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Anyone notice if the character cards are the same? There's one for the Celestant on the preview page. Curious if the stats and abilities are all the same as the one card in the hero deck.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Anyone notice if the character cards are the same? There's one for the Celestant on the preview page. Curious if the stats and abilities are all the same as the one card in the hero deck.

You can use any of the heroes from Silver Tower, supposedly. And yes, it's the same stats & abilities as the hero deck. I'd be interested to see if the beasties from Silver Tower can be used in the game as well.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Some have, though. Maybe you can put those without together to create various larger rooms or smaller ones on top of others with similiar appearance. As the tiles are double-sided it would be interesting to see the full diversity.

And that speaks to my lack of cohesion comment. The artwork certainly looks nice, but they all appear to be scattered types of rooms (some even look like they're outside), meaning you have a random grab-bag of different environments in odd non-contiguous layouts, most of which aren't whole rooms to begin with.

It's very bitsy.

Oh GW, what to do, what to do.

It's good that GW has started asking more fan involvement, yet at the same time I fear that if WQ:SoH doesn't do very well, they may reconsider continuing with WQ, which wouldn't bode well, at all.

Nonetheless, how can one send the message that one approves (possibly, obviously we need to see how the new features play out) of certain features like an inbetween-missions phase without giving GW the idea that putting a whole bunch of already existing minis in a box will have the same effect with the fans as an elaborately designed art style like in ST?

Osorios wrote:
Oh GW, what to do, what to do.

It's good that GW has started asking more fan involvement, yet at the same time I fear that if WQ:SoH doesn't do very well, they may reconsider continuing with WQ, which wouldn't bode well, at all.

Nonetheless, how can one send the message that one approves (possibly, obviously we need to see how the new features play out) of certain features like an inbetween-missions phase without giving GW the idea that putting a whole bunch of already existing minis in a box will have the same effect with the fans as an elaborately designed art style like in ST?

Say that? I'm sure they have some customer service thing, and if you say it concisely and coherently, it might make it to them "this is why I didn't buy your game despite being hyped about it before seeing it" or w/e.

Marxist, yeah, in a similar situation where it's the only casual co-op I have, so it's the only non-RPG game the less-gamery of my circle likes and the two of us who GM don't really want to run a campaign whenever we're playing...

Osorios wrote:
Oh GW, what to do, what to do.

It's good that GW has started asking more fan involvement, yet at the same time I fear that if WQ:SoH doesn't do very well, they may reconsider continuing with WQ, which wouldn't bode well, at all.

Nonetheless, how can one send the message that one approves (possibly, obviously we need to see how the new features play out) of certain features like an inbetween-missions phase without giving GW the idea that putting a whole bunch of already existing minis in a box will have the same effect with the fans as an elaborately designed art style like in ST?

I'm fairly certain GW knows this won't have the success of Silver Tower. This is a stop gap release in response to the overwhelming popularity of Silver Tower. They simply could not turn around a full box game with new sculpts in one year. They likely started on another set with new models, which was rumored to be Death themed.

Now if the next release with actual new models does not sell well, we may not see another WQ release, but this one is really just following their strategy of revoking existing models at a big discount and giving us some additional rules to keep WQ fresh until the next big release.

Personally I'm fine with that, as something is better than nothing. And since I never pulled the trigger on Silver Tower due to the narrow focus of the tiles and enemies, this is actually a little more appealing. That said, I still want to see just how open ended it is with incorporating other models from the range as adversaries.

The official response is you can use other models as baddies and stat them out yourself (i.e. homebrew it, we don't want to do the legwork)

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
The official response is you can use other models as baddies and stat them out yourself (i.e. homebrew it, we don't want to do the legwork)

Source? Just out of curiosity.

Quoted from their FB responses, meaning probably not the best info about anything in dev or otherwise not obvious, but still confident enough to write definitively.

The new tiles look good, love the variety.. How does the box stack up value wise in the case of minis?

