Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
- Have an event focused around Cadia, the most important Imperial Guard system in the Galaxy behind Terra.

- The Imperial Guard are completely useless and have to be bailed out by the Space Marines.

Is this the most fluff-accurate event GW has ever done?

Celestine and the Sisters bailed out the Imperial Guard.

The Imperial Guard held the line until the planet literally cracked open to cover the Space Marines running away with their tails between their legs.

No no, Cadia got destroyed and Chaos is rampaging across the Galaxy.

Time for Guilliman to clean up the mess.

You'd think they'd add some sort of Guard character as part as the Imperium triumvirate, but I am willing to be its going to T:Imperium and T:Space Marines with the Guard being left out, again.

This Gathering Storm stuff all seems to be REALLY out of left field. How did Cyrus get involved in the defense of Cadia? Or was he already on Ultramar? That'd make even less sense. How he was even able to approach Guilliman... Did they not know? Oh, wait, they don't know. Well that's actually kind of cool. They let him right in because they don't know about the Fallen. But still, how did Cyrus A: Know what was going on enough to be at Guilliman's revival, and B: Manage to actually get there? I mean, Cyrus, of all people? This isn't as MacGuffin-y as Trazyn, but still...

I mean I guess if possessed Eldar are allowed to approach Guilliman...

With that blown up picture it at least shows that the braziers are not part of his armor , I was really questioning that design before I got a better look.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
- Have an event focused around Cadia, the most important Imperial Guard system in the Galaxy behind Terra.

- The Imperial Guard are completely useless and have to be bailed out by the Space Marines.

Is this the most fluff-accurate event GW has ever done?

Celestine and the Sisters bailed out the Imperial Guard.

The Imperial Guard held the line until the planet literally cracked open to cover the Space Marines running away with their tails between their legs.

No no, Cadia got destroyed and Chaos is rampaging across the Galaxy.

Time for Guilliman to clean up the mess.

You'd think they'd add some sort of Guard character as part as the Imperium triumvirate, but I am willing to be its going to T:Imperium and T:Space Marines with the Guard being left out, again.

I figured there'd be a Chaos Triumverite or something, but I guess Chaos just gets too much love. I mean WOAH guys, Thousand Sons was a bit much, let's tone it down for another 12 years.

 Don Savik wrote:
Where the hell is the chaos stuff in this campaign?

Who cares? Chaos are an NPC race, like like the Tyranids. They exist to get beaten by the good guys.

It's far easier to kill Doobie than it is to make a new plastic model.

Are Necrons ever going to get anything new?

 insaniak wrote:
Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

See I don't see why that's a problem. Primarchs to me have always been titanic individuals far larger than regular humans, so much so that it wouldn't be fair to even call them human any more. They're genetically engineered supermen created by someone who himself was far beyond human, both in stature and intelligence/power/abilities.

If he was the same size as his brothers (like the original Russ mini from back in the RT days) it would feel strange. It wouldn't be as grand.

 Quarterdime wrote:
This Gathering Storm stuff all seems to be REALLY out of left field. How did Cyrus get involved in the defense of Cadia? Or was he already on Ultramar? That'd make even less sense. How he was even able to approach Guilliman... Did they not know? Oh, wait, they don't know. Well that's actually kind of cool. They let him right in because they don't know about the Fallen. But still, how did Cyrus A: Know what was going on enough to be at Guilliman's revival, and B: Manage to actually get there? I mean, Cyrus, of all people? This isn't as MacGuffin-y as Trazyn, but still...

Dunno about this Cyrus guy, but Cypher has the ability to appear in really strange places.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:
This Gathering Storm stuff all seems to be REALLY out of left field. How did Cyrus get involved in the defense of Cadia? Or was he already on Ultramar? That'd make even less sense. How he was even able to approach Guilliman... Did they not know? Oh, wait, they don't know. Well that's actually kind of cool. They let him right in because they don't know about the Fallen. But still, how did Cyrus A: Know what was going on enough to be at Guilliman's revival, and B: Manage to actually get there? I mean, Cyrus, of all people? This isn't as MacGuffin-y as Trazyn, but still...

Dunno about this Cyrus guy, but Cypher has the ability to appear in really strange places.

Well, Cyrus was pretty sneaky himself. Guilliman probably woke up because the Blood Ravens stole his Stasis field generator.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

See I don't see why that's a problem. Primarchs to me have always been titanic individuals far larger than regular humans, so much so that it wouldn't be fair to even call them human any more. They're genetically engineered supermen created by someone who himself was far beyond human, both in stature and intelligence/power/abilities.

