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 DarknessEternal wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
I am toying with an idea of running several Swooping Hawk units together. They can work together to haywire vehicles and/or mow down units with weight of fire. If they shoot a unit down, the others skyleap out. If they can survive fine after, keep them about to weaken/kill a unit (with outside help if necessary) and then jumping out until next turn.

This is a nice idea unique to Ynnari. The only real problem is Hawks can't mow down units with weight of fire. There aren't many armies that consist of small model count easy to kill units, which is all they can kill with their guns. But if you're fighting Genestealer Cults, it'd work.

And they cannot Skyleap out if they arrived that turn, although it would be interest to run 3 units together and if one of them dies in the opponents turn, the other 2 units could indeed Skyleap off the board, and have them return in your following turn.
It would be fun, but I don't see it winning games (outside of capturing objectives, which Eldar have no problem doing with other units)

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 Galef wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Goobi2 wrote:
I am toying with an idea of running several Swooping Hawk units together. They can work together to haywire vehicles and/or mow down units with weight of fire. If they shoot a unit down, the others skyleap out. If they can survive fine after, keep them about to weaken/kill a unit (with outside help if necessary) and then jumping out until next turn.

This is a nice idea unique to Ynnari. The only real problem is Hawks can't mow down units with weight of fire. There aren't many armies that consist of small model count easy to kill units, which is all they can kill with their guns. But if you're fighting Genestealer Cults, it'd work.

And they cannot Skyleap out if they arrived that turn, although it would be interest to run 3 units together and if one of them dies in the opponents turn, the other 2 units could indeed Skyleap off the board, and have them return in your following turn.
It would be fun, but I don't see it winning games (outside of capturing objectives, which Eldar have no problem doing with other units)

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Yeah, I had meant if the enemy shot a unit down the others could skyleap.

But between 3 large ignore cover blasts, several (basically) storm bolter shots, and haywire that is a lot of potential damage to do. They just need to work together all the time.

And though it slightly goes against the hit and run strategy I am advocating, the Soulburst movement could really help bring down flying vehicles. Catching a flyer within 18" of Hawks can be tricky, but within 36" is much easier (assuming you have a unit to spring board off of).

Maybe pair the hawks with some scourges armed with carbines? The scourges can't skyleap but they CAN dish out a ton of fire, to help mow down that unit and trigger the burst. If you have say 3 hawks and 2 scourges, they all land and fire. Scourge 1 kills unit triggering (assuming you have 2 other units someplace) a second round of shooting for scourge 1 and 2. other players turn - they kill one of the hawks or scourges. You can then soulburst and skyleap 2 of the hawks.

One trick pony. But scourges pair well astheticly and can provide nice extra weight of fire without costing a ton.

I have an interesting question, if a ynarri unit kills another unit in assault it can soulburst. Normally if it assaulted into combat it wouldn't be able to attack because its initiative step has already passed. But what if you assault through cover against something with defensive grenades and you don't have assault grenades. Would you then get to attack at I1?

Similarly if a Autarch takes a regular weapon like a laser lance and a power axe as a second weapon (he can take up to two weapons) can he attack at his normal initiative, wipe out a unit and then charge into another unit and attack with his power axe at I1?

 lambsandlions wrote:
I have an interesting question, if a ynarri unit kills another unit in assault it can soulburst. Normally if it assaulted into combat it wouldn't be able to attack because its initiative step has already passed. But what if you assault through cover against something with defensive grenades and you don't have assault grenades. Would you then get to attack at I1?

Similarly if a Autarch takes a regular weapon like a laser lance and a power axe as a second weapon (he can take up to two weapons) can he attack at his normal initiative, wipe out a unit and then charge into another unit and attack with his power axe at I1?

Yes.

And these are two incredibly amazing ideas.

I played my first game this past weekend using the Yncarne and Visarch in a Craftworld CAD and I had a question about using soulburst with the Yncarne.

The way we played it, after the Yncarne destroyed a unit in CC, he consolidated, than got his free action from SfD. Is this incorrect? Does he not get to consolidate and only gets the free soulburst action, or did we play this correctly.

I must say it really helped him to move across the table quickly. We played deployment on short-table edges (long ways battlefield) and he deepstuck in at the end of my opponents first turn in my deployment zone, cleaved through a CSM Bike squad+Lord, and proceeded to cleave through 2 more units and kill another with psychic, and ended the game barely outside of my enemies deployment zone.

Sadly the Visarch did NOTHING, and died a terrible death to Magnus psychic powers. Failing 3 look out-sirs made short work of him. He was with a squad of Scorpions and the only combat they got into he didnt even get to (or need to swing) as the scorpions killed the unit on their own. It is really stupid that the Visarch does not have an invul or assault grenades.

