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 Big Mac wrote:

 Iron Angel wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Why do so many of you think that a primarch should be humanly proportional? He is a genetic created super being that has human like traits, but he is not a human.

I think it's kind of bad from a practical standpoint. He won't fit into anything that his soldiers fit in.. he will stand out on the battlefield (if he fights) really badly, making him a prime target.
I get why they do it, looks heroic and all but in a way I feel like it's more of a disadvantage to the Primarch.
That being said, I still do like the miniature.

Of course he won't fit into anything his sons can, he is a primarch, and they are space marines, 2 different genetic enhanced breed based on the human geno; even the runt of the litter, Alpharius was a head taller than regular marines in his normal form. Primarchs are very hard to kill, they are the first generation creation based off the Emperor.

I know that and just stated why I think this approach (fluff) is maybe not such a good idea from a practical standpoint.
But I do like the fluff and the mini so.. I'm fine with it.

 Thairne wrote:
For all that is holy... this has to be some random guy spouting gak on the internet.

While the fluff is cool and somewhat interesting, the execution... terrible.

This would leave every player that thought his DA loyalists in a hard position:
Repaint everything black
or
play traitors.
I will do neither of these. If this goes through, I've got a DA army to throw in the bin.

If it would be the other way round (traitors go black and loyalists stay with chapter colours) it would be... acceptable.
No more "DA are traitors" - no, THOSE are and I shoot them on sight!

Smells too much of "I made gak up after seeing Cypher with black dudes".
I hope.

If you look closely at the picture where Cypher leads a few black-armoured Dark Angels alongside mr. 13th Primarch, you can see the models are all* wearing Mk. IV armour. To me, that indicates that these are a retinue of loyal 'Fallen' who have operated with Cypher for ten millennia and not 'modern' Dark Angels who have repainted their armour.

So before you throw your DA collection into the trash, maybe consider that.

*With the exception of the robed guys, who do not get helmets, so it might just be Mk IV armour as well.

Well not into this. It's a dramatic shift in the scope of the established 40K setting, and the model looks like a crap action figure. Pass.

Is it possible that the black armored heresy era Marines that seem to be following Cypher are actually the Consecrators? They're known to wear older pattern armor and have a red/black color scheme. While yeah, Cypher is said to be "Lord of the Fallen", maybe that's just been propaganda on behalf of the DA.

Really not a fan of organic looking armor. Luckily there is a FW Gulliman version.

 Mr_Filament wrote:
Is it possible that the black armored heresy era Marines that seem to be following Cypher are actually the Consecrators? They're known to wear older pattern armor and have a red/black color scheme. While yeah, Cypher is said to be "Lord of the Fallen", maybe that's just been propaganda on behalf of the DA.

That thought had crossed my mind, too. They have a different chapter symbol, though.

 Skylifter1000 wrote:

 Mr_Filament wrote:
Is it possible that the black armored heresy era Marines that seem to be following Cypher are actually the Consecrators? They're known to wear older pattern armor and have a red/black color scheme. While yeah, Cypher is said to be "Lord of the Fallen", maybe that's just been propaganda on behalf of the DA.

That thought had crossed my mind, too. They have a different chapter symbol, though.

Correct, these Marines sport Dark Angel Legion markings, not Consecrator Chapter markings.

How do we know that Cypher isn't playing some Machiavellian long game where him and his Fallen aren't going to betray Guilliman at some point?

My theory is the spit in the Imperium will be that the regular green dark angels who've been hunting Cypher for millennia will not take kindly to the freshly awoken primarch taking him under his wing. Not to mention the fact he's been woken up using xenos Heresy.

I'm in a small camp that likes the model. Loves the cypher mini, so might pick this set up. Admittedly I would have liked Russ or the lion to be released but now I'm thinking black dark angles in 40k = too cool not to be done. Along with some smurfs.

 streetsamurai wrote:


Most of the changes you've described happened more than a decade and a half ago It's pretty obvious that I wasn't referring to RT era 40k nor 2nd edition. The only real semi recent change you've listed was the one to the Necrons Background, and I'm sure you do know that the Necrons role in the setting is a lot less central than the one of the IOM

And filling some parts of the universe or reintroducing some old armies is not the same thing as moving the time line forward and changing some of the most canonicals stuff in the setting. But then, I have no doubt that you also know that and you're arguing for the sake of it.

