnus in that Command slot?

 Galef wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.

Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.

No. Daemons inside the Pandemoniad of Tzeentch (from Wrath of Magnus) have the special rules from the PoT detachment. Daemons inside the Daemonic Incursion (from Curse of the Wulfen) have the special rules from the DI detachment. You can never belong to both, and therefore can never benefit from both benefits.

Requizen wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
No, you read it incorrectly. It can be included in any battle forged army, not be included in other detachments. It is its own detachment. However, they are deamons and thus, if Demonic Corruption says it benefits units outside of the detachment, they should count.

Ok, gotcha. So units from the WoM Deamon detachment can counts as those in an Incursion.

No. Daemons inside the Pandemoniad of Tzeentch (from Wrath of Magnus) have the special rules from the PoT detachment. Daemons inside the Daemonic Incursion (from Curse of the Wulfen) have the special rules from the DI detachment. You can never belong to both, and therefore can never benefit from both benefits.

This. This is how it has been for every detachment released to date. No double dipping.

 Roknar wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
What I want to know is can you have a Thousand Sons Black Legion Army. As far as I can tell there is nothing stopping an army from being both, and if so does that mean that you can use Artifact from both books?

You might want to ask that in YMDC, because there was quite an argument about whether or not that would work with traitors hate and more specifically its sub formations.
But this is even more of a can of worms.

GW really needs to get their gak together, why should someone need a PhD to figure this stuff out?

Wait a second, wait a second.

Tell me if I'm reading this right:

Are we at a point where Thousand Sons armies can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait a second, wait a second.

Tell me if I'm reading this right:

Are we at a point where Thousand Sons armies can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day?

Hasn't it been around 2 years already since GW chucked out all pretense of reasonable force selection?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait a second, wait a second.

Tell me if I'm reading this right:

Are we at a point where Thousand Sons armies can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day?

Sure... what would be the cheapest TS detachment?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait a second, wait a second.

Tell me if I'm reading this right:

Are we at a point where Thousand Sons armies can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day?

KDK has been able to do this for over a year.

No one does this though, since defilers are dumb. I doubt we'll see more use for them in WoM or TL.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait a second, wait a second.

Tell me if I'm reading this right:

Are we at a point where Thousand Sons armies can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day?

It's 7th edition, son. Tau can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day.

 Thud wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wait a second, wait a second.

Tell me if I'm reading this right:

Are we at a point where Thousand Sons armies can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day?

It's 7th edition, son. Tau can take more Defilers than 3.5 Iron Warriors could back in the day.

ahHA!! Its funny cuz its truuue!