Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If they do release xenos titans, especially Eldar ones, I’d instantly start playing this. I probably will still look at getting into it early on, if I am convinced that there will be enough variety in available setups and armies to make for an interesting and diverse game play.

According to the designers of the terrain, this is only the very first wave of it. I actually asked about terrain options and the guy told me that they have designs for steeples, proper roofs, and other stuff too. But getting stuff tooled for plastic is always about priorities. And first priority was the three main Titans, and the knights.

As for the guns on the Warlord, sprue constraints meant that they had to choose between two more guns or four extra shoulder plates for different designs.
Most of the remaining weapons, as well as some new ones, are apparently already tooled. They will be out at a later date, either as a clampack or (more likely) in resin upgrade sets.

I couldn't get a straight answer out of them, when it got to whether the cerastus types or the porphyrion would be plastic or if they would remain in the realm of resin.
They did say that they are aware that many people won't get the resin stuff, whether from difficulty of buying or working with it, so they want to make as much as they can from plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and interestingly, the two smaller Titans were merry hell to convert into CG designs, since they were originally handmade, with the minimal casting and mastering faults that this brings. So the designer set about the job with callipers and measuring tape, and slowly but surely converted everything into CG.

The difficulty of this task, is also why the Warhound is last in line, and wasn't ready to show off at the event.

One guy did all the designs for the Titans and Knights. I remembered to congratulate him on a bl**dy good job at the event! ;-)

That seems like an odd way to go about the conversion process, given they could have had a relatively accurate CG model by putting it through photogrammetry with a moderately priced DSLR camera rather than paying a guy a salary to manually measure everything.

I wish there was Skitarii infanry. I don't know what they would do in the game, but they would be great for showing the scale.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you not mean Runtbots?

Tin boys were in Ere We Go or Freebooterz I think - They were Ork robots, made to resemble Marines.

 Yodhrin wrote:
That seems like an odd way to go about the conversion process, given they could have had a relatively accurate CG model by putting it through photogrammetry with a moderately priced DSLR camera rather than paying a guy a salary to manually measure everything.

Might be that the designer doesn't have photogrammetry skills or software (I've no idea if that would be standard software with 3D design or an extra). Sometimes its easier to go with what you know than reskill. Photographically GW wouldn't be limited in the least (they've even got at least one medium format camera so photography quality wouldn't be a problem).

 Xanthos wrote:
According to the designers of the terrain, this is only the very first wave of it. I actually asked about terrain options and the guy told me that they have designs for steeples, proper roofs, and other stuff too. But getting stuff tooled for plastic is always about priorities. And first priority was the three main Titans, and the knights.

As for the guns on the Warlord, sprue constraints meant that they had to choose between two more guns or four extra shoulder plates for different designs.
Most of the remaining weapons, as well as some new ones, are apparently already tooled. They will be out at a later date, either as a clampack or (more likely) in resin upgrade sets.

I couldn't get a straight answer out of them, when it got to whether the cerastus types or the porphyrion would be plastic or if they would remain in the realm of resin.
They did say that they are aware that many people won't get the resin stuff, whether from difficulty of buying or working with it, so they want to make as much as they can from plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and interestingly, the two smaller Titans were merry hell to convert into CG designs, since they were originally handmade, with the minimal casting and mastering faults that this brings. So the designer set about the job with callipers and measuring tape, and slowly but surely converted everything into CG.

The difficulty of this task, is also why the Warhound is last in line, and wasn't ready to show off at the event.

One guy did all the designs for the Titans and Knights. I remembered to congratulate him on a bl**dy good job at the event! ;-)

Psi-Titans? Was there anything on those coming to the game?

 Slinky wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you not mean Runtbots?

Tin boys were in Ere We Go or Freebooterz I think - They were Ork robots, made to resemble Marines.

Tinboyz - I have two of them still - an Eldar and a Marine - they had bombs inside them

There was also Runtbotz. Crude Robots wot protected Snots and Grots.

