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Nice profile.

As for how AoS is set up, you can buy the generals handbook to play, but you want to buy your faction battletome to get full use.

The battletome is your standard codex price, but contains fluff, all stats, plus command traits, special faction wargrear, faction spells, missions, etc.

For example; I play Blades of Khorne. I could use just generals handbook, got my points and warscrolls and play, but im missing out on relics for war gear a leader can take, spells my bloodpriests can cast, special commands they can do etc.

I can only take 1 piece of relic gear though, same with commands for my leader model. Spells as assigned rando or picked. (all of it can be rando actually). But spells can only be casted once a turn. So if I had 4 guys with arcane bolt, after I cast it once, or fail that's it. No more bolts. so it makes you want to spread your spells out

str00dles1 wrote:
AOS explanation.

Again, thank you to the AoS players. I have no idea how AoS works, but these posts help me understand the Matched, Open, and narrative plays better.

I don't understand the mixed movement characteristic.
The grunts have 5" move and the sorcerer has 6". Does the unit move at 5"? What's the point of giving the sorcerer faster movement?
I thought characters weren't part of the unit anymore?

Also, no points values makes me sad. I hate how you have to consult a table at the back of the book for AoS.

It's a good thing they separate the keywords with commas. Otherwise we'd have people saying they could claim 'Astartes' bonuses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't understand the mixed movement characteristic.
The grunts have 5" move and the sorcerer has 6". Does the unit move at 5"? What's the point of giving the sorcerer faster movement?
I thought characters weren't part of the unit anymore?

Also, no points values makes me sad. I hate how you have to consult a table at the back of the book for AoS.

Might be a typo. It makes sense that they should move a little more slowly. The sorcerer move does seem superfluous at the moment.

Eyjio wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
You seem to be reading the base squad number wrong. I'm seeing 4 rubrics and 1 Aspiring Sorc for 8, +6 per 5 rubrics added.

No, just worded poorly, I'll go back and edit it. What I mean is that you need 10 marines for 1 soulreaper cannon, and on top of that the base squad of 5 costs 8 power, but it's only +6 per extra 5 marines.

Ah, gotcha, I got confused in the reading.

Also, MSU may still be on the menu - each min unit still gets an Aspiring Sorc, neh?

At this point it's just speculation but I don't know that the individual codices will actually provide that much more detail. And this isn't a complaint.

I'm going to use arbitrary numbers here since none of my books are handy so don't cringe at the how inaccurate these are - they're just examples.

Let's assume that every marine in a TAC squad costs 10 points. A Squad of 'stock' marines would be 100 points. Then I buy all the upgrades - I make on a Sergeant for +10 points or a Vet Sergeant for +20. I give him a Power Sword for +15, I drop another +15 on a plasma pistol for him 'cuz I like making one model cost a fortune... then I spend +15 more points adding a plasma gun to one marine and another +20 points adding a ML to yet another lucky marine.

In order to do all of that I needed not only the SM (or whatever SM faction) faction book to know the base point value of each of the dudes in the squad, but I also needed the Core Rule Book for the point cost on all the generic weapon upgrade options, and I would be flipping back and forth between them to add combinations of those and any other items unique to the faction.

Anyway, the match puts this squad somewhere in the neighborhood of 175-185 points. It could probably swing as far as 30 points if I chose to take a more 'vanilla' approach to the Sergeant or if I wanted to use less costly options. So let's say there's a cost window of between 150 and 190 points. That's a lot of work to figure out some pretty minute details about this squad to 'nickel and dime' players on what wargear they go with.

If the new datasheets are any indicator, they may be ditching this altogether and simply saying that, for the sake of doing less math, a 10 man TAC squad - regardless of how you equip them - will cost 175 points.

The weapon options or, the ability for this squad to make use of specialized weaponry, is accounted for in their point cost (now Power Level).

The aspiring sorcerer is just another name for a sergeant and we know sergeants are still part of squads.
The mixed movement characteristic is odd, so there is probably a move at the slowest pace rule somewhere.
Certainly for Rubricae, its fluffy, but from a gameplay stanpoint its quite a strange choice.

I'm indifferent about the double points cost.
It reminds me of the Swedish comp. system, which was a nice way of balancing things.
However, I dont think any of my friends have actually written and summed up a proper army list for some time, just round off for casual games.
These small numbers are easier to add up.

 kestral wrote:
Power = Points? Why would they have two systems?

