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 Prometheum5 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
For those who've read the rules or, better yet, played the game, do the rules seem conducive to adding "Epic" style infantry and tanks at a later date or are they laser focused on Titans to the detriment of others potential unit types? I don't have much interest in AT but the idea of playing Epic 40k intrigues me.

You're not going to play full Epic with infantry and manage Titans with the level of rules presented in AT. Red posted above a quote from the rulebook where they've future-proofed in the ability for the current rules to refer to 'Units' beyond Titans and Knight Banners, so maybe Superheavy tanks in the future, but I don't think infantry and regular armor are on the same level.

I think if they left it with just the Basic rules and stripped out the Advanced and Optional rules it wouldn't be that hard to add smaller vehicles in the future with infantry being an expansion on those rules.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
For those who've read the rules or, better yet, played the game, do the rules seem conducive to adding "Epic" style infantry and tanks at a later date or are they laser focused on Titans to the detriment of others potential unit types? I don't have much interest in AT but the idea of playing Epic 40k intrigues me.

You're not going to play full Epic with infantry and manage Titans with the level of rules presented in AT. Red posted above a quote from the rulebook where they've future-proofed in the ability for the current rules to refer to 'Units' beyond Titans and Knight Banners, so maybe Superheavy tanks in the future, but I don't think infantry and regular armor are on the same level.

TBH I think anything lesser then a bane blade would basicly just be useless as something other then cannon fodder.

IMHO going full on epic would proably force them to simplify the game a fair bit. not saying they can't just that with the way record sheets etc are handled, going full epic might be a headache

A lot of people are saying this, but from what I've seen/read the game doesn't look all that complicated, even with 'managing' the titans (which is just a few dicerolls in the cleanup phase anyway). I don't think adding in armoured and infantry units would add all that much complexity or make the game unmanageable, it would just run longer (which isn't something that would bother me really).

Changes the nature of the game though.

Knights are dangerous, because they don’t have to worry about limited manouevres, but need to use that to be of real use.

Using these rules with infantry would be like turrets becoming widely available in X-Wing. It’d just strip out a huge part of the game’s tactical challenge.

 Imateria wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
For those who've read the rules or, better yet, played the game, do the rules seem conducive to adding "Epic" style infantry and tanks at a later date or are they laser focused on Titans to the detriment of others potential unit types? I don't have much interest in AT but the idea of playing Epic 40k intrigues me.

You're not going to play full Epic with infantry and manage Titans with the level of rules presented in AT. Red posted above a quote from the rulebook where they've future-proofed in the ability for the current rules to refer to 'Units' beyond Titans and Knight Banners, so maybe Superheavy tanks in the future, but I don't think infantry and regular armor are on the same level.

I think if they left it with just the Basic rules and stripped out the Advanced and Optional rules it wouldn't be that hard to add smaller vehicles in the future with infantry being an expansion on those rules.

I was expecting 8th edition on a smaller scale with big robots. This does appear to be not what they've made so at this point this has become such a hard pass for me its not even funny. Weapon Arcs? Leave that nonsense in 7th edition where it belonged!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Changes the nature of the game though.

Knights are dangerous, because they don’t have to worry about limited manouevres, but need to use that to be of real use.

Using these rules with infantry would be like turrets becoming widely available in X-Wing. It’d just strip out a huge part of the game’s tactical challenge.

Why couldn't they just supply a new set of Epic Rules with the launch of the new units? (answer: They could but this is GW so they will make you re-buy everything again in a slightly different scale )
Seriously though, just release a new rulebook and let us use everything we've purchased up to that point. Then sell a bunch of new epic scale miniatures.
1. They would sell a ton of the previously made units for AT, to the players that were waiting on Epic. (Great for them because high return on all of these previously made molds, etc.)
2. Those of us who already bought into AT would be happy that we now could expand the game and get more use out of our models. (Great for them because now they highly increase the chances of AT players adopting into a new line of miniatures in addition to those who just wanted Epic)
3. They would sell a ton of new models that fit into the Epic line.

Everybody's happy. Win/win. Next.

