The Gathering Storm Part III: Rise of the Primarch -- twitch broadcast 3.3.17

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**Desubot**

warboss wrote:
LightKing wrote:
One can still claim that Kaldor Draigo is more powerful than Roboute?

its going to be interesting to see if the Gray Knights yeild to Roboute's command

Dunno... but if Draigo is powerful enough to tag a daemon primarch's heart with his initials then maybe he could remove some of Guilliman's filigree that is so excessive it would make Fulgrim blush.

Question is do they even care?

i figure rowboat is mostly going to leave the emperium at large the way it is and just go bolster emperium secundous like he did last time

he probably knows he cant deal with the high counsel

**Kap'n Krump**

So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?

I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.

**Daedalus81**

TedNugent wrote:

Absolutely not, especially not in comparison to the Forgeworld sculptors.

First of all, it was clearly digitally drawn. It has no resemblance to the FW model. He isn't using a gladius. His face looks like it was stung by bees. The iconography and armor look like they were born out of 40k instead of being his traditional armor befitting of his personality descriptions in the novels. His pose is absurd and makes him look like an action figure, whereas he was dignified and poised like Julius Caesar in the FW model, again in line with his fluff and depictions in the HH novels. Where does the sword come from? The braziers and skulls are also out of place.

That model is also $80. This kit of 3 will cost less than that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kap'n Krump wrote:
So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?

I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.

Separate fluff and rules in your head, because they won't match up very often.

**Alpharius**

Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?

Or at least even try?

**Lord Kragan**

Kap'n Krump wrote:
So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?

I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.

For 400pts you've got 6s across the board minus WS(7) Attacks (4+1), Ld (10) and a nice 2+/4++

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?

Or at least even try?

Do we look like frenchment to you?

He will be ALWAYS Roberto Guillermo.

**warboss**

Alpharius wrote:
Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?

Or at least even try?

Try? No. Remember it? Yes. Until this thread, I had to google it every time.

**Jackal**

Keep in mind angrons the worst primarch though.
Seems since he was the first to be made, they went a bit too far on taming him down.

And most primarchs are over 400 too.
Horus being the most expensive and far more than 400.

They also don't all have 2+/4++
Some are slightly better, some are slightly worse.

They are all vastly different though.
Before magnus (30k) they were all relatively easy to kill.
AP2 is not lacking atall in 30k.
Magnus however is somewhat stronger if he can get invisibility.
He is just shy of 500 though.

Power wise, no 30k primarch is broken.
Anyone saying so needs to play 30k a lot more as they go down to shooting like most things.

Seems FW have tamed them down from the fluff to make them actually useable in games.

**warboss**

Lord Kragan wrote:

He will be ALWAYS Roberto Guillermo.

Now that I could remember. Of course, I'd have to model him with a mustache and mariachi hat (which, if one of the busier ones visually, would match his armor).

I'm not sure if that would step on primarch Alpharius' villainous toes though (even without the baby stapled to it).

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

LightKing wrote:
Can't one make the claim that Celestine might even have authority over Roboute since she is more powerful than him, i presume...or at least on his level?

You. I like you. I like the way you think. I would vote for you if GW writers were elected.

**TedNugent**

Kap'n Krump wrote:
So, how crazy OP are 30k primarchs - and rawbutt girlyman in particular? How would, say, 30k girlyman stats stack up with 40k magnus?

I'm just curious to get a hint of what a primarch's stats would be like and how crazy it would be in 40k. Because I heard someone say once that about all that kills a primarch is another primarch.

Imagine a monstrous creature statline on an independent character with the typical company master loadout.

If you're curious, Google it. His name's pronounced Rabootay btw.

He has some psychic protection in 30k but Magnus has insane psychic abilities, plus he's a daemon primarch, so he's upgraded over his old primarch form in 40k.

**deadairis**

Nice to see the Malazan Books of the Fallen style power-calls-power acceleration grip the universe.

**Mr Morden**

deadairis wrote:
Nice to see the Malazan Books of the Fallen style power-calls-power acceleration grip the universe.

great books - hard work in places but good

**Messiah**

FrothingMuppet wrote:
Some of what throws him off in my mind is his leg armour panels curve inwards on the lower leg rather than outwards like normal. That together with the spread legged pose and overly gaudy armour in general unbalance the whole thing.

I know I'll not be upgrading from the lovely (if less action poised) FW version.

Well, the suit is an Admech life support unit, so its not strange it has some admech aesthetics..