The best part of the game was the ending, where my troll rangers, who did not cause a SINGLE wound all game, took the last wound off of Magnus. It was glorious!!!

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
I have an interesting question, if a ynarri unit kills another unit in assault it can soulburst. Normally if it assaulted into combat it wouldn't be able to attack because its initiative step has already passed. But what if you assault through cover against something with defensive grenades and you don't have assault grenades. Would you then get to attack at I1?

Similarly if a Autarch takes a regular weapon like a laser lance and a power axe as a second weapon (he can take up to two weapons) can he attack at his normal initiative, wipe out a unit and then charge into another unit and attack with his power axe at I1?

Yes.

And these are two incredibly amazing ideas.

You can't soulburst if you are locked in combat.

Other units around you may soulburst, but you do not meet the criteria because, units are considered locked in combat until the end of the phase.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
I have an interesting question, if a ynarri unit kills another unit in assault it can soulburst. Normally if it assaulted into combat it wouldn't be able to attack because its initiative step has already passed. But what if you assault through cover against something with defensive grenades and you don't have assault grenades. Would you then get to attack at I1?

Similarly if a Autarch takes a regular weapon like a laser lance and a power axe as a second weapon (he can take up to two weapons) can he attack at his normal initiative, wipe out a unit and then charge into another unit and attack with his power axe at I1?

Yes.

And these are two incredibly amazing ideas.

You can't soulburst if you are locked in combat.

Other units around you may soulburst, but you do not meet the criteria because, units are considered locked in combat until the end of the phase.

See the FAQ. They changed the wording on Soulburst so it doesn't talk about locked in combat anymore, just if any enemies are making base-to-base contact with you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

EldarExarch wrote:
I played my first game this past weekend using the Yncarne and Visarch in a Craftworld CAD and I had a question about using soulburst with the Yncarne.

The way we played it, after the Yncarne destroyed a unit in CC, he consolidated, than got his free action from SfD. Is this incorrect? Does he not get to consolidate and only gets the free soulburst action, or did we play this correctly.

I must say it really helped him to move across the table quickly. We played deployment on short-table edges (long ways battlefield) and he deepstuck in at the end of my opponents first turn in my deployment zone, cleaved through a CSM Bike squad+Lord, and proceeded to cleave through 2 more units and kill another with psychic, and ended the game barely outside of my enemies deployment zone.

Sadly the Visarch did NOTHING, and died a terrible death to Magnus psychic powers. Failing 3 look out-sirs made short work of him. He was with a squad of Scorpions and the only combat they got into he didnt even get to (or need to swing) as the scorpions killed the unit on their own. It is really stupid that the Visarch does not have an invul or assault grenades.

The best part of the game was the ending, where my troll rangers, who did not cause a SINGLE wound all game, took the last wound off of Magnus. It was glorious!!!

Consolidation comes at the end of combat and is the last step before unlocking you so your Soulburst action should happen before you consolidate.

Audustum wrote:
See the FAQ. They changed the wording on Soulburst so it doesn't talk about locked in combat anymore, just if any enemies are making base-to-base contact with you.

Oh wow. Thanks!

 Gangrel767 wrote:

Audustum wrote:
See the FAQ. They changed the wording on Soulburst so it doesn't talk about locked in combat anymore, just if any enemies are making base-to-base contact with you.

Oh wow. Thanks!

No problem! It's opened a lot of doors for us. Very exciting.

I skimmed it right when the FAQ dropped, but I don't think I realized the change in the second sentence. I skipped it somehow.

AWESOME!

 lambsandlions wrote:

Similarly if a Autarch takes a regular weapon like a laser lance and a power axe as a second weapon (he can take up to two weapons) can he attack at his normal initiative, wipe out a unit and then charge into another unit and attack with his power axe at I1?

Can an Autarch take a Power Axe? I thought it was a Power sword? I'll have to check my book when I get home

 Galef wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:

Similarly if a Autarch takes a regular weapon like a laser lance and a power axe as a second weapon (he can take up to two weapons) can he attack at his normal initiative, wipe out a unit and then charge into another unit and attack with his power axe at I1?

Can an Autarch take a Power Axe? I thought it was a Power sword? I'll have to check my book when I get home

"Power Weapon" - so yes!

Huh, interesting idea. Is there anything in the main rulebook that would prohibit a unit from attack twice like that? I'd assume not since the idea was more or less impossible when the book was written.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

"Power Weapon" - so yes!

Nice. I'll have to start working that into my lists. Charge unit A and kill them with his Lance, Soulburst charge unit B and hit them with the Axe. Brutal.
What unit would be best for him to join?

I'm wondering on a tatic for dealing with clustered up Tau. Mainly a stormsurge and broadside/riptides in close range of it to maximize their combined overwatch. My plan:

3 raiders. All with chain snares, night fields and splinter racks.