Power gives a rough and ready estimate of combat ability without the finer granularity that points provide. If my kids are playing, I will encourage them to use equal power levels. If I am playing, I will agree a points limit with my opponent and build to that limit just like I do currently.

Eyjio wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
You seem to be reading the base squad number wrong. I'm seeing 4 rubrics and 1 Aspiring Sorc for 8, +6 per 5 rubrics added.

No, just worded poorly, I'll go back and edit it. What I mean is that you need 10 marines for 1 soulreaper cannon, and on top of that the base squad of 5 costs 8 power, but it's only +6 per extra 5 marines.

But asp champ. Will that remain without mantatory psyker?

str00dles1 wrote:
Nice profile.

As for how AoS is set up, you can buy the generals handbook to play, but you want to buy your faction battletome to get full use.

The battletome is your standard codex price, but contains fluff, all stats, plus command traits, special faction wargrear, faction spells, missions, etc.

For example; I play Blades of Khorne. I could use just generals handbook, got my points and warscrolls and play, but im missing out on relics for war gear a leader can take, spells my bloodpriests can cast, special commands they can do etc.

I can only take 1 piece of relic gear though, same with commands for my leader model. Spells as assigned rando or picked. (all of it can be rando actually). But spells can only be casted once a turn. So if I had 4 guys with arcane bolt, after I cast it once, or fail that's it. No more bolts. so it makes you want to spread your spells out

Is that not only true for a couple of armies though as they only just started doing proper codexs. Hence Sigmarines getting a replacement after 2 years to add all the content missing since launch.

So Khorne,Sigmarines and Squats have full codexs. Tzeentch has the options split over mortal and Demons so have less options individually. Finally Sylvanath we're the first try at a proper codexs so has options but not as many as the newest codexs.

Everything else has gimped armies with few of the options avaiable to the newer armies.

 En Excelsis wrote:

In order to do all of that I needed not only the SM (or whatever SM faction) faction book to know the base point value of each of the dudes in the squad, but I also needed the Core Rule Book for the point cost on all the generic weapon upgrade options, and I would be flipping back and forth between them to add combinations of those and any other items unique to the faction.

Maybe? Or maybe the faction book has the point costs for the base unit, extra dudes, the upgrades, and the stats all on one page?

Maybe? I certainly don't need a 5"x7" picture of a tactical squad on that page taking up room.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't understand the mixed movement characteristic.
The grunts have 5" move and the sorcerer has 6". Does the unit move at 5"? What's the point of giving the sorcerer faster movement?
I thought characters weren't part of the unit anymore?

Also, no points values makes me sad. I hate how you have to consult a table at the back of the book for AoS.

Sorcerers are not automatons. They are regular chaos space marines therefore move like them. The Rubrics are automatons who are slower than normal.

Also, has it already been known that USR's are gone? As this article seems to repeat that. Can't remember if we already knew that or not.

I love the fact that flamer weapons will have differing ranges.

Hand flamer will be 6" and D6 hits, flamer is 8" and also D6 hits.
Heavy flamer will likely be 10" and hopefully 2D6 or D6+2 or something, and the Flamestorm Cannon will be 12" and do 3D6 damage.

Inferno Cannon will hopefully be 18" and also do 3D6 damage.

Love it. Very pleased to see this.

To the point about armies and points, it's been said, expressly, multiple times by GW, that the CORE rules would be free to anyone, and that they would also be releasing FIVE army 'tomes' with the various armies rules and point costs in them a-la the generals handbook. These they have expressly said will NOT be free, but will be far cheaper than the old codexes were before, and will contain MULTIPLE armies inside of them. This is information that has been out for a good while now. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, and if you're new to the information: There ya go. If it upsets you that you need to buy updated army rules, all I can tell you is: I'm sorry you feel that way.

Folks like me, who have Marines (Blood Angels), Guard, and a Knight will likely be able to buy one of these tomes for all their army rules. I'll also pick up the Xenos one containing Eldar, specifically Harlequins, for my wife. I suspect (PUREST GUESS) that the army dataslate/tome/whatever it'll be called will run around $20 to 25. Maybe $30, but I doubt it.

If you have multiple armies, yea that can be a bit of a steep cost to get more than one or two of them, but I'm willing to drop $40 to $50 bucks on updated army rules, especially considering what it's cost in the past in previous editions to buy a rulebook, and THEN codexes for two armies on top of that.

Just my opinion on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't understand the mixed movement characteristic.
The grunts have 5" move and the sorcerer has 6". Does the unit move at 5"? What's the point of giving the sorcerer faster movement?
I thought characters weren't part of the unit anymore?