**Kap'n Krump**

Alpharius wrote:
Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?

Or at least even try?

It's not that it's terribly difficult, it's just that "rawbutt girlyman" is far more entertaining.

**Skylifter1000**

warboss wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:

He will be ALWAYS Roberto Guillermo.

Now that I could remember. Of course, I'd have to model him with a mustache and mariachi hat (which, if one of the busier ones visually, would match his armor).

I'm not sure if that would step on primarch Alpharius' villainous toes though (even without the baby stapled to it).

You do realize the name Roberto Guillermo is probably the Spanish name and has nothing to do with Mexico, right? So less mariachi hat, more torero outfit, if we want to do national stereotypes.

And just to add something to the actual discussion: I do not think Celestine holds any authority at all. She is just a saint, not a general. In Fall of Cadia, it was Greyfax who took command. And the only authority higher than an inquisitor is probably a High Lord of Terra... which Guillermo does happen to be. So no silly saint leading an army.

I want to draw a political analogy, but I'll restrain myself.

**Azreal13**

And you do understand that Spainish is the most widely spoken language in Mexico, maxing the comparison equally valid?

**Skylifter1000**

Azreal13 wrote:
And you do understand that Spainish is the most widely spoken language in Mexico, maxing the comparison equally valid?

No.

Well, obviously, I do know that Spanish is spoken in Mexico, too. But I find it odd to make a connection to a Mexican national stereotype based on that language - there are a lot of countries with Spanish as their official language.

That's like having a name in English (when it usually isn't) and immediately making the connection to an Australian national stereotype before thinking of an English stereotype. That makes very little sense to me.

Btw, I love how your profile pic looks like the guy is actually saying what you wrote in this case, looking down upon my assumed stupidity.

I don't mean this in any snarky way, I really smile at that.

**Azreal13**

Then you account for the fact that North America is the other side of the planet from Europe, and that for most US citizens, their exposure to Spainish speaking culture will come from South and Central America and voila, things aren't so mysterious.

**warboss**

Skylifter1000 wrote:

You do realize the name Roberto Guillermo is probably the Spanish name and has nothing to do with Mexico, right? So less mariachi hat, more torero outfit, if we want to do national stereotypes.

Fun fact... Spain isn't the only country that has Spanish as it's official language! Mexico, home of many impressive mustaches as well as mariachi bands, is one of them! In any case, it was a joke... you have those in Germany, right??!?!

Spoiler:

**Skylifter1000**

Azreal13 wrote:Then you account for the fact that North America is the other side of the planet from Europe, and that for most US citizens, their exposure to Spainish speaking culture will come from South and Central America and voila, things aren't so mysterious.

I know, but you know... Netherlands First and so on. They need to learn that eurocentrism is the only true religion.

Okay, I know this is going too far now.

warboss wrote:
Skylifter1000 wrote:

You do realize the name Roberto Guillermo is probably the Spanish name and has nothing to do with Mexico, right? So less mariachi hat, more torero outfit, if we want to do national stereotypes.

Fun fact... Spain isn't the only country that has Spanish as it's official language! Mexico, home of many impressive mustaches as well as mariachi bands, is one of them! In any case, it was a joke... you have those in Germany, right??!?!

Spoiler:

How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb?

Spoiler:

**Lord Kragan**

Azreal13 wrote:
And you do understand that Spainish is the most widely spoken language in Mexico, maxing the comparison equally valid?

And that a mariachi hat is more funny than a torero hat or even the Tricornio of some of our policement... though it would be funny to model him with this and with the bolter arm risen.

SE SIENTEN, COÑO!

**insaniak**

So, how about that topic, eh?

**Yodhrin**

Alpharius wrote:
Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?

Or at least even try?

I dunno, Primarch name spelling is hard Alphonso

Seriously it's just a joke based on the completely overwrought pronunciation of his name they use on the BL audiodramas.

**Skylifter1000**

Yodhrin wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Is it really that hard to remember how to spell "Roboute Guilliman"?

Or at least even try?

I dunno, Primarch name spelling is hard Alphonso

Seriously it's just a joke based on the completely overwrought pronunciation of his name they use on the BL audiodramas.

It actually was a joke even before that, because it wasn't the same in all languages. Leman Russ is always Leman Russ, but Roboute Guilliman was Roboute Guillaume in German, for example. That was at a time when many player were still using the English books in Germany, so there was a lot of confusion how his name was actually spelled.

