Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?

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**MacPhail**

U02dah4 wrote:
MacPhail wrote:
As anyone can, I'd welcome feedback on a 2-tier development plan for a little side Guard.

First, I'd bring in and test a Catachan battalion: Straken, Lord Commissar with Maul and Dagger of Tu'Sakh, 3x Infantry, Bullgryns with Mauls, and 2x Priests for somewhere just over 400 points.

If that works well enough, I'd bring in Harker, a Mortar HWS, a Lascannon HWS, and a Hydra Battery (just for fun, and I have a cool one). That takes it to around 660 points.

I'd run Straken and a wall of bodies with Priest up the middle, send the Lord Commissar and Bullgryns around to enemy's deployment zone, and use Harker and the big guns to supplement anti-infantry, anti-tank, and anti-air for the Sororitas army this one will flank.

This may not be super competitive, but it seems fun, and I have some fun classic models to pull it off with. Comments welcome!

Dagger of Tu'sakh cannot be taken on a commissar
faq Page 138 – The Dagger of Tu’Sakh
Add the following sentence at the start of the rules text:
‘Infantry Officer model only.

also only ever use a powersword in a commissar its better

the second priest is overkill in only a battallion and while they stack with straken they dont stack with each other

Cool, thanks... I had missed that FAQ. So a CC as the second HQ then. The extra Priest is meant gallop across the battlefield and try to meet up with the Bullgryn flankers... if he advances he should be able to get within 6" if i can anticipate their target. Still may not be worth the points, though...

**U02dah4**

Since you can only give the dagger to an officer and the officers can only take regiment units with them to flank. The bullgryns cant flank. (Unless you mean footslogging down the flank)

**Lothar**

Not that Guard was tourney succesful apart from the catachan horde with big punch allies, but what do you think can be played in competitive scene in guard lists after the upcoming CHA that will nerf us again and boost some other codices?

Do we even have anything to win on our own without allies? What do you do against knights or orc horde? What about dark eldars or cultist/daemon spellcaster heavy lists? Or even custodes captains that chew through our infantry like it was nothing?

I would like to know what do you think is our best chance to win against competitive lists. Theoryhammer time :-)

**schadenfreude**

Lothar wrote:
Not that Guard was tourney succesful apart from the catachan horde with big punch allies, but what do you think can be played in competitive scene in guard lists after the upcoming CHA that will nerf us again and boost some other codices?

Do we even have anything to win on our own without allies? What do you do against knights or orc horde? What about dark eldars or cultist/daemon spellcaster heavy lists? Or even custodes captains that chew through our infantry like it was nothing?

I would like to know what do you think is our best chance to win against competitive lists. Theoryhammer time :-)

Army wide -1 to hit was the bane of our existence

Knights get wrecked by the combination of old enemy warlord trait and overlapping fields of fire.

Mortars and FRFSRF kills a lot of orks

Cyclops absolutely wreck smash captains and custodes captains. Flying characters have been nerfed. Cyclops is also great for pulling units out of close combat. It's awesome when someone is clever enough to trap a hellhound in cc only to take a cyclops to the face and then we blow up our own hellhound.

**Trickstick**

schadenfreude wrote:
Cyclops absolutely wreck smash captains and custodes captains. Flying characters have been nerfed. Cyclops is also great for pulling units out of close combat. It's awesome when someone is clever enough to trap a hellhound in cc only to take a cyclops to the face and then we blow up our own hellhound.

I am actually tempted to pick some up. With me possibly moving my russes into an Emperor's fist spearhead, I need something to go in the brigade. Cyclops are cheap, and the only thing cheaper are HWSs. Nine mortars may be good but cyclops could be nice too.

**schadenfreude**

Trickstick wrote:
schadenfreude wrote:
Cyclops absolutely wreck smash captains and custodes captains. Flying characters have been nerfed. Cyclops is also great for pulling units out of close combat. It's awesome when someone is clever enough to trap a hellhound in cc only to take a cyclops to the face and then we blow up our own hellhound.

I am actually tempted to pick some up. With me possibly moving my russes into an Emperor's fist spearhead, I need something to go in the brigade. Cyclops are cheap, and the only thing cheaper are HWSs. Nine mortars may be good but cyclops could be nice too.

9 mortars is only 99 points and necessary against orks. They usually get CP greedy and go with MSU grots to protect their lootas. 5*10 seems like a lot but just split fire shoot each squad with 1 mortar. Wounds them on a 2+ and after 5 squads take a casualty the runt herder will eat 5d3 grots per turn. You should still have a few mortars left to shoot orks with. By turn 3 the grots should be dead and the lootas can be shot.