Ive budgeted a few hundred toward a new table. Can't wait to order those tiles and hack them apart

 Togusa wrote:
Psi-Titans? Was there anything on those coming to the game?

I'm going to play Legio Audax, so it's going to be all Warhound titans for me.

But if they make the parts and rules for an Ordo Sinister Psi-Titan...yeah, that would be a Warlord I'd be interested in.

Maybe I missed it, but did they say when this will be released?

Gonna be tough to resist...

 Necros wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but did they say when this will be released?

Gonna be tough to resist...

August is what the video says.

 Overread wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
That seems like an odd way to go about the conversion process, given they could have had a relatively accurate CG model by putting it through photogrammetry with a moderately priced DSLR camera rather than paying a guy a salary to manually measure everything.

Might be that the designer doesn't have photogrammetry skills or software (I've no idea if that would be standard software with 3D design or an extra). Sometimes its easier to go with what you know than reskill. Photographically GW wouldn't be limited in the least (they've even got at least one medium format camera so photography quality wouldn't be a problem).

But even if they had to bring someone in for the job, it would have taken like, a day or two and cost a lot less.

So....do knight get a control board or that's a titan-only thing?

 Yodhrin wrote:

But even if they had to bring someone in for the job, it would have taken like, a day or two and cost a lot less.

Can I ask what experience you have with the process? GW seems to be a fairly tight ship when it comes to spending it's dough on frivolous things, a dude taking months to meticulously measure a titan vs a day with a camera does seem odd if it's as simple as you say.

Chopstick wrote:
So....do knight get a control board or that's a titan-only thing?

Aye, they do. From battle bunnies:

 gorgon wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Psi-Titans? Was there anything on those coming to the game?

I'm going to play Legio Audax, so it's going to be all Warhound titans for me.

But if they make the parts and rules for an Ordo Sinister Psi-Titan...yeah, that would be a Warlord I'd be interested in.

I love the idea of God-Machines hurling warpfire at each other!

What rough height is a warlord again? Compared to a 40k model, I can't be bothered scrolling through the pages .

 xttz wrote:
Debating scale in Epic is a pointless exercise. Many of the design decisions were more a result of the miniature design/production technology available at the time than any attempt at accurate replication of the fluff.

If you have any doubt about that statement, just look here:
https://imgur.com/a/xMLOTCv

I don't think that proves what you think it does. That model isn't "inaccurately describing the fluff", because it was the only depiction of a Trygon for a decade - there wasn't something else you could point to and say "actually, it should be like this"; if anything, the plastic kit for 40k is the inaccurate one.

As for stompas, in 1st edition they mounted two battlecannon, an autocannon and two power fields. They may have been shorter than an Imperial Knight Paladin, but they were equal to two of them in a fight. in 2nd edition they were downgraded to vehicles and didn't get the ability to ignore being pinned in combat like Knights and super-heavy tanks. Still, they're borderline, so making them Ork Knight-equivalents seems about right.

Me. Waiting for August. Right now.

It's going to be a VERY long wait.

Shoot, I probably have to wait until October to get all my Warhounds.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

But even if they had to bring someone in for the job, it would have taken like, a day or two and cost a lot less.

Can I ask what experience you have with the process? GW seems to be a fairly tight ship when it comes to spending it's dough on frivolous things, a dude taking months to meticulously measure a titan vs a day with a camera does seem odd if it's as simple as you say.

Just what I've learned while researching 3D printing to see if it was feasible - for me it isn't since I don't have an appropriate camera, the right software, and a proper photo studio setup, but for GW or a professional? It's a pretty straightforward process, the software does the heavy lifting so long as you have adequate images. What you get isn't a perfect scan of course, but if they ran all the parts through it in sub-assemblies it should result in a broadly accurate(ie, shapes would all be correct, detailing might need tweaked, there might be an occasional artifact caused by a rogue shadow on a pic or the like to fix) CG model with most of the proportional work already done. That's why the "bloke with calipers" remark struck me as so weird.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey, at least you weren't planning to build a Knight Household, I'll probably have dentures by the time they have the classes needed to be capable of taking on Titans alone.