Lesser variety, fewer characters and large pieces. Depends on how much you care about those, vs. large infantry unit and multipose options.

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
The new tiles look good, love the variety.. How does the box stack up value wise in the case of minis?

It's somewhere around the ballpark of of 105-110 euros for the chaos minis and 60-80 for the order ones.

Its good to see a proper expansion to the game but honestly the content isn't exciting me at all.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:
The new tiles look good, love the variety.. How does the box stack up value wise in the case of minis?

It's somewhere around the ballpark of of 105-110 euros for the chaos minis and 60-80 for the order ones.

In UK money (assuming we're just halving the value of the Acolytes and Bloodreavers boxed sets as it's half the models) then you're looking at around £135 for the miniatures alone (Order £60 and Chaos approx £75).

LordShaft.

At least Hammerhal is a more 'normal' chunk of the Realms to adventure in. I'd like to here some more setting info about it. A place like Monte Cook's Ptolus, set in the Realms would be cool. The cool part about Ptolus was that it was supposed to be a massive city where anything out of the basic DnD rules would not be out of place, even a gigantic graveyard within the city limits (in AoS it could be an influence from the Realm of Death). Warrens, sewers and dungeons supposedly went down hundreds of feet below the entire city.


Detailed Map:
http://dnd.kitanna.net/webpics/ptolus-map.jpg

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Correct on every point. And unlike HMBC, who's major gripe seems to be that he only just bought the Dwarf, I don't have any of these particular heroes, making this game officially the best thing ever released!

Goody for you. And my major gripe isn't the Cogmaster, it's that it's no new models, period. Do I want a Kairic Acolytes? Sure. I think they're fantastic models. Blood Reavers? Why not. That would mean I have 30 of the buggers. 5 more Blight Knights to go with the 10 I already have? Sure thing. I'd much rather something new though. Why couldn't this be the preview of the (apparent) Nurgle expansion in the same way Silver Tower was for Tzeentch? Why couldn't this be as big a deal as Deathwatch Overkill was to 40K?

DW:O was more akin to WQ:ST, and you know it. This is Death Masque if you want to continue the analogy, though even DM's new models were simply the vanguard for the pile of DW new releases. Why no new Nurgles? Because they'd clearly like to sell the individual kits when they get released rather than spoiler them or perhaps "devalue them" with the boxed game. I also realise that this is the opposite tack to what they did with both HH games, but clearly in those cases their focus was different - selling a gakload of box boxes. As for no new models, I address that down the post.

I'm a tile junkie, so the prospect of, what 16... 19... (?) double sided tiles with GW's excellent art design is very appealing, and might be the single thing that makes me buy this over my own hang-ups with the release (I'm already brainstorming what bits I can use to turn the Chaos Sorcerer into an Inquisitor, and the Cogmaster into a Lathesmaster for Dark Heresy), but that doesn't take away from the fact that this is another 40K boxed game release that is moving existing stock rather than giving us something new.

There's your solution. Buy the game components sans miniatures. You get your tiles and you're good. These tiles should be a hell of a lot more versatile than the ST ones as well. I know I plan to use them in fantasy gaming, which is part and parcel why I plan to buy multiple sets, along with the minis for army building.

 Azazelx wrote:
While it could be entertaining to sit down and roll on a bunch of random event tables, it's not exactly on a par with playing the game.

What an appallingly disingenuous thing to say. The stuff between dungeons was the game. An equal part, through and through. It wasn't just rolling random tables.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Differing opinions and all that. Nice contradiction in a single sentence, though.

 Azazelx wrote:
... endless butthurt or whining...

Ah good. We're back to "Everyone who doesn't love this is a whiner/hater". Classy.

And you still can't even spell my fething name right. It's got four letters. Ain't hard.

 mdauben wrote:
Its good to see a proper expansion to the game but honestly the content isn't exciting me at all.

That's because its not a proper expansion to Silver Tower

This game is literally just a truckload worse then Silver Tower.