I run a Catachan spearhead with nothing but a lord commissar and 3 cyclops and the rest of the army is Cadian. When it detonates it makes a separate shooting attack against every unit so the reroll can be used on each one.

**gbghg**

So the emperor's fist warlord trait will make mordian russ's pretty hilarious, hitting on 4's rerolling all misses in overwatch with the warlord trait, regimental trait, and defensive gunners stacked on top of each other. You'll lose the offensive output that catachan or cadian would give you but you'd be able to hit harder in overwatch then you would normally.

Should make russ's very scary things to charge, to things that don't deny overwatch at least. That relic is pretty solid as well, definitely worth the CP to stick that on a tank commander.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

**MrMoustaffa**

gbghg wrote:
So the emperor's fist warlord trait will make mordian russ's pretty hilarious, hitting on 4's rerolling all misses in overwatch with the warlord trait, regimental trait, and defensive gunners stacked on top of each other. You'll lose the offensive output that catachan or cadian would give you but you'd be able to hit harder in overwatch then you would normally.

Should make russ's very scary things to charge, to things that don't deny overwatch at least. That relic is pretty solid as well, definitely worth the CP to stick that on a tank commander.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

Not to mention that depending on how they word the strat to allow us to fire after advancing, it's entirely possible a tank commander will be able to advance 10+d6", flat out another 10+6", and shoot twice. Need to see how the strat is worded, but we could see leman Russ battle tanks moving 30" and firing twice with the turret if GW isn't careful

I also like the relic tank cannon. Yeah it's not flashy but the amount of 1's I roll on damage I'd use it every game.

**MacPhail**

U02dah4 wrote:
Since you can only give the dagger to an officer and the officers can only take regiment units with them to flank. The bullgryns cant flank. (Unless you mean footslogging down the flank)

Whoops, that's a big oversight... everyone up the middle then, no dagger. Is a 30-strong blob with overlapping auras going to actually do damage with those extra attacks, or just bog things down? Thanks!

**Trickstick**

Guard got a lot of price drops. 15pts off a hydra makes me think of taking some in a brigade. 15pt of a chimera makes mech look much better. 5pts off an armoured sentinel is nice too.

**Cephalobeard**

Real good.

**Horst**

Trickstick wrote:
Guard got a lot of price drops. 15pts off a hydra makes me think of taking some in a brigade. 15pt of a chimera makes mech look much better. 5pts off an armoured sentinel is nice too.

Where are you seeing these?

**Trickstick**

Horst wrote:
Trickstick wrote:
Guard got a lot of price drops. 15pts off a hydra makes me think of taking some in a brigade. 15pt of a chimera makes mech look much better. 5pts off an armoured sentinel is nice too.

Where are you seeing these?

Glorious leaks. Edit: better collection.

**MrMoustaffa**

Guardsmen didn't go up to 5ppm. Brb eating shirt, good Lord, people are going to start witchhunts against us.

**Kcalehc**

Trickstick wrote:
Horst wrote:
Trickstick wrote:
Guard got a lot of price drops. 15pts off a hydra makes me think of taking some in a brigade. 15pt of a chimera makes mech look much better. 5pts off an armoured sentinel is nice too.

Where are you seeing these?

Glorious leaks. Edit: better collection.

Wait, Veterans went down to 5 and regular infantry did not change? I feel some rioting may occur from the Guard haters if that goes live!

**Trickstick**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Guardsmen didn't go up to 5ppm. Brb eating shirt, good Lord, people are going to start witchhunts against us.

They didn't go up because everything else went down. Points drops make people happier than point raises.

**Horst**

Trickstick wrote:
Horst wrote:
Trickstick wrote:
Guard got a lot of price drops. 15pts off a hydra makes me think of taking some in a brigade. 15pt of a chimera makes mech look much better. 5pts off an armoured sentinel is nice too.

Where are you seeing these?

Glorious leaks. Edit: better collection.

Thanks. Looks like I picked the right time to start a guard army.... -25 pts on tank commanders is massive, especially since my list has 4 of them already...

**Trickstick**

Horst wrote:
Thanks. Looks like I picked the right time to start a guard army.... -25 pts on tank commanders is massive, especially since my list has 4 of them already...

You not play rule of 3?

**Horst**

Trickstick wrote:
Horst wrote:
Thanks. Looks like I picked the right time to start a guard army.... -25 pts on tank commanders is massive, especially since my list has 4 of them already...

You not play rule of 3?

