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Sorry, what other ship?

 Manchu wrote:
Sorry, what other ship?

There is the ship they are shown traveling to the planet on and when they arrive they show them finding a somewhat recently crashed Engineer ship. In the trailer you can see the area around the crashed ship is still, to use the scientific term, smushed. Even the foliage hasn't started growing back yet so the ship couldn't have been there to long.

Oh, are you saying that Noomi and David are responsible for the wheat?

And that all the wheat grew after the colonists arrived in-system and scanned the planet from space but before they landed?

 Manchu wrote:
Oh, are you saying that Noomi and David are responsible for the wheat?

That wasn't what was said, and I'm betting you know that so at this point it appears you are just being facetious.

 Manchu wrote:
And that all the wheat grew after the colonists arrived in-system and scanned the planet from space but before they landed?

Who said it was scanned after they were in the system? You are making a lot of illogical leaps here based on what little has been discussed because...? Fun? Obstinance? Discussing that they might have information about the planet they are colonizing doesn't say anything about when or how, and is just a guess, though again I'm pretty sure you already know this but for some reason are trying to make more out of it than is there.

Also assuming you have seen Alien, Aliens, and Prometheus it isn't really a leap to assume that someone, or something, higher up knows what is there and/or has altered information about the area.

Easy now. I am just trying to figure out how these guys did the appropriate due diligence and yet still didn't know about the wheat, the lack of animal life, the microtoxicology. Because just based on the trailers, I agree with Pacific - it really seems like they aren't ready to walk around on that planet sans some kind of containment suit and quarantine procedures. W-Y (or equivalent evil corp) falsifying data wouldn't matter because, after such a long trip, they would of course take extensive pre-landing scans. So are their scanners broken? Were they forced to land? Those possibilities still don't explain the absence of suits. So are they just letting excitement get the better of them?

If so, we're back to Prometheus-type issues.

The planet could have already been tagged as suitable/safe for humans by probes or survey teams ahead of the Covenant's arrival. Sending a honkingly massive colony ship out into the galaxy in the hope they stumble across a suitable world seems a bit daft to me. Once they arrive there own orbital scans and landers could easily give the Covenant's crew enough information to confirm it was safe. When the entire surface seems to be covered in terrestrial plant life a small amount of wheat could easily be missed. Especially if the odd thing about it is not that its there in the first place, but that there's a field of it. Implying that they are not the first ones there.
Of course the film is probably just operating on hollywood science. So as long as there is a breathable atmosphere there's no need for sealed suits

Right - Prometheus-type issues ...

Going only by the prologue, there are less than twenty colonists in this group. Given such a small number, I'd guess they are there to test the planet's habitability before W-Y or whoever send the real population. Yes absolutely, the planet would have had to have been deemed suitable for human habitation before undertaking the long, dangerous, expensive trip. But like I said, the only reason not to scan the planet before landing is ... broken scanners. If the scanners do work and cannot ID wheat (much less the total absence of complex animal life) they have no chance of IDing harmful microfauna. If the scanners are broken, all the more reason not to galivant in an alien environment willy-nilly.

Remember, this whole question of scanners only comes up because we already know the characters unknowingly contaminate themselves with some kind of alien spores. The issue isn't scanners per se but whether this is yet another movie where people who should be smart act dumb so the story can happen.

 Manchu wrote:
Right - Prometheus-type issues ...

Going only by the prologue, there are less than twenty colonists in this group. Given such a small number, I'd guess they are there to test the planet's habitability before W-Y or whoever send the real population. Yes absolutely, the planet would have had to have been deemed suitable for human habitation before undertaking the long, dangerous, expensive trip. But like I said, the only reason not to scan the planet before landing is ... broken scanners. If the scanners do work and cannot ID wheat (much less the total absence of complex animal life) they have no chance of IDing harmful microfauna. If the scanners are broken, all the more reason not to galivant in an alien environment willy-nilly.

Remember, this whole question of scanners only comes up because we already know the characters unknowingly contaminate themselves with some kind of alien spores. The issue isn't scanners per se but whether this is yet another movie where people who should be smart act dumb so the story can happen.

I thought it mentioned or at least heavily implied in the prologue that the ship has some 500 couples or some such, and that the ones we meet are, like every Star Trek series ever, the "important" people who crew the bridge and serve vital roles during transport.