1 of the Raiders Carries 10 warriors with a single splinter cannon. (Or if points allow, trueborn with carbines and cannons) one has 5 d cannon wraithgaurd the other 5 wraithblades. (Wraith units deploy beside it and ho in turn one then they take off.)

The idea is for the raiders to all screen each other and rip as fast as possible towards the stormsurge and tank shock it. (Assuming it's dropped anchor) - destroying it. It's death then triggers soulbursts for the wraith units to hop out and shoot or charge broad/rip tides. To make this work, and not get the raiders shot down before arrival, would need other more serious down range threats, like a wk or the Yncarne and probally some venoms or what not. But I wonder if that would be a valid trick? Edit: just realized trueborn don't have acsess tonshardcarbine. I thought they did. Still, the extra cannon for them makes it a tempting choice)

Also - I really want to have solid representation from all 3 factions but find I end up with a lot of eldar / dark eldar and only minor harlequin inclusion. That feels racist. Any suggestions on harlequin units that would help my army achieve more of a equal presence?

Caedes wrote:
I'm wondering on a tatic for dealing with clustered up Tau. Mainly a stormsurge and broadside/riptides in close range of it to maximize their combined overwatch. My plan:

3 raiders. All with chain snares, night fields and splinter racks.

1 of the Raiders Carries 10 warriors with a single splinter cannon. (Or if points allow, trueborn with carbines and cannons) one has 5 d cannon wraithgaurd the other 5 wraithblades. (Wraith units deploy beside it and ho in turn one then they take off.)

The idea is for the raiders to all screen each other and rip as fast as possible towards the stormsurge and tank shock it. (Assuming it's dropped anchor) - destroying it. It's death then triggers soulbursts for the wraith units to hop out and shoot or charge broad/rip tides. To make this work, and not get the raiders shot down before arrival, would need other more serious down range threats, like a wk or the Yncarne and probally some venoms or what not. But I wonder if that would be a valid trick? Edit: just realized trueborn don't have acsess tonshardcarbine. I thought they did. Still, the extra cannon for them makes it a tempting choice)

Also - I really want to have solid representation from all 3 factions but find I end up with a lot of eldar / dark eldar and only minor harlequin inclusion. That feels racist. Any suggestions on harlequin units that would help my army achieve more of a equal presence?

Against that type of tau, veil of tears is crazy good, especially on ranged threats.

Soul burst doesn't let you disembark, or shoot out of the vehicle.

And no matter how protected you think you can make the Raiders, all of them will die in the first round of Tau shooting.

Veil of tears only really affects the shadowseer and his unit. So great for one unit of harlequins. Maybe a big troupe with attached death jester as well might make this work, but otherwise seems ... weak. If it was a blessing I could spread around then yea, totally awsome.

Unless all ynari casters can acsess phantasma discipline?

Ie warlocks, farseer, yrvaine/Yncarne etc

Caedes wrote:
Veil of tears only really affects the shadowseer and his unit. So great for one unit of harlequins. Maybe a big troupe with attached death jester as well might make this work, but otherwise seems ... weak. If it was a blessing I could spread around then yea, totally awsome.

Unless all ynari casters can acsess phantasma discipline?

Ie warlocks, farseer, yrvaine/Yncarne etc

just put the shadowseer with a different unit. Preferably a long range shooting unit.

Alaa, Shadowseer with a gigantic scatterbike unit. Bam. Literally invincible scatterbikes against his list.

Well. As long as said scatterbikes only move 6" and don't use their jetbike move..... so you are sacrificing pretty much ALL of their mobility. - which I think is the units primary strong points.

That said, could be useful to escort a unit of foot slogging wraithgaurd.

Or stick in with dark reapers

Or attach to a weapons team...

But scatbikes? Nah. Warlock/farseer on bike make them even better then they are.

On harlequin options:

Any thoughts on the heros path formation?

 Galef wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:

"Power Weapon" - so yes!

Nice. I'll have to start working that into my lists. Charge unit A and kill them with his Lance, Soulburst charge unit B and hit them with the Axe. Brutal.
What unit would be best for him to join?

I am thinking reaver jet bikes. They do most their damage at I10. If you kill the whole unit in I10, you can soulburst and have the autarch and reavers use their normal attack. If you kill them at I7 from the autarch you can soulburst, have the reavers us their regular attack and the autarch attack at I1. If the unit dies at I6 from the reavers normal attacks you still have the autarch's I1 attacks.

Had another question.

Visarch and yrvaine, a shadowseer are in the same unit with say incubi.

If the shadow Seer dies, it triggers a soulburst. But can both visarch and yrvaine roll for their "absoarb" abilities? With each one healing wounds and gaining attacks/psychic powers?

Yup.