If he was the same size as his brothers (like the original Russ mini from back in the RT days) it would feel strange. It wouldn't be as grand.

It's a problem because it looks absurd.

It doesn't look 'grand' to me. It just looks like a human that's been sculpted in a different scale.

And it's a problem every time he wants to walk through a door.

Making them slightly larger than regular Marines would have still been impressive while maintaining some semblance of practicality. Making them twice the size just shatters suspension of disbelief through being thoroughly impractical and looking stupid.


YMMV, obviously.

 insaniak wrote:
Fitting the fluff isn't the problem... It's absurd enough in the fiction, but they get away with it by the writers just largely ignoring it.

Seeing it physically on the table just highlights how silly it looks for the Primarchs to be that tall.

Agreed, FW pretty much reached the absurdity limit and a lot of the extra height on their primarchs comes from the heroic basing. When the pirmarch looks like they 'd barely fit in the maw of a thunderhawk it's a bit much.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

See I don't see why that's a problem. Primarchs to me have always been titanic individuals far larger than regular humans, so much so that it wouldn't be fair to even call them human any more. They're genetically engineered supermen created by someone who himself was far beyond human, both in stature and intelligence/power/abilities.

If he was the same size as his brothers (like the original Russ mini from back in the RT days) it would feel strange. It wouldn't be as grand.

Contemptor dread size still seems a bit much no?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:


Dunno about this Cyrus guy, but Cypher has the ability to appear in really strange places.

Well, Cyrus was pretty sneaky himself. Guilliman probably woke up because the Blood Ravens stole his Stasis field generator.

I just hope his torso can be rotated without too much cutting. Centering his body with his groin will improve it a bit.

I still like the Forge World version although it would look cooler with the two-handed flaming sword instead of the gladius.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Guys, one Primarch isn't going to wreck anything. There were 18 at one point with Big E and they still couldn't conquer the whole galaxy easily. It took centuries in the Great Crusade.

One Primarch means a story shift, not a radical beating of all the enemies of Mankind.

Thank you for being the voice of reason.

There seems to be a lot of concern about 40k moving towards big models with a few minions. I did some checking. Since the start of 2015 GW has released 12 infantry kits, 6 vehicle kits and six really big kits. That does not seem too bad a balance. They have gone a bit crazy with the standard sized heroes though, about 30 in the same timeframe (8 already this year).

Regarding these kits I will share the common opinion. Roboute is not great, though the helmet option is better. The Grey knight is a solid plastic Hq choice for that army ( expect to see him in a start collecting box soon). Cypher is amazing, exactly how I pictured him in my head. I have been intensely interested in his story for the last 20 years so I am glad that we may finally get some answers.

Thrilled about Guilliman returning, also love the model. I think a lot of the reason he's on the large side scale-wise is to at least SOMEWHAT match up to Magnus, who is massive, and because having him be the same size as a Centurion would just be lame.

Chikout wrote:
There seems to be a lot of concern about 40k moving towards big models with a few minions. I did some checking. Since the start of 2015 GW has released 12 infantry kits, 6 vehicle kits and six really big kits. That does not seem too bad a balance. They have gone a bit crazy with the standard sized heroes though, about 30 in the same timeframe (8 already this year).

Regarding these kits I will share the common opinion. Roboute is not great, though the helmet option is better. The Grey knight is a solid plastic Hq choice for that army ( expect to see him in a start collecting box soon). Cypher is amazing, exactly how I pictured him in my head. I have been intensely interested in his story for the last 20 years so I am glad that we may finally get some answers.

Heros/named characters are the last major area where models need transition from resin/metal to plastic. Yes some armies still have large parts of their range in resin and need updates, but as a whole a strong majority of all units are in plastic now.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Chikout wrote:
There seems to be a lot of concern about 40k moving towards big models with a few minions. I did some checking. Since the start of 2015 GW has released 12 infantry kits, 6 vehicle kits and six really big kits. That does not seem too bad a balance. They have gone a bit crazy with the standard sized heroes though, about 30 in the same timeframe (8 already this year).

Regarding these kits I will share the common opinion. Roboute is not great, though the helmet option is better. The Grey knight is a solid plastic Hq choice for that army ( expect to see him in a start collecting box soon). Cypher is amazing, exactly how I pictured him in my head. I have been intensely interested in his story for the last 20 years so I am glad that we may finally get some answers.

Heros/named characters are the last major area where models need transition from resin/metal to plastic. Yes some armies still have large parts of their range in resin and need updates, but as a whole a strong majority of all units are in plastic now.

