The Gathering Storm Part III: Rise of the Primarch -- twitch broadcast 3.3.17

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**streetsamurai**

yeah, he looks like a deformed teenager going through his growth spurt. Terrible model :(

**Insectum7**

streetsamurai wrote:
yeah, he looks like a deformed teenager going through his growth spurt. Terrible model :(

Haha, well isn't that their target market?

**kodos**

streetsamurai wrote:

Azazelx wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
Vorian wrote:
I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.
That's a real time saver

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what developments they made in it to know that they don't like it. Especially when the developments in the setting are clearly things that you don't wanted to see (the return of the primarchs).

You don't have to eat gak to know that you don't like it.
Again, I'm not saying that these changes are objectively bad, but personally, I think they are terrible, as the 40k setting was pretty much perfect as it was imo.

Liked it "as it was"? Pretty much perfect?

When? A month ago before The Gathering Storm?

When Squats were squatted? Or back when they were a big part of the Imperium? When GSC were still a dim thing in the background, or when they returned in a big way? Before or after Tau and Kroot were created and inserted into the game. Before Necrons, or with their original fluff or their retconned fluff? Imperial Army, Imperial Guard or Astra Militarium? When Sisters had a real, accessible army, or when they quietly disappeared? When The Battle for the Farm was a "current event"? Back when all Dark Angels wore black armour? Or afterwards when an WD cover artist's misunderstanding of the brief changed their livery forever more? When all Eldar were pirates? Or when their craftworlds were added in? Or much later when their Dark brethren and their mutual hatred were added? Or later again when their uneasy alliances were added in?

The background and story has always slowly been moving forward, and retconning the setting's past has been happening just ad often as new things added have their "oh, that's always been there" written in. This is just more of the same. If you dislike it just play your games in the part of the timeline that fits with your favourite "version" of the total background. Treat the 40k timeline more like Battletech or Middle Earth or even Star Wars.

Most of the changes you've described happened more than a decade and a half ago It's pretty obvious that I wasn't referring to RT era 40k nor 2nd edition. The only real semi recent change you've listed was the one to the Necrons Background, and I'm sure you do know that the Necrons role in the setting is a lot less central than the one of the IOM

RT or 2nd Edi fluff was more or less just Fantasy in Space with a Copy&Paste of Dune and 3rd added Starship Troopers while removing the to opvious fantasy stuff

and 40k is constantly changing with major things like Necrons (their change had a huge impact to the endtimes setting) or Tau, but also small stuff like with the Thousand Sons.

While I love the Dune and Starship Troopers stuff (the books) if 40k would finally move away of just being a melting pot of them and become something unique

**AegisGrimm**

I'm not sure I understand all the complaints about how "nothing can compete with a Primarch, the Imperium finally jumped the shark bringing him back, because now everyone will lose to them".

Guilliman basically ran the Imperium for quite a long while after the Heresy Ended. Several Primarchs are active on the Chaos side, with daemonic boosts above their normal primarch abilities, at that. Hell, Guilliman has already been "killed" once!

I personally like the figure, and I hope there is a schism in the fluff based around Ultramar, as it would add greatly to the plotline.

**His Master's Voice**

kodos wrote:
While I love the Dune and Starship Troopers stuff (the books) if 40k would finally move away of just being a melting pot of them and become something unique

The setting has done so years ago. 40k is very much its own thing now.

**casvalremdeikun**

AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm not sure I understand all the complaints about how "nothing can compete with a Primarch, the Imperium finally jumped the shark bringing him back, because now everyone will lose to them".

Guilliman basically ran the Imperium for quite a long while after the Heresy Ended. Several Primarchs are active on the Chaos side, with daemonic boosts above their normal primarch abilities, at that. Hell, Guilliman has already been "killed" once!

I personally like the figure, and I hope there is a schism in the fluff based around Ultramar, as it would add greatly to the plotline.

Never underestimate a geek's ability to whine about something they never had any intention of buying.

**Eldarain**

Having the IoM fracture around pre/post Imperial Truth beliefs would be great if they are going to bring Primarchs back.

**His Master's Voice**

Dunno about the fracturing. We already had Horus Heresy, no need to revisit that idea.

Not to mention, a split Imperium is an Imperium losing even fast than it does now.

**Mr_Rose**

So, anyway, what's the over/under on bobby's head being the only part of them they kept?
A literal figurehead on a wholly mechanical body…?

**EmberlordofFire8**

I'm still quite sure that's the Emperor's sword. But I will look forward to Corax's return.