Yet you still benefit from changes that happened. If we listened to you back then we'd have none of the things we do now.

*Sigh*

I was starting to get cautiously exited with this story line with the eldar stuff being rather cool, but this stupid primarch really killed my enthusiasm.

More I think of this more convinced I am this will ruin the setting. There is already an entire separate game and a huge novel series centred around these superpowered man-babies; why they have to invade 40K too?

I just want the Inquisition to put a bullet in his ugly head and hide the body.

 streetsamurai wrote:
yeah, he looks like a deformed teenager going through his growth spurt.

No he doesn't.

If you don't like the model, that's fine, but we need to cut the Internet Hyperbole down a bit before it gets too overblown.

Cypher looks cool, and I don't mind Roboute. Both the model and the fact the character's back. Just give me Daemon Fulgrim and we'll put him back to sleep

Is there really a body in there. Looks like some kind of robot with a head attached.
I like the noble look of the FW version a lot more. As i imagine him.
I liked it when the primarchs were more mysterious. Less is more.
Also dont like that so many figures are moving away from miniature size. They are starting to become action figures!

Gulliman's mini isn't too bad, the leaked pics just show him from a weird angle.

Ruin wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Hopefully his recovery will help get the Imperium's head out of its ass though.

So basically you want it to stop being the Imperium?

Yes, or split into two Imperiums.

I'll never be able to understand that mindset. If I like something, it's because it is what it is, so why would I want it to be something else?

It's like people who want a dark, gritty, violent, morally-ambiguous Star Trek show.

Because its possible to like multiple things, and even to like things after they change.

Nobody's saying you can't like 40K after the changes, that's a matter of taste, it's the idea that you'd want it to change in the first place if you liked it how it was that baffles me.

Because every so often changing things up can be interesting.

But not this, it's undermining one of the core themes of 40k. GW are pissing all over the background and making sure the stink of their contempt for it runs foetid through every page. Change for change's sake is how we've got this gak fest of 40k's current rules. If the background goes the same way (which all signs point to) then I'm out.

Dude, I've pretty much been out since the new Eldar (sorry, "Aeldari") fluff got revealed. First they pooped all over the background of Dark Eldar, my favourite faction in the game, but then they further push towards this AoS style mish-mash of huge armies made up of broken formations drawn from multiple factions. And to top it off, they continue the push towards OTT, comic book-style miniatures. It's killing the character of both the fluff and the game in my opinion. And now they're doing the same thing to Space Marines, my second favourite faction.

Like, I know a lot of people are stoked for this whole "advancing the storyline thing" but it's basically lost GW my custom, at least until things settle down in a couple of years and I see how badly they've screwed things up.

EDIT: also, am I the only one who's noticed how long Guilliman's neck is? There's been a lot of talk about the wonky thighs or the tiny head but nobody seems to have mentioned how freakishly elongated his neck is!

Lord Kragan wrote:
Even recently there's been big changes: 5-7 years ago Necrons went to terminator-esque figures to aegyptian space-robots, shifting warriors from being terrifying figures to tragic figures (like you've said). About 3-4 years ago Tau went from an ideallistic and naive faction to an Orwellian state. About 2 years ago, the sisters' incident with the GK was changed into a more palatable thing and Kaldro Draigo moved on to be Space Sisifus to be an even worse sue than what Ward-haters had envisioned. About two years ago or so, Ork technology went from making things "improbable" possible to just "it gives the final push to properly working, but the skilled mechs do 99% of the work", oh and Ghazzghul went to Octarius there too.

If you go and look book by book you'll see changes. Same goes, for example, with the black templars, which now are believed to be barely a thousand, rather than something in the ballpark of 3-6 thousand. Iyanden's backstory too suffered changes in the supplement, and IIRC the Sentinels of Terra did some changes to the IF lore too.

You're not describing advancement of the plot. You're describing retcons.