Personally I'm liking the idea of a unit of Wraithguard with a WWP Archon and the Armour of Misery, A Farseer rolling on Telepathy (maybe taking Guide as well), Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets rolling on Phantasmancy and maybe the Visarch for Silence.

You drop in, nuke something with Psychic Shrieke at -4 to Ld (-5 if you can get Terrify off as well) and if it's a unit the Visarch can force them to use their lowest Leadership. Thats potnetially a lot of wounds and likely a very dead Riptide squad, Stormsurge, Wraithknight, Dreadknight etc. You then Soulburst and nuke something else with the Wraithcannons and then in your shooting phase hit something else with the Wraithcannons.

 Imateria wrote:
Personally I'm liking the idea of a unit of Wraithguard with a WWP Archon and the Armour of Misery, A Farseer rolling on Telepathy (maybe taking Guide as well), Shadowseer with Mask of Secrets rolling on Phantasmancy and maybe the Visarch for Silence.

You drop in, nuke something with Psychic Shrieke at -4 to Ld (-5 if you can get Terrify off as well) and if it's a unit the Visarch can force them to use their lowest Leadership. Thats potnetially a lot of wounds and likely a very dead Riptide squad, Stormsurge, Wraithknight, Dreadknight etc. You then Soulburst and nuke something else with the Wraithcannons and then in your shooting phase hit something else with the Wraithcannons.

I just wrote a list with something similar, although I am not willing to put that many characters into 1 unit. I was thinking just the D-scythe WG, Archon & Shadowseer.

Quick question about that: The Armour of Misery says "units", the Mask of Secrets says "models". So if a unit has even 1 model outside of 12" of the Mask, does that mean it doesn't work, since the unit could still use the highest LD? Would that even affect Shriek since it isn't a true LD test (which is where is says to use the highest)? Could you use the majority LD in this case?

I'd be wary of using this tactic against Riptides though. RIptides almost always have EWO and I can say from personal experience that you will not have a unit left if you drop them anywhere a Riptide can see them. A few months ago I tried an D-scythe WG unit with a Shadowfield Archon. My opponent have a Riptide wing. I managed to drop where only 1 Riptide could see them, but it still managed to wipe the unit with 1 blast (Archon rolled a 1 on his first save). Granted it was all luck on the opponents pat, but it is possible you lose the WG before the Psychic phase can protect them.
And the FAQ now confirms that you finish resolving an attack before you Soulburst, so you wouldn't have many WG left to soulburst off the dead Archon.

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That would be pretty awsome. Only issue I could see - is v tau you could be facing ALOT if interceptor fire potentially getting killed before doing anything. - that unit does not have much in the way of invun saves and tau can drop a lot of str 6+ ap 1-2 shots. Especially if it's a riptide etc you are aiming for. You'd have to draw that interceptor fire off with something else - maybe a yneads net? If it works - you have jetbike squads all coming in from all sides. Then wwp in closeish to his lines but screened by the bikes. Hopefully he takes the bait and goes for the scary big bikes screaming in everywhere giving the portal team a chance.

But just solo .... showing up in a nicely bunched up circle ... just begs tau to divert ALL the ion/fusion/plasma they can. And that'll kill you off before doing anything more then whimper

This talk of attacking with the same model twice using different weapons seems wrong. You choose what weapons you are going to fight with at the beginning of combat or at least before you have to strike at that initiative. Once you have made your attacks you don´t get to attack again just because you are using a different weapon with a slower initiative.

 rawne2510 wrote:
This talk of attacking with the same model twice using different weapons seems wrong. You choose what weapons you are going to fight with at the beginning of combat or at least before you have to strike at that initiative. Once you have made your attacks you don´t get to attack again just because you are using a different weapon with a slower initiative.

I agree with this. The intent is clear that the model shouldn't get to attack twice, even the FAQ seems to stress this.

About the D-scythe WG vs Tau. There is absolutely no possible unit or plethora of units that would distract firepower from the WG right next to a Riptide. The Tau player will focus everything they have to intercept the heck out of those WG before they get a chance to fire.
The best bet is to place them in cover (which the Riptide is likely near) or have a Character with a decent ++ save in front to absorb some of the hits. In a prefect scenario, the Character absorbs all the hits for the first unit that intercepts so that the surviving WG can Soulburst and shoot the Riptide anyway.

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 rawne2510 wrote:
This talk of attacking with the same model twice using different weapons seems wrong. You choose what weapons you are going to fight with at the beginning of combat or at least before you have to strike at that initiative. Once you have made your attacks you don´t get to attack again just because you are using a different weapon with a slower initiative.

I believe what this is being based on is that the unit is starting a brand new fight sub-phase, just at a different initiative level. The rules say the unit should attack in every fight sub-phase.

It's an interesting quandary.