Plus it would be cool if Fulgrim came back, right before he was possessed her renounced Chaos (if I remember correctly) and if Ynead kills Slaanesh then his/hers/its daemons would lose power too. Right?

**His Master's Voice**

Mr_Rose wrote:
So, anyway, what's the over/under on bobby's head being the only part of them they kept?
A literal figurehead on a wholly mechanical body…?

I'd imagine the miniature would be way more Mechanicus in nature if they made him the 40k equivalent of Robocop.

**Schmapdi**

Wow - I always thought a normal space marine was like 8-8.5 feet tall, with a Primarch being a giant at like 10 feet tall. Apparently Primarch's are more like 16 feet tall.

It seems like pretty good model - they just need to scale it to 70% of it's current size.

**Mr. CyberPunk**

Schmapdi wrote:
Wow - I always thought a normal space marine was like 8-8.5 feet tall, with a Primarch being a giant at like 10 feet tall. Apparently Primarch's are more like 16 feet tall.

It seems like pretty good model - they just need to scale it to 70% of it's current size.

Felt the same way about Magnus too. Would probably be cool if he was scaled down, but as of now, an abomination of a ''mini''. Not too keen on where GW is going right now. It seems it's all about the mass consumption of shiny (constantly bigger) new toy's one after another (I mean, GSC were released less than 6 months ago and the game seems to have already gone far past them). Will take a wait and see approach until 8th edition drops as it's fairly obvious it's gonna bring some serious changes.

**Eldarain**

Mr. CyberPunk wrote:
Schmapdi wrote:
Wow - I always thought a normal space marine was like 8-8.5 feet tall, with a Primarch being a giant at like 10 feet tall. Apparently Primarch's are more like 16 feet tall.

It seems like pretty good model - they just need to scale it to 70% of it's current size.

Felt the same way about Magnus too. Would probably be cool if he was scaled down, but as of now, an abomination of a ''mini''. Not too keen on where GW is going right now. It seems it's all about the mass consumption of shiny (constantly bigger) new toy's one after another (I mean, GSC were released less than 6 months ago and the game seems to have gone far past them in the meantime). Will take a wait and see approach until 8th edition drops as it's fairly obvious it's gonna bring some serious changes.

At least he's spent a gakload of time in the Eye and has been elevated to Daemonhood. Roboute better have some serious cybernetics written into his return to justify that beast of a miniature.

**Mr_Rose**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Mr_Rose wrote:
So, anyway, what's the over/under on bobby's head being the only part of them they kept?
A literal figurehead on a wholly mechanical body…?

I'd imagine the miniature would be way more Mechanicus in nature if they made him the 40k equivalent of Robocop.

I dunno; Cawl is old enough to realise that there's a reason that the Imperium makes its gear like that, and skilled enough to engineer his stuff within those constraints. Plus the exterior design could easily be a shell over a bunch of distinctly "Mechanicus" parts. Seriously, look at the suits knees: exposed pistons instead of a flexible environmental seal?

Plus, this way there's room for the haemonculi to have fun with the original body, like regrowing a new head on it and using it to play both sides against the middle by claiming it as the "true" Guilleman….

**Sentinel1**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Dunno about the fracturing. We already had Horus Heresy, no need to revisit that idea.

Not to mention, a split Imperium is an Imperium losing even fast than it does now.

That's Heresy! Come here to receive your complimentary bolter round

EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
I'm still quite sure that's the Emperor's sword. But I will look forward to Corax's return.

Plus it would be cool if Fulgrim came back, right before he was possessed her renounced Chaos (if I remember correctly) and if Ynead kills Slaanesh then his/hers/its daemons would lose power too. Right?

Yes, I am not quite sure how Slaanesh will end up. G.W wants to squat it ala A.O.S for a P.C friendly model range. If they do I'm not sure how they would deal with Fulgrim's possession, because the Daemon would still be alive without its master? Also what would have to all the Noise Marines? Would loosing their patron take away the 'gifts' they received? Would the Emperor's Children become extinct in mass suicide, devoid of sensation without being able to cope with good old mundane reality?

**Vorian**

Slaanesh is going nowhere in either 40k or AoS. The end.

**ekwatts**

It has been repeatedly stated that GW are not squatting Slaanesh. Please stop repeating something that is untrue.

**Nostromodamus**

EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
I'm still quite sure that's the Emperor's sword.

Confirmed to be exactly that in the Warhammer Community article.