In trying to verify that, I came across this:

Deep into their mission, the crew is awakened from their cryogenic sleep pods by a mysterious distress signal that is human in origin. That signal leads them to another planet, a paradise that looks far more appealing than their initial destination.

Oh dear ...

http://www.slashfilm.com/alien-covenant-characters-plot/

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Right - Prometheus-type issues ...

Going only by the prologue, there are less than twenty colonists in this group. Given such a small number, I'd guess they are there to test the planet's habitability before W-Y or whoever send the real population. Yes absolutely, the planet would have had to have been deemed suitable for human habitation before undertaking the long, dangerous, expensive trip. But like I said, the only reason not to scan the planet before landing is ... broken scanners. If the scanners do work and cannot ID wheat (much less the total absence of complex animal life) they have no chance of IDing harmful microfauna. If the scanners are broken, all the more reason not to galivant in an alien environment willy-nilly.

Remember, this whole question of scanners only comes up because we already know the characters unknowingly contaminate themselves with some kind of alien spores. The issue isn't scanners per se but whether this is yet another movie where people who should be smart act dumb so the story can happen.

I thought it mentioned or at least heavily implied in the prologue that the ship has some 500 couples or some such, and that the ones we meet are, like every Star Trek series ever, the "important" people who crew the bridge and serve vital roles during transport.

It's a pretty enormous ship. If they've got 500 couples, my guess is they're in cryosleep until living quarters and such are set up. You don't just dump 1000 people on a strange planet and say 'build everything'.

 Manchu wrote:
In trying to verify that, I came across this:

Deep into their mission, the crew is awakened from their cryogenic sleep pods by a mysterious distress signal that is human in origin. That signal leads them to another planet, a paradise that looks far more appealing than their initial destination.

Oh dear ...

http://www.slashfilm.com/alien-covenant-characters-plot/

*sigh* So its really looking like Alien the remix. At least its going to look good if nothing else.

It isn't a remake?? That trailer looks exactly like a trailer for an Alien remake would look like. Another pseudo remake like episode 7 then

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
It isn't a remake?? That trailer looks exactly like a trailer for an Alien remake would look like. Another pseudo remake like episode 7 then

No, it's a sequel to Prometheus and a prequel to Alien.

 Manchu wrote:
In trying to verify that, I came across this:

Deep into their mission, the crew is awakened from their cryogenic sleep pods by a mysterious distress signal that is human in origin. That signal leads them to another planet, a paradise that looks far more appealing than their initial destination.

Oh dear ...

http://www.slashfilm.com/alien-covenant-characters-plot/

Well then I guess they decided the stupid option was the way to go, though considering the awful choices (behind the scenes) in Prometheus I suppose that shouldn't be a surprise.

 Manchu wrote:
Controversial statement! AvP2 is a a lot, lot dumber than Prometheus. But Prometheus is ultimately more irritating.

Gosh ... am I really on the verge of defending Prometheus?

Yes

I'd disagree that AvP 2 was "dumber." AvP 2 is well put as "edgelord." AvP 2 wasn't dumb. It was just bad. Cliche driven human characters with too much screen time, aliens that took their whole "rape" theme to a disgusting end, and worst of all the action scenes were constantly shrouded in way too little gamma that makes it impossible at times to make out what is happening even in an already dark theater.

The sad part is that I liked the model of AvP 2 better than AvP. Poor hapless humans caught between warring enemies and struggling to survive without the straight out dumb gimicks of the first film (Antarctica? Pyramids? Ancient Aliens? Come on screen writers your better than this). The humans just bounced from being too dumb to live or too genre savvy, so the film ended up very "by the motions" while the Predator and Alien fights just moved haplessly from set piece to set piece.

I've got mixed feelings on the CGI, i'm rarely a fan of it. In this case it actually does look pretty good. But plenty of movies can look pretty and still suck. I'm still not totally convinced by the cast. I thought some of the crew in Prometheus were a joke especially Fifield or whatever the hell his name was.

But i'm going to go see it no doubt, because there really isn't anything else to see anytime soon.. cept maybe Ghost in the Shell...but that one is dodgy as hell.

There were a couple of shots in the trailer that were extremely brief that did look interesting. I had to pause the trailer a couple times and rewind to get a decent look. I think the movie will be more interesting than the trailer. But i'm not going in expecting anything great, I know better nowadays.

However AVP and AVP 2 are both the definition of bad abomination type movies, i'd rather watch the descent.