 Yodhrin wrote:
That seems like an odd way to go about the conversion process, given they could have had a relatively accurate CG model by putting it through photogrammetry with a moderately priced DSLR camera rather than paying a guy a salary to manually measure everything.

IMO, it's because that method produces a really messy mesh result which would more than likely prove to create more work in the long-run. You wouldn't want to produce tooled molds off that kind of model, and cleaning up all the bad geometry would then take more time than if you'd started from scratch to begin with. It's one of those situations where the "shortcut" turns out to be a bigger headache than if you'd just done it properly the first time.

EDIT: I'd also be quite surprised if all of the proportions are 100% accurate to the 28mm scale models anyway. Usually small-scale detail gets "enhanced" to aid visiability and production reasons—you're modifying detail in order for hard plastic model production methods to function properly with it. Again, all of that means that a scan is less helpful.

 Brother Xeones wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
That seems like an odd way to go about the conversion process, given they could have had a relatively accurate CG model by putting it through photogrammetry with a moderately priced DSLR camera rather than paying a guy a salary to manually measure everything.

IMO, it's because that method produces a really messy mesh result which would more than likely prove to create more work in the long-run. You wouldn't want to produce tooled molds off that kind of model, and cleaning up all the bad geometry would then take more time than if you'd started from scratch to begin with. It's one of those situations where the "shortcut" turns out to be a bigger headache than if you'd just done it properly the first time.

EDIT: I'd also be quite surprised if all of the proportions are 100% accurate to the 28mm scale models anyway. Usually small-scale detail gets "enhanced" to aid visiability and production reasons—you're modifying detail in order for hard plastic model production methods to function properly with it. Again, all of that means that a scan is less helpful.

Not these days. If you can grab a 3D asset from a videogame and run it through software to "solidify" it sufficiently that with a couple of tweaks it can be 3D printed, I don't see why the same process couldn't apply to a model sourced through photogrammetry. I really do struggle to see how fixing any small errors on the result of that would be more work than painstakingly hand-measuring every part and how every part relates to every other part in order to construct a 3D model from scratch.

I mean, we're at the stage now where you can stick a device on your iPad and use an app to create perfectly serviceable 3D copies of real world objects, so surely a proper professional setup can manage better results than that?

Stereolithography doesn't have the lines like traditional 3d printing. also metrology is very nifty tech, but the scanners are very expensive and usually if you're not in a very high tech area finding someone to do the actual scan can prove difficult. one thing that does surprise me is that they wouldn't have already invested in one. last time I looked the least expensive one was $20k and true professional level somewhere in the $100k ish range.

I just can't wait till we have the game in hand and actually playing it.

Grand Master Edition and a couple more warhounds & knights shall be mine.

I do hope that they'll expand into 40k and xenos. epic should stay separate, but be able to use titanic stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I thought we all agreed we would never bring up the Epic 40K Titans.

*shudder*

Nah, the Eldar Phantom titan was a really good model to use as a 40k-scale Necron dread-construct. I bought three of them for just that! You just have to completely ignore that they are in any way intended to represent the beautiful titans that predated them by several years. Doubly so for the Revenants and their feet that looked like they were roller skating on Rhinos.

 Overread wrote:
This makes me want to dig out my super old GW catalogue which has a load of knight and titan products in it!

Do it, scan it, post it

Bummed to see that the Warhound sculpt wasn't there, despite it apparently releasing later. It would be good to know what weapons they had settled on including on the sprue.

The display tables have me worried that the game will feature too many Warlords. Unless they are going to go bigger with an Imperator, it is a little weird to see the biggest boy around in so many numbers. Hopefully proper games will see more Reavers/Warhounds.