**Sentinel1**

ekwatts wrote:
It has been repeatedly stated that GW are not squatting Slaanesh. Please stop repeating something that is untrue.

#

Hey its 'alternative facts'

We don't know what's in store till the next set of legitimate leaks, hopefully everyone gets something they will like out of this lead up to 8th edition...

**CrudeLord**

Crablezworth wrote:
insaniak wrote:
Fitting the fluff isn't the problem... It's absurd enough in the fiction, but they get away with it by the writers just largely ignoring it.

Seeing it physically on the table just highlights how silly it looks for the Primarchs to be that tall.

Agreed, FW pretty much reached the absurdity limit and a lot of the extra height on their primarchs comes from the heroic basing. When the pirmarch looks like they 'd barely fit in the maw of a thunderhawk it's a bit much.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
insaniak wrote:
Robert is a pretty sculpt, but ridiculously large.

See I don't see why that's a problem. Primarchs to me have always been titanic individuals far larger than regular humans, so much so that it wouldn't be fair to even call them human any more. They're genetically engineered supermen created by someone who himself was far beyond human, both in stature and intelligence/power/abilities.

If he was the same size as his brothers (like the original Russ mini from back in the RT days) it would feel strange. It wouldn't be as grand.

Contemptor dread size still seems a bit much no?

I have to agree here- I just feel like someone brought their Inquisitor mini's to a 40k game. The sculpt is great mind- just a bit goofy looking when stood next to a.normal marine.

**casvalremdeikun**

Honestly, at this point, it should be a bannable offense for posting the idea of Slaanesh being squatted. It derails discussion for pages at a time. It adds nothing to the discussion. GW has repeatedly said it isn't happening. Stop doing it.

So here is my theory: Cawl's casket has the body of Konrad Curze in it. Which is why Abaddon hearing the name has him so worked up. He knows Curze is an X-factor. Or it has Gavriel Loken in it. Which is what the relation to Davin is.

**Quickjager**

Mr_Rose wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Mr_Rose wrote:
So, anyway, what's the over/under on bobby's head being the only part of them they kept?
A literal figurehead on a wholly mechanical body…?

I'd imagine the miniature would be way more Mechanicus in nature if they made him the 40k equivalent of Robocop.

I dunno; Cawl is old enough to realise that there's a reason that the Imperium makes its gear like that, and skilled enough to engineer his stuff within those constraints. Plus the exterior design could easily be a shell over a bunch of distinctly "Mechanicus" parts. Seriously, look at the suits knees: exposed pistons instead of a flexible environmental seal?

Plus, this way there's room for the haemonculi to have fun with the original body, like regrowing a new head on it and using it to play both sides against the middle by claiming it as the "true" Guilleman….

That idea seems pretty dumb.

**Vain**

Thairne wrote:
For all that is holy... this has to be some random guy spouting gak on the internet.

While the fluff is cool and somewhat interesting, the execution... terrible.

This would leave every player that thought his DA loyalists in a hard position:
Repaint everything black
or
play traitors.
I will do neither of these. If this goes through, I've got a DA army to throw in the bin.

If it would be the other way round (traitors go black and loyalists stay with chapter colours) it would be... acceptable.
No more "DA are traitors" - no, THOSE are and I shoot them on sight!

Smells too much of "I made gak up after seeing Cypher with black dudes".
I hope.

Just imagine how a whole bunch of the green DA that have been inducted since the heresy are going to feel about this discovery.
They are being told they big-damn-heroes and then discover this truth.
Perhaps your Greenies are a group of the more loyalist version that haven't completely dunk the koolaid.

**His Master's Voice**

Mr_Rose wrote:
I dunno; Cawl is old enough to realise that there's a reason that the Imperium makes its gear like that, and skilled enough to engineer his stuff within those constraints. Plus the exterior design could easily be a shell over a bunch of distinctly "Mechanicus" parts. Seriously, look at the suits knees: exposed pistons instead of a flexible environmental seal?

This is really about any in setting justification. If GW wanted to do a mechaPrimarch, they'd do a mechaPrimarch. They ain't exactly subtle about this stuff.

**Lord Kragan**

streetsamurai wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azazelx wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
Vorian wrote:
I'm glad we haven't actually had to wait for the book after this book that hasn't been released yet to be released before we get the whinging about how terrible that book's background is.
That's a real time saver

This argument doesn't make any sense, For those that liked the 40k setting as it was, there's no need to see what developments they made in it to know that they don't like it. Especially when the developments in the setting are clearly things that you don't wanted to see (the return of the primarchs).