Xenomorphs have always had that copy the host traits thing. The original concepts for the alien had it with a human skull face.

That was just part of Giger's design.

 Thargrim wrote:
I've got mixed feelings on the CGI, i'm rarely a fan of it. In this case it actually does look pretty good. But plenty of movies can look pretty and still suck.

Definitely thought the prosthetics and suits of Aliens were far superior to the CGI of Alien 3. This looks like a fair bit of CGI from the trailer but hopefully they will still stick to rubber masks for the more 'intimate' run-ins with the aliens.

 LordofHats wrote:
AvP 2 wasn't dumb.

Agree to disagree.

 LordofHats wrote:
(Antarctica? Pyramids? Ancient Aliens? Come on screen writers your better than this)

See I like all that pulp stuff. I had so much fun playing the AvP game (2010) - which is probably what AvP the movie should have been ... but was likely just too expensive.

 Pacific wrote:
the CGI of Alien 3

Most of the shots of the xenomorph in A3 are practical effects - either puppetry for when you see the whole thing running around or a a guy in the suit for close ups. IIRC there were only a few CGI effects - like when the runner was crawling on the ceiling with an actor in the same shot below. The three methods failed to produce a consistent look. But I mostly like the puppet stuff, especially the restored scene of the cute lil bambi-burster scampering off.

I guess I'm weird in that I really like both AvP and AvP2.

I readily admit that the whole antarctica thing is kinda dumb, but I still like the movie nonetheless. I think AvP2 was a bit better in that at least they went back to canon (according to a buddy of mine who's more read on the universe than me) by having the 3 hunter group.

Even Predator 2 has it's own quirky upsides. Really the only film(s) I don't particularly care for is Alien 3, and Resurrection. And really, the one there that draws my true dislike is Resurrection.

See, I like Resurrection but that's because it basically lifted one my favorite books from the book lines plots line for line and just added in Ripley and a few other curly ques.

I also like Resurrection. Sure, it is cheesy as all hell that they brought back Ripley again - I get the ire on that account. But I love the setting, the style, and the wonderful array of off-beat casting.

 Manchu wrote:
I also like Resurrection. Sure, it is cheesy as all hell that they brought back Ripley again - I get the ire on that account. But I love the setting, the style, and the wonderful array of off-beat casting.

That would be Joss Whedon's doing. He wrote the script originally, but apparently he wasn't too pleased with the final product either.

Wait. Can we go back to the Mantis Aliens for a second? How the heck did that work? You could shove an entire mantis up the facehugger's ovipositor* and probably still have room to pass the embryo. The smallest I could imagine is a facehugger impregnating a chihuahua*, although that would be quite a stretch. There has to be some other kind of explanation for a Mantis Alien, like kroot-style genetic sampling.

*Please, no one ever create artwork or fiction depicting such an event.

 Manchu wrote:
That was just part of Giger's design.

How much of Giger's design survived into the Covenant alien? From the pictures I've seen, the alien looks far too fleshy, like one of the Resurrection aliens.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How the heck did that work?

It was just a toy concept. Kenner never bothered to explain this kind of thing. But yes, this is great example of how the host-based morphology theory/concept is purely that.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
That was just part of Giger's design.

How much of Giger's design survived into the Covenant alien?

Seems fairly faithful - at least I think those are plantigrade legs ...

My comment was more about how Giger designed a look rather than an ecology.

So I assume from the trailers that they've essentially rebooted the franchise and married it to Prometheus? I guess that could work as long as they don't try to attach the old franchise somehow like they did to Ghostbusters.

 Manchu wrote:
See I like all that pulp stuff. I had so much fun playing the AvP game (2010) - which is probably what AvP the movie should have been ... but was likely just too expensive.

Nah I would have loved a movie version of AvP 2010. Wasn't a great game, but it was good enough that if you really liked the premise you'd be able to really enjoy yourself which I did

 Breotan wrote:
So I assume from the trailers that they've essentially rebooted the franchise and married it to Prometheus? I guess that could work as long as they don't try to attach the old franchise somehow like they did to Ghostbusters.

The Alien franchise is set on a much bigger canvas than something like Ghosbusters though(I still don't know why they couldn't have used that cast to make a proper sequel instead). So far nothing seems to contradict the earlier movies.

How many times are they going to the same planet and getting wiped out before they start to think that going to that planet is a bad idea?