It looks like this will live or die with the quality of its rules.

str00dles1 wrote:
This game is literally just a truckload worse then Silver Tower.

Based on what measure?

So any theories on the insect building on the map?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/CinderfallMapContent.jpg

My first thought is Sylvaneth since their kin-sprites are insect based but since it's next to the dockyard maybe it houses exotic creatures captured on expeditions?

The official response is you can use other models as baddies and stat them out yourself (i.e. homebrew it, we don't want to do the legwork)

Wouldn't be surprised if a future white dwarf magazine does that at some point. (Though maybe we should suggest it to them to be safe...)

What insect building?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:
This game is literally just a truckload worse then Silver Tower.

Based on what measure?

Apparently no new minis means the game sucks. Funny that everyone bemoans GW for being a miniature company and not a games company, and when they put out games(and some really, really good ones) with existing minis, they are crucified for it.

Yet more evidence some people's GW "hobby" is just complaining about whatever they do.

@Zebiolizard, near the top-left corner, looks like a beetle/centipede cross.

I am not fussed about the mini's , they are decent and cheaper than separate purchases, it's the introduction of the gm that's changed it for me as I liked the dice/card controlled gm, as I only play co-op with my wife for the original st , that's personal preference though as it may suit others.

Marxist artist wrote:
I am not fussed about the mini's , they are decent and cheaper than separate purchases, it's the introduction of the gm that's changed it for me as I liked the dice/card controlled gm, as I only play co-op with my wife for the original st , that's personal preference though as it may suit others.

You could play as some lesser characters bound to her will. You play them but she makes all the tactical decisions while you GM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also weave their deaths/betrayals into the narrative.

 Starfarer wrote:
Apparently no new minis means the game sucks. Funny that everyone bemoans GW for being a miniature company and not a games company, and when they put out games(and some really, really good ones) with existing minis, they are crucified for it.

Yet more evidence some people's GW "hobby" is just complaining about whatever they do.

Sorry, but that's just as much nonsense as what str00dles1 said.

It can be bad that GW released a game with no new minis and still be a good game. This isn't an either/or situation.

That's not what he said. He said the game was a truckload worse than ST.

At the moment I'm replaying Descent this time with the App and, having played through Descent and Imperial assault with a DM and ST with their behaviour tables, I'd say that seems the best of both worlds.

If this is really the return of the old (deeper) WHQ then that seems like a good thing - and if one day they added an App it would be ideal

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
in a similar situation where it's the only casual co-op I have, so it's the only non-RPG game the less-gamery of my circle likes and the two of us who GM don't really want to run a campaign whenever we're playing...

If you want a more Co-op focused dungeon crawl check out Shadows of Brimstone by Flying Frog Productions, it's loosely based on the rules from the old Warhammer Quest (if you haven't seen it already). There's also Sword & Sorcery from Ares Games coming out a bit later this year, Massive Darkness from CMON, and Darklight: Memento Mori by Dark Ice Games (also heavily based on the old Warhammer Quest).

I'm pretty disappointed at the lack of co-op play in this release. I'm not a fan of the dungeon master driven model, mostly because no one ever wants to be the DM so I end up doing it and never get to play as a hero. I'd have otherwise have been all over it after passing up silver tower (hell I may have even gone back to reconsider silver tower, there were some minis in there I really liked but opted out because of the rules).

Doesn't the fourth photo, with the inside of the GM screen, show behaviour tables for the monsters?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-Quest-Hammerhal-GM-Screen

I guess there is both, co-op and GM lead gameplay

Maybe. They haven't mentioned it though, so the tables might just be if you want to take those monsters back into Silver Tower.

So you're right, I might be a bit preemptive on the disappointment, but its enough that I'm not gonna pre-order the game before I know what the actual details are.


It's also a shame the game appears to be missing the exploration cards, although that would probably be less of an issue to jury-rig back into the system.