 Togusa wrote:
I was expecting 8th edition on a smaller scale with big robots... Weapon Arcs? Leave that nonsense in 7th edition where it belonged!

puzzledust wrote:

Why couldn't they just supply a new set of Epic Rules with the launch of the new units? (answer: They could but this is GW so they will make you re-buy everything again in a slightly different scale )

This is a new edition of Adeptus Titanicus, not a new edition of Epic. AT was always about managing a small number of units in detail. It was after all created as a competitor to Battletech.

I have no doubt that should this prove sufficiently popular we'll see the same approach as the first time around; a gradual increase in the range of available units with new rules for AT. Then eventually once the model range has enough depth, there will be with a new ruleset that has less emphasis on Titans and more on other units.

 xttz wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
I was expecting 8th edition on a smaller scale with big robots... Weapon Arcs? Leave that nonsense in 7th edition where it belonged!

puzzledust wrote:

Why couldn't they just supply a new set of Epic Rules with the launch of the new units? (answer: They could but this is GW so they will make you re-buy everything again in a slightly different scale )

This is a new edition of Adeptus Titanicus, not a new edition of Epic. AT was always about managing a small number of units in detail. It was after all created as a competitor to Battletech.

I have no doubt that should this prove sufficiently popular we'll see the same approach as the first time around; a gradual increase in the range of available units with new rules for AT. Then eventually once the model range has enough depth, there will be with a new ruleset that has less emphasis on Titans and more on other units.

I think you missed my point. I'm basically saying the same thing. "Why can't they release new rules with the launch of new Epic miniatures down the line?" Which according to you is what they did before.

Why would they bother doing that for stuff they stopped selling over a decade ago?

If they have new stuff to sell, they'll make rules for it

It's taken them two years to sculpt four miniatures. How much longer would it take, do you think, for them to do an entire Epic range?

All of which misses the main point; The game they wanted to publish was not Epic - it was Adeptus Titanicus.

puzzledust wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Changes the nature of the game though.

Knights are dangerous, because they don’t have to worry about limited manouevres, but need to use that to be of real use.

Using these rules with infantry would be like turrets becoming widely available in X-Wing. It’d just strip out a huge part of the game’s tactical challenge.

Why couldn't they just supply a new set of Epic Rules with the launch of the new units? (answer: They could but this is GW so they will make you re-buy everything again in a slightly different scale )
Seriously though, just release a new rulebook and let us use everything we've purchased up to that point. Then sell a bunch of new epic scale miniatures.
1. They would sell a ton of the previously made units for AT, to the players that were waiting on Epic. (Great for them because high return on all of these previously made molds, etc.)
2. Those of us who already bought into AT would be happy that we now could expand the game and get more use out of our models. (Great for them because now they highly increase the chances of AT players adopting into a new line of miniatures in addition to those who just wanted Epic)
3. They would sell a ton of new models that fit into the Epic line.

Everybody's happy. Win/win. Next.

Specialist Games remain a risky product.

Bloodbowl and Necromunda were well received, but haven’t been out long enough to show staying power.

Epic? Unlike other Specialist Games, that’s quite a development intensive game. You need different kinds of infantry (at least matching those in 40k), same with Tanks, Flyers and Titans. That all costs money.

Adeptus Titanicus? Three core kits. Warlord, Reaver and Warhound. Call it nine sprues in total, 10 counting the Knights. Investment wise, that’s far more restrained, and is easily expanded upon with resin add ons.

If the game fails to take off, or maintain sales, your investment is suitably limited, compared to churning out different types of models for four or five different armies (for Heresy Era, not 40k). Indeed, with that restraint, it may prove difficult to actually not make some kind of return on said Investment.

And if it takes off? Rinse and repeat for Orks and Eldar.

If that shows sales being maintained, then you can look at introducing Super Heavies and assorted Tanks, keeping with the armoured theme, and providing an alternative to Knights, encouraging The Big Boys to have to vary their weapon selection to deal with different potential threats.

Then, then can come Infantry, either as a specific expansion, or a second game system which happens to share models.