40K has been a series of retcons for over a decade now, not advancements.

Marine Centurions? They've always been there. Just off camera!
Grey Knight Dreadknights? Yep. They're always had those. We just never talked about them before.
Helbrutes? That's just what Chaos Dreads are. Didn't you know?
Space Santa? Logan's had the sled in the shop for a few years, tinkering on it whenever he could. It's not new though!
Necron Dynasties? They were never soulless mute warriors enslaved to Star Gods. Those initial reports were wrong. What's right is that they've always been over the top drama freaks who live in pseudo-Egyptian kingdoms.

On and on it went, with each new unit getting shoved into the fluff like it was always there. And you know what? That was fine. It was pretty silly sometimes (the Centurion being perhaps the most blatant example), and sometimes it was race-defining (Newcrons), but it's the way you introduce new things when your game is a setting, and not a story.

These recent changes are not the same. These are dramatic swings and changes to the setting. Guilliman's return isn't written off as a "By the end of the Scouring only one Primarch remained, Roboute Gilliman, and he has fought for the Imperium ever since!", no, it's a development. A change to the setting, and a fething dramatic one at that.

40K is not a story of change. It is a setting where new elements are slotted in like new documents for a filing cabinet. To torture the analogy further, GW are now adding a new filing cabinet, and a lot of us are worried that once they've finished filling it they're going shred the documents in the first filing cabinet.

Get it?

Tomgar24 wrote:

EDIT: also, am I the only one who's noticed how long Guilliman's neck is? There's been a lot of talk about the wonky thighs or the tiny head but nobody seems to have mentioned how freakishly elongated his neck is!

I mentioned that earlier, and it is the biggest and most obvious flaw in the model. It is weird how most people don't seem to notice it. An easy thing to fix though, unlike the fluff.

Tomgar24 wrote:


Dude, I've pretty much been out since the new Eldar (sorry, "Aeldari") fluff got revealed. First they pooped all over the background of Dark Eldar, my favourite faction in the game, but then they further push towards this AoS style mish-mash of huge armies made up of broken formations drawn from multiple factions. And to top it off, they continue the push towards OTT, comic book-style miniatures. It's killing the character of both the fluff and the game in my opinion. And now they're doing the same thing to Space Marines, my second favourite faction.

i do find the current "aeldari" (vulcans?) lovefest with the imperium to be sickening, all the more reason loyalist knife ear lovers derserve a spiky demon crab claw through the gut

 Crimson wrote:

Tomgar24 wrote:

EDIT: also, am I the only one who's noticed how long Guilliman's neck is? There's been a lot of talk about the wonky thighs or the tiny head but nobody seems to have mentioned how freakishly elongated his neck is!

I mentioned that earlier, and it is the biggest and most obvious flaw in the model. It is weird how most people don't seem to notice it. An easy thing to fix though, unlike the fluff.

Yep it would look better if the helmet was more "sunken" into the torso armor.

Really happy to see the story advance, about time! And Super pumped to see a new Cypher model, looks awesome!! New Guilliman model is growing on me, his new armor is a little flashy for me, and he looks too young in the face, I wish he looked older, I'm glad they redesigned him, the FW heresy version is not my cup of tea. Last thing, a new plastic Abaddon would have been awesome, GW dropped the ball on that one.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
yeah, he looks like a deformed teenager going through his growth spurt.

No he doesn't.

If you don't like the model, that's fine, but we need to cut the Internet Hyperbole down a bit before it gets too overblown.

Lets be fair, the mini is awkward despite being impressive from a technical standard, but that face on his exposed head has to be one of the worst, softest sculpted faces GW has produced since the SM plastic scouts or even the catachan box.

perezba7 wrote:
Really happy to see the story advance, about time! And Super pumped to see a new Cypher model, looks awesome!! New Guilliman model is growing on me, his new armor is a little flashy for me, and he looks too young in the face, I wish he looked older, I'm glad they redesigned him, the FW heresy version is not my cup of tea. Last thing, a new plastic Abaddon would have been awesome, GW dropped the ball on that one.