Independent Characters can't be part of a unit, yes.
Sergeants and stuff like that seem to be (in a shocking twist of "Wow, I'm utterly not surprised!") remaining with the units they're a part of.

Each model moves a specific distance. The Rubricae move 5", the Sorcerer moves 6".

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
What's the point of giving the sorcerer faster movement?

So that he can reposition better within squad coherency to where you want him? From a rules point of view, as long as coherency is maintained during movement, you can have a squad mixing M5 and M10 and be absolutely fine.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
The aspiring sorcerer is just another name for a sergeant and we know sergeants are still part of squads.
The mixed movement characteristic is odd, so there is probably a move at the slowest pace rule somewhere.
Certainly for Rubricae, its fluffy, but from a gameplay stanpoint its quite a strange choice.

I'm indifferent about the double points cost.
It reminds me of the Swedish comp. system, which was a nice way of balancing things.
However, I dont think any of my friends have actually written and summed up a proper army list for some time, just round off for casual games.
These small numbers are easier to add up.

Dif move stillwhas effect though small one. Allows bit better positioning

Unwieldy will probably be relegated to only a few weapons like Power Fists and similar. I suspect it will only be a -1 to Hit modifier. The only things mentioned that alter attack sequence in Fight Phase were Lash whips and the like.

 kestral wrote:
Power = Points? Why would they have two systems?

Because both have worked.
A large amount of people have shown appreciation for AoS's point system, but its still 40k and the granular system is expected, so rather than switch to one or the other, they give us both- one is labeled as narrative points and the other is matched play points. I trust i don't need to explain which is which.

str00dles1 wrote:
Nice profile.

As for how AoS is set up, you can buy the generals handbook to play, but you want to buy your faction battletome to get full use.

The battletome is your standard codex price, but contains fluff, all stats, plus command traits, special faction wargrear, faction spells, missions, etc.

For example; I play Blades of Khorne. I could use just generals handbook, got my points and warscrolls and play, but im missing out on relics for war gear a leader can take, spells my bloodpriests can cast, special commands they can do etc.

I can only take 1 piece of relic gear though, same with commands for my leader model. Spells as assigned rando or picked. (all of it can be rando actually). But spells can only be casted once a turn. So if I had 4 guys with arcane bolt, after I cast it once, or fail that's it. No more bolts. so it makes you want to spread your spells out

Actually battletomes are cheaper than codexes. Your average codex costs between 33 to 39 euros for softcover. AoS battletomes are 20-25 euros, those that are post-GHB (which are the ones worth taking if you want them for the rules).

I really hope they show a matched play sheet. I understand others may care about narrative and "for fun" games, but I could not care less about them existing.

Just hoping for a bit more information.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I don't understand the mixed movement characteristic.
The grunts have 5" move and the sorcerer has 6". Does the unit move at 5"? What's the point of giving the sorcerer faster movement?
I thought characters weren't part of the unit anymore?

Independent Characters can't be part of a unit, yes.
Sergeants and stuff like that seem to be (in a shocking twist of "Wow, I'm utterly not surprised!") remaining with the units they're a part of.

Each model moves a specific distance. The Rubricae move 5", the Sorcerer moves 6".

I can't off hand see why the different move stats would be an issue - I assume this will be rare however witin a unit - of course they could have gone back to move penalties for heavy weapons

I actually really like the Power Level AND the Points system that will come with the generals handsbook. The abiilty to play some quick games for fun or get back into my large apoc games with fast lists is a big benefit.

The movement difference is fluffy and it's not like we haven't had mixed speed in units for years. The rubrics move 5, he moves 6 as long as he maintains coherent to the rubrics. It's actually useful in some situations.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I really hope they show a matched play sheet. I understand others may care about narrative and "for fun" games, but I could not care less about them existing.

Just hoping for a bit more information.

As I understand it, a "matched play sheet" is what you see in the article plus the matched play points from the general's handbook, which will somehow cover all the points for ever option, for all factions.
Somehow.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Buying books for point costs. Truly, how horrendous of them. How could they. What callous, greedy behavior. Who could have thought. Paying money. Shocking. I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

Sarcasm detected. It's shaping up that from a Matched Play perspective, which is the only perspective many people care about, the only rules that are going to be free are the core rules. If you want to play Space Marines with army specific rules, buy a book. If you want to ally in some Tau models with army specific rules, buy another book. If you want your Tau to be Farsight Enclaves flavored, buy another book. Oh, you like that recently released model? Buy this campaign book to get the points costs. New terrain! Buy a book for the points.