So, is the problem that, even after years of talking about Adeptus Titanicus, years of rules previews, interviews with James Hewitt and Forge World, public playtests, and MORE, there are some people who are upset that the game is EXACTLY what was previewed all along, and not something else completely?

I would enjoy seeing super heavy tanks being represented in AT, but I have no desire to be pushing around stands of infantry in the game (or their associated transports). I’m iffy about some of the lesser tanks - Leman Russes, Whirlwinds and the like (though I could see Deathstrikes being useful). Anything where I’m pushing around five models or so to deal one wound to a Titan just isn’t something I’m interested in fielding in this game.

When seeing the command terminal for knights I believe adding super heavy tanks or even squadrons of lesser tanks would be quite easy to do, but I am convinced they would be and remain strictly optional unit types. The focus of AT is on titans after all.

Perhaps they could a compromise and do a run of metal Epic vehicles like they’ve done with the other one-time run of metal figures for those who want the models (infantry can be e-bayed easily enough).

As far as rules, I’m sure the community could come up with something - or GW could simply repost the Epic rules on their site like they used to do years ago for those who want to go that route, and let the community figure out how to mix/match old Epic and new AT.

 judgedoug wrote:
So, is the problem that, even after years of talking about Adeptus Titanicus, years of rules previews, interviews with James Hewitt and Forge World, public playtests, and MORE, there are some people who are upset that the game is EXACTLY what was previewed all along, and not something else completely?

No, there's no problem at all, just people expressing a preference or discussing ways the game could expand in the future.

EDIT: Wait nvm, he's replied again. For those a few pages back wondering about Knights, James confirmed over on FB that the intended way to deal with it is Dice*Total number of weapon. So a Banner of three Knights each with two Battle Cannons would put out 12 shots in each Combat Phase.

 Togusa wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
For those who've read the rules or, better yet, played the game, do the rules seem conducive to adding "Epic" style infantry and tanks at a later date or are they laser focused on Titans to the detriment of others potential unit types? I don't have much interest in AT but the idea of playing Epic 40k intrigues me.

You're not going to play full Epic with infantry and manage Titans with the level of rules presented in AT. Red posted above a quote from the rulebook where they've future-proofed in the ability for the current rules to refer to 'Units' beyond Titans and Knight Banners, so maybe Superheavy tanks in the future, but I don't think infantry and regular armor are on the same level.

I think if they left it with just the Basic rules and stripped out the Advanced and Optional rules it wouldn't be that hard to add smaller vehicles in the future with infantry being an expansion on those rules.

I was expecting 8th edition on a smaller scale with big robots. This does appear to be not what they've made so at this point this has become such a hard pass for me its not even funny. Weapon Arcs? Leave that nonsense in 7th edition where it belonged!

That was never what this game was going to be though, a cursery glance at any of the information we've had on it over the last 2 years would have told you that. With 8th ed 40K rules at this scale the game would be completely devoid of any depth or interest, there's just not enough on the table for those rules to work.

Honestly...if you want 8th edition, just buy AT and run it with 8th edition 40K rules, swap inches over to CM and just do that. Problem solved. Easy way to run an "apocalypse" style game. I would say "on the cheap", but there appears to be nothing cheap about AT.

 Elbows wrote:
Honestly...if you want 8th edition, just buy AT and run it with 8th edition 40K rules, swap inches over to CM and just do that. Problem solved. Easy way to run an "apocalypse" style game. I would say "on the cheap", but there appears to be nothing cheap about AT.

A full maniple will still cost me only a third of what a 40K army at 2000pts will. As cheap as Kill Team and Necromunda? No, and it was never going to be remotely like that.

It's also about 8% the price of playing AT in 28mm scale.

Vorian wrote:
Why would they bother doing that for stuff they stopped selling over a decade ago?

If they have new stuff to sell, they'll make rules for it

To make money? They didn#t stop because they didn't sell. They outsold their exptations(enough to justify production of lots of new models) by 400%...

Just chill folks.

If Titanicus proves it can stand on its own two feet, we’re likely to get full blown Epic in time.