Unless you play sisters.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Vorian wrote:
I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.
That's a real time saver

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what developments they made in it to know that they don't like it. Especially when the developments in the setting are clearly things that you don't wanted to see (the return of the primarchs).

You don't have to eat gak to know that you don't like it.
Again, I'm not saying that these changes are objectively bad, but personally, I think they are terrible, as the 40k setting was pretty much perfect as it was imo.

Liked it "as it was"? Pretty much perfect?

When? A month ago before The Gathering Storm?

When Squats were squatted? Or back when they were a big part of the Imperium? When GSC were still a dim thing in the background, or when they returned in a big way? Before or after Tau and Kroot were created and inserted into the game. Before Necrons, or with their original fluff or their retconned fluff? Imperial Army, Imperial Guard or Astra Militarium? When Sisters had a real, accessible army, or when they quietly disappeared? When The Battle for the Farm was a "current event"? Back when all Dark Angels wore black armour? Or afterwards when an WD cover artist's misunderstanding of the brief changed their livery forever more? When all Eldar were pirates? Or when their craftworlds were added in? Or much later when their Dark brethren and their mutual hatred were added? Or later again when their uneasy alliances were added in?

The background and story has always slowly been moving forward, and retconning the setting's past has been happening just ad often as new things added have their "oh, that's always been there" written in. This is just more of the same. If you dislike it just play your games in the part of the timeline that fits with your favourite "version" of the total background. Treat the 40k timeline more like Battletech or Middle Earth or even Star Wars.

ERJAK wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Chikout wrote:
There seems to be a lot of concern about 40k moving towards big models with a few minions. I did some checking. Since the start of 2015 GW has released 12 infantry kits, 6 vehicle kits and six really big kits. That does not seem too bad a balance. They have gone a bit crazy with the standard sized heroes though, about 30 in the same timeframe (8 already this year).

Regarding these kits I will share the common opinion. Roboute is not great, though the helmet option is better. The Grey knight is a solid plastic Hq choice for that army ( expect to see him in a start collecting box soon). Cypher is amazing, exactly how I pictured him in my head. I have been intensely interested in his story for the last 20 years so I am glad that we may finally get some answers.

Heros/named characters are the last major area where models need transition from resin/metal to plastic. Yes some armies still have large parts of their range in resin and need updates, but as a whole a strong majority of all units are in plastic now.

Unless you play sisters.

Sisters don't have all that many unique sculpts, so the 4 plastic models they have now is a not insignificant fraction of their total model range :p

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

See I don't see why that's a problem. Primarchs to me have always been titanic individuals far larger than regular humans, so much so that it wouldn't be fair to even call them human any more. They're genetically engineered supermen created by someone who himself was far beyond human, both in stature and intelligence/power/abilities.

If he was the same size as his brothers (like the original Russ mini from back in the RT days) it would feel strange. It wouldn't be as grand.

It's a problem because it looks absurd.

It doesn't look 'grand' to me. It just looks like a human that's been sculpted in a different scale.

And it's a problem every time he wants to walk through a door.

Making them slightly larger than regular Marines would have still been impressive while maintaining some semblance of practicality. Making them twice the size just shatters suspension of disbelief through being thoroughly impractical and looking stupid.


YMMV, obviously.

Was just discussing this with my brother. Primarchs ALL look silly to us as sculptors because they don't look super natural or Marines plus, they simply look like marines from a 54mm scale line designed for your showcase, stuffed onto the table with 28mm scale marines. Magnus works much better because he doesn't look like a marine or even remotely human, all the good primarchs are going to look silly on the table IMHO.

 Azazelx wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Vorian wrote:
I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.
That's a real time saver

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what developments they made in it to know that they don't like it. Especially when the developments in the setting are clearly things that you don't wanted to see (the return of the primarchs).

You don't have to eat gak to know that you don't like it.
Again, I'm not saying that these changes are objectively bad, but personally, I think they are terrible, as the 40k setting was pretty much perfect as it was imo.

Liked it "as it was"? Pretty much perfect?

When? A month ago before The Gathering Storm?

When Squats were squatted? Or back when they were a big part of the Imperium? When GSC were still a dim thing in the background, or when they returned in a big way? Before or after Tau and Kroot were created and inserted into the game. Before Necrons, or with their original fluff or their retconned fluff? Imperial Army, Imperial Guard or Astra Militarium? When Sisters had a real, accessible army, or when they quietly disappeared? When The Battle for the Farm was a "current event"? Back when all Dark Angels wore black armour? Or afterwards when an WD cover artist's misunderstanding of the brief changed their livery forever more? When all Eldar were pirates? Or when their craftworlds were added in? Or much later when their Dark brethren and their mutual hatred were added? Or later again when their uneasy alliances were added in?

