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And it looks like the new reserves rule buffs that summoning change. Being able to bring in reserves after turn 3 is pretty much a summoning only thing.

^^ Okay, then Rubricae are tougher than we thought


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 Gloomfang wrote:
And it looks like the new reserves rule buffs that summoning change. Being able to bring in reserves after turn 3 is pretty much a summoning only thing.

That'll be handy for dropping a unit when the enemy have played all their cards, especially if hold objectives until the end or something like Maelstrom still exists.

Huh. Reserves seem to generally have a LZ of at least 9 inches from hostiles. There goes dropping Flamers in someone's face and hosing them down with fire. And with Run/Turbo happening during Movement, Screamers might have lost their ability to attack & redeploy on arrival.

Wonder if there'll be access to re-rolling Charge dice without expending a CP.

If there is I'd suspect it'd be Slaanesh based.

 Gloomfang wrote:
And it looks like the new reserves rule buffs that summoning change. Being able to bring in reserves after turn 3 is pretty much a summoning only thing.

The other thing that summoning does is allow people to bring, relatively, exactly what they need. If they need fast assault units they can bring that on, if they need tough obj. holders they can bring that on.


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 koooaei wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:


The six results and their rounded off chances of a 1W model *not* making *all* their 5++ saves:

0.66
0.89
0.96
0.99
1
1

I didn't quite get what that is. But just in case. You roll for damage after suffering a wound.

As far as I can tell yes. You: roll to hit, roll to wound, roll damage for said wound, then save. I think.

Well now that we know Assault from Reserves is a think.. Hopefully we'll see some useful Warp Talons eh?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Well now that we know Assault from Reserves is a think.. Hopefully we'll see some useful Warp Talons eh?

I would love this. Warp Talons are such cool models!

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
And it looks like the new reserves rule buffs that summoning change. Being able to bring in reserves after turn 3 is pretty much a summoning only thing.

The other thing that summoning does is allow people to bring, relatively, exactly what they need. If they need fast assault units they can bring that on, if they need tough obj. holders they can bring that on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:


The six results and their rounded off chances of a 1W model *not* making *all* their 5++ saves:

0.66
0.89
0.96
0.99
1
1

I didn't quite get what that is. But just in case. You roll for damage after suffering a wound.

As far as I can tell yes. You: roll to hit, roll to wound, roll damage for said wound, then save. I think.

Save before damage.

So rumors of better rules in 8th may actually get me to play a game instead of just collecting stuff.

Since I am assuming that bigmarines are coming to the chaos side as well, how do you guys think it will spread?

I'm hoping a round of bigger cult marines, and then upsized chosen. If you could take them as troops, you could make three different chosen squads and have those phase out the guys that we have.

Do a frontline squad with melee/flamer/melta upgrades, a midrange squad with plas/HB/autocannon upgrades, and a heavy squad with the really heavy stuff.

How Primaris might spread to Chaos:

- Fabius Bile (or extant Apothecaries - come on GW if we're going to get Chaos Techmarines then give us more than one named mad physician) acquiring some specimens

- Primaris Marines realising Horus was right and going renegade

- Tzeentchian plotting

- Heretech hackers find a load of Martian data-banks still use Windows XP and steal the secrets of their creation

- Guilliman selecting 'send all' with the instructions for Chapter Masters without realising he'd muted the rebel Primarchs but not removed them from his contacts list

 lindsay40k wrote:
How Primaris might spread to Chaos:

- Fabius Bile (or extant Apothecaries - come on GW if we're going to get Chaos Techmarines then give us more than one named mad physician) acquiring some specimens

- Primaris Marines realising Horus was right and going renegade

- Tzeentchian plotting

- Heretech hackers find a load of Martian data-banks still use Windows XP and steal the secrets of their creation

- Guilliman selecting 'send all' with the instructions for Chapter Masters without realising he'd muted the rebel Primarchs but not removed them from his contacts list

Maybe Girlyman forgot to open the Email containing the Primaris Marine instructions in an incognito tab?

On a serious note the guy who let slip the new plague marine images said the Chaos gods weren't involved (although his coherency wasn't too great so he might have meant something else)

 lindsay40k wrote:
How Primaris might spread to Chaos:

- Fabius Bile (or extant Apothecaries - come on GW if we're going to get Chaos Techmarines then give us more than one named mad physician) acquiring some specimens

- Primaris Marines realising Horus was right and going renegade

- Tzeentchian plotting

- Heretech hackers find a load of Martian data-banks still use Windows XP and steal the secrets of their creation

- Guilliman selecting 'send all' with the instructions for Chapter Masters without realising he'd muted the rebel Primarchs but not removed them from his contacts list

Alpha Legionaires infiltrating a growth facility (or whatever they're calling the place where the Primarines are being created) and impersonating an Imperial, then stealing geneseed and learning the process and taking it back to Fabius/Abbadon/whoever so they can start creating them. I remember reading a book where something similar happened when Corax (iirc, it's been a -long- time since I read it) was trying to create more Marines.