For now, just enjoy your red hot Titan on Titan action!

If anything will hurt this game it's a lack of players. The game seems to have done okay in europe but in the states...not too confident about that. I think I was the only one at my lgs to buy in and I got the rules box, not the crazy expensive big one.

 Stormonu wrote:
Perhaps they could a compromise and do a run of metal Epic vehicles...

You should be able to find plenty on eBay.

 Thargrim wrote:
If anything will hurt this game it's a lack of players. The game seems to have done okay in europe but in the states...not too confident about that. I think I was the only one at my lgs to buy in and I got the rules box, not the crazy expensive big one.

There were seven of us at my FLGS that got GME boxes and I don't think any of us knew the others were doing it since I don't think most of us know each other, lol. Epic was the best game system GW ever put out IMHO. I hope AT does well enough that it remains supported and they don't start doing the stupid stuff they did in 40K with named characters, etc.

tneva82 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
Why would they bother doing that for stuff they stopped selling over a decade ago?

If they have new stuff to sell, they'll make rules for it

To make money? They didn#t stop because they didn't sell. They outsold their exptations(enough to justify production of lots of new models) by 400%...

That would explain why it would make sense to make new epic models and release rules for them. It wouldn't explain why they would release rules now to use old models with.

 Thargrim wrote:
If anything will hurt this game it's a lack of players. The game seems to have done okay in europe but in the states...not too confident about that. I think I was the only one at my lgs to buy in and I got the rules box, not the crazy expensive big one.

My flgs had apparently already sold out on Saturday.

Is this the place to discuss tactics? I can't see a tactics/list discussion thread (and dont have time/experiance to create and admin one). Played my first game last night and it was AMAZING! I have many list idea's and tactics to discuss...but no where to do it!

AccidentalCultist wrote:
Is this the place to discuss tactics? I can't see a tactics/list discussion thread (and dont have time/experiance to create and admin one). Played my first game last night and it was AMAZING! I have many list idea's and tactics to discuss...but no where to do it!

I think you can go there to discuss tactics https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/762459.page

You can also create a new topic in the Games Workshop Board Games & Specialist/Legacy Games sub-forum https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/57.page

 Breotan wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Perhaps they could a compromise and do a run of metal Epic vehicles...

You should be able to find plenty on eBay.

Yeah, but prices fluctuate wildly, as does scarcity on e-bay. If GW did a Made to Order, there's a good chance you wouldn't have to pay collector's price for it.

In other news, it turns out both of my FLGS did not order ANY Titanicus stuff - I was told it was "preorder only" (and since neither one of them offer a discount, I didn't preorder from them nor did apparently anyone else in the area, though I'd would have liked to pick up some extra knights, dice or whatnot), so I agree I don't think it was flying off the shelves in the US apparently like in the UK. Even Miniature Market took until today to sell out of the GME set, and still appears to have tons of the other components available.

Still waiting for my rules set and knights to show up, though. Deciding how I want to do the Reaver and Warhound - pay extra for earlier availability, or save a little and wait a week or two for it to show up... :(

 Stormonu wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Perhaps they could a compromise and do a run of metal Epic vehicles...

You should be able to find plenty on eBay.

Yeah, but prices fluctuate wildly, as does scarcity on e-bay. If GW did a Made to Order, there's a good chance you wouldn't have to pay collector's price for it.

In other news, it turns out both of my FLGS did not order ANY Titanicus stuff - I was told it was "preorder only" (and since neither one of them offer a discount, I didn't preorder from them nor did apparently anyone else in the area, though I'd would have liked to pick up some extra knights, dice or whatnot), so I agree I don't think it was flying off the shelves in the US apparently like in the UK. Even Miniature Market took until today to sell out of the GME set, and still appears to have tons of the other components available.

Still waiting for my rules set and knights to show up, though. Deciding how I want to do the Reaver and Warhound - pay extra for earlier availability, or save a little and wait a week or two for it to show up... :(

Your FLGS not offering any kind of discount would probably explain why nobody bought from them.