Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/06/03 21:34:24
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 21:42:27
2017/06/03 21:45:30
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Are there any quotes from the book which explicitly say his opinion? And would you recommend it?
If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me! Believe in the Dakka who believes in you!
2017/06/03 21:48:11
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Are there any quotes from the book which explicitly say his opinion? And would you recommend it?
Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered.
Yeah, I'd recommend it. It's an interesting read and a good character piece for the modern Guilliman.
2017/06/03 22:02:07
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
The real bottleneck I see is that he's gone from having six Elite choices to having 22. Also a total absence of fast attack which locks out the Brigade detachment unfortunately.
If he could scare up six FA choices, he could fit the entire army into two brigades and a vanguard, ending with 22 command points.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
2017/06/03 22:47:37
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Played my first game of 8th. Holy crap so much to unlearn. So many assumptions about how things play that need to go out the window.
I also understand why vehicles cost as much as they do now......SO DURABLE
I see why transports are so expensive. The mortal wounds on 1 is meh, however when you realize that units have to blow their entire load on the vehicle even if it has one wound to get to the guys inside....and then you can multi charge afterwards? Holy crap
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 23:35:05
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Leth wrote: Played my first game of 8th. Holy crap so much to unlearn. So many assumptions about how things play that need to go out the window.
I also understand why vehicles cost as much as they do now......SO DURABLE
Great to hear about vehicles About to watch a batrep on YouTube.
So I watched a couple of bat reps myself; looks like any of the big singular units will take a lot to bring down, monster or vehicle.
I was happy to see one Marine player take a Land Raider and actually get the chance to use it, since it lasted until the end of the game while also doing significant damage. The guy still lost, mind, but that was because his opponent was more focused on the victory conditions and bottlenecked him with death Guard while using cheaper poxwalkers and cultists to capture the objectives.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
2017/06/03 23:56:56
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Leth wrote: Played my first game of 8th. Holy crap so much to unlearn. So many assumptions about how things play that need to go out the window.
I also understand why vehicles cost as much as they do now......SO DURABLE
I see why transports are so expensive. The mortal wounds on 1 is meh, however when you realize that units have to blow their entire load on the vehicle even if it has one wound to get to the guys inside....and then you can multi charge afterwards? Holy crap
Charge shooting units with them. It's so good.
I had a land raider in the face of my rubrics. I fled to be able to shoot it with bigger guns, but it just kept not dying and shooting and charging over and over. Blocking my way to the objective as well.
I'm not sure if I should have stayed in combat with it and just had a stalemate until he decided to flee with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 23:59:26
2017/06/04 00:26:00
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Novel?
2017/06/04 00:48:25
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
And what do you mean 'too big?' That's not a thing. They're space marine size, compared to current 'moderately tall dude' size.
Too big for gaming pieces, especialy when you take into account the typical game size. There's only so much you can fit on the table and the art of miniatures is that those are small, beautiful things. Making them bigger is not the trick.
The way to go was releasing new marines in the standard size, and then replacing IG humans with smaller ones. The IG range needs an update anyway and the actual number of people affected would be much smaller.
What you've done is laid judgement and determined that anyone who doesn't agree must be in some way inferior to you.
That sounds awful tbh. No I didn't, I just think I have a good understanding of what made 40k great once. Just posting what I think, I don't value people based on their opinion on nerdy games or pictures really.
dismissing the edition as 'shallow' without playing is silly but I think that's more symptomatic than anything
Seems exactly as silly as your claim that it's a MASSIVE improvement, after one game (if I understood correctly, one or a few doesn't change much here though anyway)
I think we can safely end the whole wall of text thing in a typical internet stalemate.
Sure why not, who cares anyway.
From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.
A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.
How could I look away?
2017/06/04 00:52:58
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
Surely you just use the ≤Chaos≥ keyword and you are sorted?