Personally, I kinda hope we don't get Primarines, but do hope we get an updated model range in the scale of the Primarines, at least for the Cult Troops anyway. If you look at the new Rubricae, they are similar in height and stature of the Primaris, so I hope we see more of that.

Primarines? Pfft, Cawl may as well have commissioned a high school science club. Wait and see our master craftsman show that corpse-loving amateur how it's done.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Perhaps Word Bearers will have some abilities enhancing a Mortal-Daemon Grand Alliance. It seems that having a Force Org chart grants Stratagems particular to any Faction Keyword shared by all units in the Detachment; maybe Daemons will be ignored when determining if a Detatchment is a 'pure' WB one


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Hmm. Melee Squads now get their +1A from the Chainsword itself, not from melee weapon & pistol. That implies that Champions with Power Weapons won't get +1A, effectively handing them a nerf. They get an extra strike from their pistol, but only in their shooting phase, and not with their weapon profile. Gunners are slightly better when caught by a melee unit, as they'll get to fire pistols.

As for the Champion's hitting power, Power Swords are now much better against Terminators but worse against MEQs. Power Mauls are better than they were against heavy infantry but worse than they were against light infantry and vehicles (which now take a lot more hits and have a save). Power Fists won't strike after a mandatory challengee runs us through with his sword, but will only ever have 2A, even when charging and dual wielding with a LC, which may now be an excessive expenditure.

In fact, I wonder if models currently able to wield two different melee weapons (or two Plasma pistols) will retain these options. The latter was more an artefact of how their standard equipment and upgrades worked. I have a Terminator Sorcerer with axe & sword who takes Biomancy and breaks heads, and a Chosen champion with Plasma Pistols who kills a Terminator or two a turn.

Why are we jumping to the Chainsword being the only +1 attack. It could be pistol CCW hires one, and chainsword gives an extra. I'm being hopeful... That's kinda every close combat units shtick. Are they gonna improve the choppaz just to make Slugga boyz more useful? Doubtful.

So due to this new WYSIWYG mechanic I had to redo my Raptor models carrying special weapons to have that Chainsword in one hand, and melta gun in the other as opposed to carrying it in both hands.

Unfortunately most of my infantry models carry Combat Knives since they're easier to glue onto bolter Marines. They really should have some sheathed or strapped Chainsword bitz by now...



EDIT:

Well, I just found out that Burning of Prospero has strapped Chain Swords in their bitz! Just ordered up some now.

WYSI for life.

So with the changes to chainswords, could we possible see chainaxes at S: +1 AP-1 dam1 +1 attack? Berserksers would be a whole heck of a lot scarier with that.

StarHunter25 wrote:
So with the changes to chainswords, could we possible see chainaxes at S: +1 AP-1 dam1 +1 attack? Berserksers would be a whole heck of a lot scarier with that.

Hopefully they'll get 2A base as well and/or a form of rage + furious charge next ed. 4/5 attacks on the charge each at S5/6 AP-1 and a boltpistol shot: should be nasty.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Hopefully they'll get 2A base as well and/or a form of rage + furious charge next ed. 4/5 attacks on the charge each at S5/6 AP-1 and a boltpistol shot: should be nasty.

I'd buy that for a dollar. Here's hoping we have embiggened berzerkers by Christmas.

I think that on a similar vein of how Khorne Daemonkin basically made a Khorne faction, 8th edition is going to start off with a Nurgle faction. Death Guard models have shown to be super mutated, and even big M himself is going to show up. Would make sense imo for a nurgle faction to pop up in 40k, the same way it popped up in Fantasy.

If that does happen, I'm excited to see a Tzeentch and Slaanesh codex get released.

Also I hope that there is a dedicated GW codex for Heretics and Renegades, or at the very least a supplementary codex. Forgeworld stuff and 8th edition are a bit iffy at the moment, and I want my models to still be useful.

 mrhappyface wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
So with the changes to chainswords, could we possible see chainaxes at S: +1 AP-1 dam1 +1 attack? Berserksers would be a whole heck of a lot scarier with that.

Hopefully they'll get 2A base as well and/or a form of rage + furious charge next ed. 4/5 attacks on the charge each at S5/6 AP-1 and a boltpistol shot: should be nasty.

I'd think probably 4 attacks would be the baseline they'd start with with the way playtesters are talkin

 Novelist47 wrote:
I think that on a similar vein of how Khorne Daemonkin basically made a Khorne faction, 8th edition is going to start off with a Nurgle faction. Death Guard models have shown to be super mutated, and even big M himself is going to show up. Would make sense imo for a nurgle faction to pop up in 40k, the same way it popped up in Fantasy.

If that does happen, I'm excited to see a Tzeentch and Slaanesh codex get released.

Also I hope that there is a dedicated GW codex for Heretics and Renegades, or at the very least a supplementary codex. Forgeworld stuff and 8th edition are a bit iffy at the moment, and I want my models to still be useful.

Tzeetch already exists. we got them in december

I'm going to have to get a box of Berzerkers soon. I actually like the antique kit, it mixes really well with HH plastics to make brutal-looking Khornate Word Bearers that look distinct to more baroque World Eaters. Plus it has sheathed swords that I've already WYSIWYG'd my Raptors with

How far is 48K going to go with WYSIWYG, actually? I've got loads of Bolter guys with no holstered pistol...