I'm far from an expert on 40K fluff, but ain't Abaddon kind of past it. I know Gathering Storms is about his 13th (or is it 14th?) Black Crusade but I fail to see how he will stand up to GR. At the very least, he sure doesn't seem menacing anymore. And even if they do a new daemonic version of him, we just had Magnus, the daemonic version of a fething Primarch, he just doesn't stack up (and this is basically why I'm against the return of the Primarch, chaos or loyalist).

Haters just mad their special snowflake Primarch didn't get picked to come back.

Sorry, GW picked their best written one, and the only that ever showed the ability to get gak done after the Heresy. Also, his model is rad, especially with the helmet.

Also, don't crap on Abaddon, he isn't a Primarch but he is the closest in power to one any Space Marine has ever come. He has the powers of Chaos to back him up as well.

 TheArmorOfContempt wrote:
Haters just mad their special snowflake Primarch didn't get picked to come back.

Sorry, GW picked their best written one, and the only that ever showed the ability to get gak done after the Heresy. Also, his model is rad, especially with the helmet.

Also, don't crap on Abaddon, he isn't a Primarch but he is the closest in power to one any Space Marine has ever come. He has the powers of Chaos to back him up as well.

I've seen almost no Girlyman hate in this thread... well, one or two "Aww I wished it was the Lion, oh well!" posts but that's about it.

People seem more upset about the (loyalist) Primarchs returning at all and with good reason.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 TheArmorOfContempt wrote:
Haters just mad their special snowflake Primarch didn't get picked to come back.

Sorry, GW picked their best written one, and the only that ever showed the ability to get gak done after the Heresy. Also, his model is rad, especially with the helmet.

Also, don't crap on Abaddon, he isn't a Primarch but he is the closest in power to one any Space Marine has ever come. He has the powers of Chaos to back him up as well.

I've seen almost no Girlyman hate in this thread... well, one or two "Aww I wished it was the Lion, oh well!" posts but that's about it.

People seem more upset about the (loyalist) Primarchs returning at all and with good reason.

Indeed. I absolutely didn't want to see any of the loyalist Primarchs returning.

Wow

These are incredibly awesome looking!

Like many others I am more interested in the lore than the models but darn they are pretty, especially the cypher model.

But wow who knew they would come out with some actually decent lore?

 Arbitrator wrote:

 TheArmorOfContempt wrote:
Haters just mad their special snowflake Primarch didn't get picked to come back.

Sorry, GW picked their best written one, and the only that ever showed the ability to get gak done after the Heresy. Also, his model is rad, especially with the helmet.

Also, don't crap on Abaddon, he isn't a Primarch but he is the closest in power to one any Space Marine has ever come. He has the powers of Chaos to back him up as well.

I've seen almost no Girlyman hate in this thread... well, one or two "Aww I wished it was the Lion, oh well!" posts but that's about it.

People seem more upset about the (loyalist) Primarchs returning at all and with good reason.

I don't know, the model hate seems unwarranted, I get not liking the new aesthetics but most of it seems pretty overboard. But I'm basically stirring gak.

I can however agree that I was not on board with the loyal Primarchs returning because it pretty much back seats guys like Calgar, Dante, and Grimnar. Even Abaddon, because the whole idea up to this point was that the Primarch's had their chance and failed. I would've preferred some sort of handing of the torch scenario where Calgar or one of the known chapter masters essentially is imbued with their Primarch's essence or something along those lines.

This all being said, people hating on Roboute is nothing new. He did receive arguably the best HH novel which portrayed him in the best possible light to his brothers. I can also say that once you get past the point of accepting Primarchs are back, then I'm at least happy my chapter gets first crack, which makes all the more sense since something like 2/3rds of Marines come from the Ultramarines, despite all the glory hogging the 1st founders get.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Lets be fair, the mini is awkward despite being impressive from a technical standard, but that face on his exposed head has to be one of the worst, softest sculpted faces GW has produced since the SM plastic scouts or even the catachan box.

Thank the Emperor then that he has a helmet!

Also all this hating on RG and few people have taken the time to address Grandmaster Generic of the 3rd Brotherhood.