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
I hope so but as of right now you can't take them with the Chaos index rules for DG. The weird thing is that it specifically mentions about DG's extensive use of terminators in the description and then on the following page it says you can't take them.
Surely you just use the ≤Chaos≥ keyword and you are sorted?
Nope. it gives a list of what unmarked legion units you are allowed and specifically says if its not on the list, it can't be marked as DG and termies and vindi's ain't on the list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/04 01:11:05
2017/06/04 01:15:10
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/04 01:36:35
From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.
A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.
How could I look away?
2017/06/04 01:41:26
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Von Marlon wrote: Anyone planning to use terminators or vindicators for a Death Guard army is going to be in for a very unpleasant surprise. :(
If I had to guess, we know that they are coming out with death guard specific terminator units and so didnt include them in the index. Vindis, I have no idea on.
I hope so but as of right now you can't take them with the Chaos index rules for DG. The weird thing is that it specifically mentions about DG's extensive use of terminators in the description and then on the following page it says you can't take them.
Surely you just use the ≤Chaos≥ keyword and you are sorted?
Nope. it gives a list of what unmarked legion units you are allowed and specifically says if its not on the list, it can't be marked as DG and termies and vindi's ain't on the list.
Yes, but ListentoMe's suggestion is that if you want Vindicators that you DON'T use the Death Guard keyword as your Detachment's main keyword, use one of the other 3 that they share.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 01:44:50
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2017/06/04 01:53:52
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
skarsol wrote: /mourn the Sonic Dreadnaught. :( I wonder if the Contemptor will have the options it used to have.
Angry Slaanesh player here...
I wasn't holding out much hope that FW would come out with updated rules. No surprise really, it went for outdated or no rules for years despite them still selling the model. You can always just swap weapons profiles on the Helbrute with the new sonic weapons or just proxy the model as something else. My spent years proxying as a Soulgrinder. Knowing FW there will eventually release a Contemptor version for 30K someday.
"Fear the cute ones."
2017/06/04 02:33:06
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Looks like I have secured the Nurgle half of Dark Imperium off someone!
Was going to buy full box, but that old wallet is a little tight at the moment :(
2017/06/04 03:21:21
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
Robin5t wrote: Just finished the Dark Imperium novel. Can confirm most of those rumours apart from the one about Guilliman's opinion of Primaris marines, which was 100% not the impression I got from the book.
Are there any quotes from the book which explicitly say his opinion? And would you recommend it?
Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered.
Yeah, I'd recommend it. It's an interesting read and a good character piece for the modern Guilliman.
Now I am tempted very cool!
Seems like its a bit more complex than many people are giving it credit for.
I hope we see more lore and fluff soon!
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2017/06/04 03:57:16
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
MLaw wrote: It's funny to me that GW flat out said that they're not blowing up the universe.
What they didn't say was that they were blowing up half the universe..
It's a lie by omission. Like when the Gathering Storm kicked off people asked them "Is this 40K's End Times?" and they responded with "End Times was specific to Warhammer Fantasy, not 40K". They're telling the truth, so they're not technically lying, but they're also not telling the whole truth.
Anyway, the old Marines' days are numbered huh? What a shock!
I agree the end times bit is certainly a lie by omission, but I would say the statement that they aren't blowing up the universe is not. The warp rift splitting the galaxy is apocalyptic sure, but not at all analogous to what happened with WHFB. The galaxy is still there, its a same galaxy, just messed up (more). It's not like it was vaporized and an entirely new one was introduced using different laws of reality.
With regular Space Marines days being numbered in the fluff I would still expect it to be a long time both story and model wise before they are actually gone. Yes, old marines are probably going to be phased out, but not at a faster pace than the kits would have been replaced by newer sculpts in the past. I expect it will be a decade before old-marines are really gone from the product line, and that's assuming they don't change their mind.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/06/04 05:09:57
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 4th June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me! Believe in the Dakka who believes in you! 