How is this not just like 7th Edition? Even if the books are cheaper per book, it still sounds like I'm going to need a stack of them to use the models I currently own. It sounds like the transition from 7th Edition to 8th Edition will involve throwing all of my rule books in the garbage and then buying new ones.

Am I missing something? I know GW is going to be releasing 5 books on day 1 with point costs for all of the currently available models. It sounds like they'll then be releasing Codexes with army specific rules in much the same way AoS has the General's Handbook for basic costs and Battletomes to really jazz up an army. To play my Skitarii, Tau and Iron Warrior armies, I'll need the Imperium, Chaos AND Xenos books PLUS whatever the General's Handbook equivalent is PLUS the inevitable Skitarii, Tau and Chaos Marines Codexes. That's 7 rule books for a "free" rule set. I hope I'm missing something.

I'm a little sad that inferno boltguns will no longer simply mow down MEQs, but you take the bad with the good. The warpflamer weapons look awesome, though, as does the soulreaper.

The force weapons are interesting. If it's true that the Instant Death feature got rolled into force weapons causing multiple wounds, then on the one hand, multi-wound models have a lot less to worry about from force weapons. On the other hand, psykers no longer have to worry about risking Perils to activate their force weapons, and aspiring sorcerers don't have to blow their one power each round on that activation. Aspiring sorcerers who actually do something, imagine that!

It's pretty funny that aspiring sorcerers can only cast a shittier version of Smite. I suppose that's why they're only aspiring.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I really hope they show a matched play sheet. I understand others may care about narrative and "for fun" games, but I could not care less about them existing.

Just hoping for a bit more information.

As I understand it, a "matched play sheet" is what you see in the article plus the matched play points from the general's handbook, which will somehow cover all the points for ever option, for all factions.
Somehow.

Interesting. I'm hesitant, but willing to wait and see more.

 Kriswall wrote:
If you want your Tau to be Farsight Enclaves flavored, buy another book.

We do not know that will be the case.

Brian888 wrote:
I'm a little sad that inferno boltguns will no longer simply mow down MEQs, but you take the bad with the good. The warpflamer weapons look awesome, though, as does the soulreaper.

The force weapons are interesting. If it's true that the Instant Death feature got rolled into force weapons causing multiple wounds, then on the one hand, multi-wound models have a lot less to worry about from force weapons. On the other hand, psykers no longer have to worry about risking Perils to activate their force weapons, and aspiring sorcerers don't have to blow their one power each round on that activation. Aspiring sorcerers who actually do something, imagine that!

It's pretty funny that aspiring sorcerers can only cast a shittier version of Smite. I suppose that's why they're only aspiring.

Yeah they don't appear to be aspiring too much.

 Kriswall wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Buying books for point costs. Truly, how horrendous of them. How could they. What callous, greedy behavior. Who could have thought. Paying money. Shocking. I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you. Shocked.

Sarcasm detected. It's shaping up that from a Matched Play perspective, which is the only perspective many people care about, the only rules that are going to be free are the core rules. If you want to play Space Marines with army specific rules, buy a book. If you want to ally in some Tau models with army specific rules, buy another book. If you want your Tau to be Farsight Enclaves flavored, buy another book. Oh, you like that recently released model? Buy this campaign book to get the points costs. New terrain! Buy a book for the points.

How is this not just like 7th Edition? Even if the books are cheaper per book, it still sounds like I'm going to need a stack of them to use the models I currently own. It sounds like the transition from 7th Edition to 8th Edition will involve throwing all of my rule books in the garbage and then buying new ones.

Am I missing something? I know GW is going to be releasing 5 books on day 1 with point costs for all of the currently available models. It sounds like they'll then be releasing Codexes with army specific rules in much the same way AoS has the General's Handbook for basic costs and Battletomes to really jazz up an army. To play my Skitarii, Tau and Iron Warrior armies, I'll need the Imperium, Chaos AND Xenos books PLUS whatever the General's Handbook equivalent is PLUS the inevitable Skitarii, Tau and Chaos Marines Codexes. That's 7 rule books for a "free" rule set. I hope I'm missing something.

They never claimed it would be a free rule set. They claimed the base rules would be free.

Y'know how the current basic rule book costs $165?

That's money you're not going to have to shell out. THAT's how its different from 7th.

But no, continue to complain that they aren't providing something for free that they've never stated would be free.

...You are aware this is a business that they run, right?