**eedden**

Vorian wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.

Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.

I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.

GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.

I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.

Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.

If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.

For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice

This, and the fact that this happens with every model released.

**Yodhrin**

eedden wrote:
Vorian wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.

Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.

I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.

GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.

I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.

Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.

If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.

For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice

This, and the fact that this happens with every model released.

You mean people have opinions about every single release? No, that can't be right, surely everyone is only allowed to have one or at most two opinions a year. Letting everyone have an opinion about everything would just be lunacy.

**Ruin**

Yodhrin wrote:
eedden wrote:
Vorian wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Simple: aesthetics are a personal thing.

Personally I think he looks horribly done, but that's something I see with more and more digital sculpts (where I believe the majority of people doing them probably have much less of a genuine art background and are simply good on the computer). To me the figure looks like someone just opened up a 3D program and threw a veritable bucket of details at a model with little consideration for the end result.

I'm not sure why differing opinions are difficult for people to contemplate. Of course the most common response is calling someone who disagrees with you a "hater" which is basically the level of retort of a four year old child - because the person would rather not debate/discuss or acknowledge differing opinions.

GW's been on a role lately, but I don't like everything they've done. I don't care for the recent Eldar triad or this Primarch...but I love almost all of their Tzeentch releases, etc. An opinion is not right, or wrong...it's just an opinion. The above Primarch screams "crank it from 11 to 13!" or what a Primarch might look like if you asked my nine year old nephew to design one.

I think the problem is more that people state their opinions as of they are facts. As of you looking something is factually incorrect and you're an idiot for doing so.

Look at the long lists of people dissecting RG as if they are fine art critics dissecting a masterpiece.

If you mock something someone likes, often without basis, you're going to irritate them. Look at your last line, you don't like it but you have decided to insinuate that it's designed by a 9 yr old, that it's cranked from 11 to 13! ... that's why people get irritated and the discussion descends into the schoolyard.

For the record I think the proportions look off too, I'm sure it will have some kind of reasoning with it being a supporting thing but it isn't my cup of tea - so it's not just that I'm calling you a hater because you criticised my Primarch of choice

This, and the fact that this happens with every model released.

You mean people have opinions about every single release? No, that can't be right, surely everyone is only allowed to have one or at most two opinions a year. Letting everyone have an opinion about everything would just be lunacy.

You need to get yourself one of those opinion minions. Lets you put out at least a dozen more a year.

**Elbows**

New 40K Special Rule?

I Opine All the Things (IOATT) +5 Pts.

Once per turn your model may criticize the sculpting work on one enemy unit within 8". The targeted unit must immediately make a Leadership test or it is thrown in the trash.

PS: I stand by my harsh criticism of the Gullyman figure, and it is not without basis. As you said...it's an opinion. I did not state it was fact (quite the opposite). I never stated anyone had to deliver their opinion nicely or with flowery words. If I believe the figure to look like garbage, then so be it. If it just has a weird helmet or shoulder pad...then I'd say so. I'm not here to concern myself with how someone takes my opinion.

**Alpharius**

RULE #2 is STAY ON TOPIC.

Complaining about complaints, opinions about opinions, etc.?

Not really (usually) ON TOPIC.

**OgreChubbs**

Elbows wrote:
New 40K Special Rule?

I Opine All the Things (IOATT) +5 Pts.

Once per turn your model may criticize the sculpting work on one enemy unit within 8". The targeted unit must immediately make a Leadership test or it is thrown in the trash.

PS: I stand by my harsh criticism of the Gullyman figure, and it is not without basis. As you said...it's an opinion. I did not state it was fact (quite the opposite). I never stated anyone had to deliver their opinion nicely or with flowery words. If I believe the figure to look like garbage, then so be it. If it just has a weird helmet or shoulder pad...then I'd say so. I'm not here to concern myself with how someone takes my opinion.

Stating your opnion does actually concer you or you would never of gave one you want people to know how you feel or you would of said nothing but to yourself. So do not try to moral high ground people.

But the gillyman model is bad main reasons being

Too big WAY to big, he could of used the land raider as a seat to get to the battle.
His legs connect to his sides like a lizard not like a mammal
He is for some reason trying to do the splits.
His weist is turned to a un-natural angle as tho his weist was like a owls neck it just twirls on the spot.
His head looks swollen the features are off.
His fire sword while in ideal is cool is pointless, having a sword that can heat up to help the cutting edge cool. A sword that is set on fire blinds you while you swing it.