.... I'm new to 8th edition and forgot about that. gak. Well, Pask+3 then! Considering 2 of them are executioners with plasma sponsons, it's still like a 100 point reduction to my list.

**Trickstick**

I'm more excited about the new formation. Was planning on 1 relic tank commander and 3 leman russes. However, the price drop on demolisher cannons has maybe changed a few things. I love demolishers, getting right up and blasting things. A command demolisher is 45 pts cheaper now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tempestus formation.

Stratagem

Seems interesting, although taking many valkyries is expensive. Less so with the price drops I guess. Removal of the d6 dying opens up some crazy drops. +1 to hit on plasma is great.

**Bobthehero**

AIIIIIIIIIIIIIRBORNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEE

+1 to hit also means you can get exploding 6's with volley guns jumping from Valks.

**gbghg**

Wyverns that shoot twice, ignore cover and get ap-1 on 6's, sweet jesus, that's ignoring regimental bonuses and other strats and relics that can affect that as well. That's filthy, the amount of GEQ's they'll be able to murder will be hideous.

Bs3+ plasma and melta got price drops as well, down to 11 and 14 respectively.

**Trickstick**

I don't know if 2cp for an extra shot is worth it. Maybe.

In other news, servo arms are free. 30pt tech priests and 5pt servitors. Plasma cannons are 10, so 15pts for a plasma servitor.

**Mr.Omega**

Cephalobeard wrote:
Real good.

Jesus wept

So theoretically speaking, you could have a Cadian Manticore that in one turn:

Fires 4D6 shots (Pounding Barrage)
Hits on a 3+ (Overlapping fields of Fire)
Ignores cover (Orbital tracker)
Is AP -3 (Lord of Ordnance)
Re-rolls 1's to hit (Cadia/MoO)

If you really wanted to delete one unit in particular.

But otherwise though the warlord trait and relic make my 3 Basilisk list so much more powerful I might feel bad if I use it

**Trickstick**

Mr.Omega wrote:
Cephalobeard wrote:
Real good.

Jesus wept

So theoretically speaking, you could have a Cadian Manticore that in one turn:

Fires 4D6 shots (Pounding Barrage)
Hits on a 3+ (Overlapping fields of Fire)
Ignores cover (Orbital tracker)
Is AP -3 (Lord of Ordnance)
Re-rolls 1's to hit (Cadia/MoO)

If you really wanted to delete one unit in particular.

But otherwise though the warlord trait and relic make my 3 Basilisk list so much more powerful I might feel bad to use it

Manticores are not in the formation. Just hydras, wyverns and basilisks.

**Cephalobeard**

1 Wyvern added to a Basic Battery Detachment makes it now 298pts for 3 Mortars and a Wyvern.

Absolute no brainer ally.

**gbghg**

AP4 Basilisk's though...

This formation will be very, very nasty against chaos once you start including the relic of lost cadia and vengeance for cadia. Even just the aerial spotters strat.

The tempestus formation doesn't seem that great to me, the trait is solid but deepstriking your warlord like that is a risky business, the relic seems too sitiational to see much use and while the strat is pretty interesting, I'm not sure how usable it is. Valk's can be a big point sink as opposed to deepstriking and you'll only be able to use that start on one unit.

Edit:nevermind, valk's dropped 40 points, they are now significantly less of a point sink. Shadowswords got more expensive by 6 points as well, in case someone is running a tight list with them.

**Kcalehc**

Trickstick wrote:
I'm more excited about the new formation. Was planning on 1 relic tank commander and 3 leman russes. However, the price drop on demolisher cannons has maybe changed a few things. I love demolishers, getting right up and blasting things. A command demolisher is 45 pts cheaper now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tempestus formation.

Stratagem

Seems interesting, although taking many valkyries is expensive. Less so with the price drops I guess. Removal of the d6 dying opens up some crazy drops. +1 to hit on plasma is great.

Might be suggesting that taking a Valkyrie in a Tempestus Scion detachment does not remove its doctrine, as many believe.

Certainly allows you to essentially drop a bunch of guys in very close range, get off some shots and charge first turn. Meltaguns and the grenadiers stratagem (with Krak) may work well here too.

**Trickstick**

gbghg wrote:
...deepstriking your warlord like that is a risky business...

You can use field commander to give the trait to a prime, without him being the true warlord.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kcalehc wrote:
Might be suggesting that taking a Valkyrie in a Tempestus Scion detachment does not remove its doctrine, as many believe.

It literally says right after that bit in the rulebook that auxillia are exceptions. Never understood the problem.

**zedsdead**

Shadowswords 20+