So now we have the Swarmlord statline:

(The lord also has AP-3 and d6 wounds on each of it's attacks)

I'm personally guessing the Daemon Prince will be almost exactly the same as this as well as a 5++ invul. What do you guys think, is this likely to be the stats for a DP and if so is it good? I personally would like it.

 mrhappyface wrote:
So now we have the Swarmlord statline:

(The lord also has AP-3 and d6 wounds on each of it's attacks)

I'm personally guessing the Daemon Prince will be almost exactly the same as this as well as a 5++ invul. What do you guys think, is this likely to be the stats for a DP and if so is it good? I personally would like it.

it'd bepretty nice if that was the stats of a demon prince. my gut feeling is the deamon prince won't be QUITE as powerful, (keep in mind the swarm lord is supposed to be the tyranids biggest baddest special unit.) but it'll proably be similer. my guess is the DP'll have less attacks. but otherwise be similer. the DP may also be a little slower (but we dunno how wings are gonna come into play here)

I dunno, the daemon prince models are pretty small and their not THAT tough in the current edition. I think they might squeeze him in at 8 wounds so as to give him protection.
Does AoS still have daemons? Whatever a prince does there is probably more or less what we'll be getting here too.

With wings and sword he moves 12", hits on 3+ and AP -1, has 8 wounds.

Hopefully DP has 10 wounds, so doesn't have degenerating effects

BrianDavion wrote:it'd bepretty nice if that was the stats of a demon prince. my gut feeling is the deamon prince won't be QUITE as powerful, (keep in mind the swarm lord is supposed to be the tyranids biggest baddest special unit.) but it'll proably be similer. my guess is the DP'll have less attacks. but otherwise be similer. the DP may also be a little slower (but we dunno how wings are gonna come into play here)

I thought the current DP and SL had very similar stat lines, am I wrong? Also a DP in law is much faster and more dangerous than almost all other mortal beings (hence WS9 I8).

Roknar wrote:I dunno, the daemon prince models are pretty small and their not THAT tough in the current edition. I think they might squeeze him in at 8 wounds so as to give him protection.
Does AoS still have daemons? Whatever a prince does there is probably more or less what we'll be getting here too.

The DP model is about the same size as a SL isn't it?
AoS still has daemons: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-daemons-of-chaos-en.pdf
It's a bit weaker (well a lot weaker) than the 8th ed SL.

Guilliman is likely to be a DP DP is likely to have Guilliman statline.

Yeah, DPs & (naked) Primarchs seem to be roughly similar in terms of profiles, though Primarchs are a bit stronger.

It is a bit of a worry, though. Currently it takes four successful Lascannon Wounds to bring one down. That's equivalent to 14W in 48K. That said, they'll have a lower wound rate, so I guess it'll probably survive one round of Devastator fire. One will miss, one won't wound, maybe save one, so probably take about 5W on average?

I suppose they'll probably be fast on their feet, so cover hopping to deny LOS will be feasible. Wonder how flying is going to work? Sigmarhammer wings don't seem to confer the ability to evade cannonballs...

 lindsay40k wrote:
Yeah, DPs & (naked) Primarchs seem to be roughly similar in terms of profiles, though Primarchs are a bit stronger.

It is a bit of a worry, though. Currently it takes four successful Lascannon Wounds to bring one down. That's equivalent to 14W in 48K. That said, they'll have a lower wound rate, so I guess it'll probably survive one round of Devastator fire. One will miss, one won't wound, maybe save one, so probably take about 5W on average?

I suppose they'll probably be fast on their feet, so cover hopping to deny LOS will be feasible. Wonder how flying is going to work? Sigmarhammer wings don't seem to confer the ability to evade cannonballs...

The difference is that they're likely to be able to hide behind those cultists.

Hmm looking at that profile it seems a fair bit worse than the current prince. Maybe they won't be so similar after all. Though I suspect the 8 inch move and wounds will stay.
I highly doubt a prince will be hitting on a 4+ though. We'll also probably keep the option for power armour and wings. So nurgle makes no sense for the 40k version.
Gotta say I'm excited to see an undivided version , hope that is brought over. The other gods don't seem to be created equally though, Slaanesh and tzeentch in particular seem a bit underwhelming.
One single spell for a daemon prince? Is that a common thing in AoS? Because if a mere aspiring champion can cast a single spell, you'd figure a prince of tzeentch should be able to do better XD.
Plus tzeentch is the only one that can cast spells? No way that's gonna make it into 40k.

Tbh, other than the 8 wounds and movement speed (and Leadership probably) I don't think the 40k prince will be anything like this.
Khorne might hit on 2+ but that's about it.
Not being able to target a prince though would be a pretty big boon compared to the current version.
Especially for khorne and slaanesh, what with slaanesh being the fastest atm and khorne just being all around unpleasant in CC.
I doubt they'll turn them into knight killers though like the swarmlord. I'd expect them to be more in the tyrant ballpark.
Also makes me wonder how they'll treat greater daemons.