You don't have to eat gak to know that you don't like it.
Again, I'm not saying that these changes are objectively bad, but personally, I think they are terrible, as the 40k setting was pretty much perfect as it was imo.

Liked it "as it was"? Pretty much perfect?

When? A month ago before The Gathering Storm?

When Squats were squatted? Or back when they were a big part of the Imperium? When GSC were still a dim thing in the background, or when they returned in a big way? Before or after Tau and Kroot were created and inserted into the game. Before Necrons, or with their original fluff or their retconned fluff? Imperial Army, Imperial Guard or Astra Militarium? When Sisters had a real, accessible army, or when they quietly disappeared? When The Battle for the Farm was a "current event"? Back when all Dark Angels wore black armour? Or afterwards when an WD cover artist's misunderstanding of the brief changed their livery forever more? When all Eldar were pirates? Or when their craftworlds were added in? Or much later when their Dark brethren and their mutual hatred were added? Or later again when their uneasy alliances were added in?

The background and story has always slowly been moving forward, and retconning the setting's past has been happening just ad often as new things added have their "oh, that's always been there" written in. This is just more of the same. If you dislike it just play your games in the part of the timeline that fits with your favourite "version" of the total background. Treat the 40k timeline more like Battletech or Middle Earth or even Star Wars.

Most of the changes you've described happened more than a decade and a half ago It's pretty obvious that I wasn't referring to RT era 40k nor 2nd edition. The only real semi recent change you've listed was the one to the Necrons Background, and I'm sure you do know that the Necrons role in the setting is a lot less central than the one of the IOM

And filling some parts of the universe or reintroducing some old armies is not the same thing as moving the time line forward and changing some of the most canonicals stuff in the setting. But then, I have no doubt that you also know that and you're arguing for the sake of it.

Even recently there's been big changes: 5-7 years ago Necrons went to terminator-esque figures to aegyptian space-robots, shifting warriors from being terrifying figures to tragic figures (like you've said). About 3-4 years ago Tau went from an ideallistic and naive faction to an Orwellian state. About 2 years ago, the sisters' incident with the GK was changed into a more palatable thing and Kaldro Draigo moved on to be Space Sisifus to be an even worse sue than what Ward-haters had envisioned. About two years ago or so, Ork technology went from making things "improbable" possible to just "it gives the final push to properly working, but the skilled mechs do 99% of the work", oh and Ghazzghul went to Octarius there too.

If you go and look book by book you'll see changes. Same goes, for example, with the black templars, which now are believed to be barely a thousand, rather than something in the ballpark of 3-6 thousand. Iyanden's backstory too suffered changes in the supplement, and IIRC the Sentinels of Terra did some changes to the IF lore too.

**Big Mac**

Why do so many of you think that a primarch should be humanly proportional? He is a genetic created super being that has human like traits, but he is not a human.

**Iron Angel**

Big Mac wrote:
Why do so many of you think that a primarch should be humanly proportional? He is a genetic created super being that has human like traits, but he is not a human.

I think it's kind of bad from a practical standpoint. He won't fit into anything that his soldiers fit in.. he will stand out on the battlefield (if he fights) really badly, making him a prime target.
I get why they do it, looks heroic and all but in a way I feel like it's more of a disadvantage to the Primarch.
That being said, I still do like the miniature.

**MonkeyBallistic**

Big Mac wrote:
Why do so many of you think that a primarch should be humanly proportional? He is a genetic created super being that has human like traits, but he is not a human.

I have no preconceptions about proportions, but I think this is just an awful miniature. It looks like a toy. It's the worst thing GW have done since the Wolf Santa sleigh.

... all just my opinion of course. You're welcome to disagree.

**Big Mac**

Iron Angel wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Why do so many of you think that a primarch should be humanly proportional? He is a genetic created super being that has human like traits, but he is not a human.

I think it's kind of bad from a practical standpoint. He won't fit into anything that his soldiers fit in.. he will stand out on the battlefield (if he fights) really badly, making him a prime target.
I get why they do it, looks heroic and all but in a way I feel like it's more of a disadvantage to the Primarch.
That being said, I still do like the miniature.

Of course he won't fit into anything his sons can, he is a primarch, and they are space marines, 2 different genetic enhanced breed based on the human geno; even the runt of the litter, Alpharius was a head taller than regular marines in his normal form. Primarchs are very hard to kill, they are the first generation creation based off the Emperor.