The background and story has always slowly been moving forward, and retconning the setting's past has been happening just ad often as new things added have their "oh, that's always been there" written in. This is just more of the same. If you dislike it just play your games in the part of the timeline that fits with your favourite "version" of the total background. Treat the 40k timeline more like Battletech or Middle Earth or even Star Wars.

This really, fantastically put

So as someone who never really cared much for the Horus Heresy, does anyone mind explaining to me how Guilliman's armor changed so much from his Forge World version if he was kept in stasis ever since the days following the heresy?

Do the Primarchs change armor a lot?

It almost looks like he's in semi Centurian armor.

 Quarterdime wrote:
So as someone who never really cared much for the Horus Heresy, does anyone mind explaining to me how Guilliman's armor changed so much from his Forge World version if he was kept in stasis ever since the days following the heresy?

Do the Primarchs change armor a lot?

It's not the same suit of armour. The HH era is the Armour of Reason. The new set is called the Armour of Fates.

And yes, Primarchs have multiple sets of armour and weapons.

i'm actually really liking girlyman. but he needs more roman trappings

little sad RG doesnt have a brush on his helmet.. would look much better I think, then again i guess it would block the iron halo..

So Cawl has a hand in resurrecting Guilliman. Cawl is said to be carrying something that really upsets Abaddon. Honestly, I can't say I think that thing is related to Guilliman.

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

See I don't see why that's a problem. Primarchs to me have always been titanic individuals far larger than regular humans, so much so that it wouldn't be fair to even call them human any more. They're genetically engineered supermen created by someone who himself was far beyond human, both in stature and intelligence/power/abilities.

If he was the same size as his brothers (like the original Russ mini from back in the RT days) it would feel strange. It wouldn't be as grand.

It's a problem because it looks absurd.

It doesn't look 'grand' to me. It just looks like a human that's been sculpted in a different scale.

And it's a problem every time he wants to walk through a door.

Making them slightly larger than regular Marines would have still been impressive while maintaining some semblance of practicality. Making them twice the size just shatters suspension of disbelief through being thoroughly impractical and looking stupid.


YMMV, obviously.

COuldn't say it any better. Looks like a mini for Inq, not for WH40k


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Vorian wrote:
I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.
That's a real time saver

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what developments they made in it to know that they don't like it. Especially when the developments in the setting are clearly things that you don't wanted to see (the return of the primarchs).

You don't have to eat gak to know that you don't like it.
Again, I'm not saying that these changes are objectively bad, but personally, I think they are terrible, as the 40k setting was pretty much perfect as it was imo.

Liked it "as it was"? Pretty much perfect?

When? A month ago before The Gathering Storm?

When Squats were squatted? Or back when they were a big part of the Imperium? When GSC were still a dim thing in the background, or when they returned in a big way? Before or after Tau and Kroot were created and inserted into the game. Before Necrons, or with their original fluff or their retconned fluff? Imperial Army, Imperial Guard or Astra Militarium? When Sisters had a real, accessible army, or when they quietly disappeared? When The Battle for the Farm was a "current event"? Back when all Dark Angels wore black armour? Or afterwards when an WD cover artist's misunderstanding of the brief changed their livery forever more? When all Eldar were pirates? Or when their craftworlds were added in? Or much later when their Dark brethren and their mutual hatred were added? Or later again when their uneasy alliances were added in?

The background and story has always slowly been moving forward, and retconning the setting's past has been happening just ad often as new things added have their "oh, that's always been there" written in. This is just more of the same. If you dislike it just play your games in the part of the timeline that fits with your favourite "version" of the total background. Treat the 40k timeline more like Battletech or Middle Earth or even Star Wars.

Most of the changes you've described happened more than a decade and a half ago It's pretty obvious that I wasn't referring to RT era 40k nor 2nd edition. The only real semi recent change you've listed was the one to the Necrons Background, and I'm sure you do know that the Necrons role in the setting is a lot less central than the one of the IOM

And filling some parts of the universe or reintroducing some old armies is not the same thing as moving the time line forward and changing some of the most canonicals stuff in the setting. But then, I have no doubt that you also know that and you're arguing for the sake of it.

Oh man, that Robute Guilliman model is really baaad.

I'm a UM guy and Robute's my man, but I'm feeling a little embarrassed by these pics.