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I'm not liking the independent character stuff in 8th or the stipulations on who you can shoot.

For me, i'm going to stick with 6th and add my own revisions when playing against friends, 7th against strangers.

You havent heard?
30k is Staying in 7th

 commander dante wrote:
You havent heard?
30k is Staying in 7th

I hate to be that guy, but; Citation Needed.

30k has been confirmed by FW email as moving to 8th. Eventually.

It's a bit early for these polls. 30k 8th ed will probably still have some tweaks to the core game, and 40k 8th isn't even out yet.

 commander dante wrote:
You havent heard?
30k is Staying in 7th

No, but sounds good!

Captyn_Bob wrote:
30k has been confirmed by FW email as moving to 8th. Eventually.

It's a bit early for these polls. 30k 8th ed will probably still have some tweaks to the core game, and 40k 8th isn't even out yet.

>FW
>Eventually

9th will be relased by the time 30k moves to 8th

 commander dante wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
30k has been confirmed by FW email as moving to 8th. Eventually.

It's a bit early for these polls. 30k 8th ed will probably still have some tweaks to the core game, and 40k 8th isn't even out yet.

>FW
>Eventually

9th will be relased by the time 30k moves to 8th

That means people will stop playing it entirely.

The current edition of course, i will play heresy in 7th untill it switches to 8th and will play that until it changes again. We will find out when this is happening at warhammer fest.

Why?
I wish to be part of an expanding and evolving player base for a game instead of a dwindling and stagnating one.

Also to the OP your first sentence actually made me giggle "I dont like that they have slightly changed the way characters work for balance reasons by removing the ability to be in a unit but keeping the effect on nearby units and then have the audacity to not let me kill them any time i want from range!"
So you are claiming to be unhappy that the gameplay effect of characters is staying mostly the same?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly the heresy community has often been the one with the most mature members but these days everyone seems to be half way between denial and chuck your toys from the pram.

 King Amroth wrote:
The current edition of course, i will play heresy in 7th untill it switches to 8th and will play that until it changes again. We will find out when this is happening at warhammer fest.

Why?
I wish to be part of an expanding and evolving player base for a game instead of a dwindling and stagnating one.

Also to the OP your first sentence actually made me giggle "I dont like that they have slightly changed the way characters work for balance reasons by removing the ability to be in a unit but keeping the effect on nearby units and then have the audacity to not let me kill them any time i want from range!"
So you are claiming to be unhappy that the gameplay effect of characters is staying mostly the same?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly the heresy community has often been the one with the most mature members but these days everyone seems to be half way between denial and chuck your toys from the pram.

I think it is because of the plastic models that made 30k much more popular, not saying the plastic models are a bad thing in fact the opposite. But when you attract more people to a gaming system you will get more bad eggs playing it than before

I hope it is but too often the so called "bad eggs" claim to be long time players, honestly the gameplay changes from 40k 7th to 40k 8th are nothing important and do nothing but streamline the actual dice rolling and model use without really touching the tactical side. Fantasy to AOS was a massive change but Aos is also a lot closer to 40k than it is to fantasy.

 King Amroth wrote:
I hope it is but too often the so called "bad eggs" claim to be long time players, honestly the gameplay changes from 40k 7th to 40k 8th are nothing important and do nothing but streamline the actual dice rolling and model use without really touching the tactical side. Fantasy to AOS was a massive change but Aos is also a lot closer to 40k than it is to fantasy.

Also I think a lot of people are worried cause a lot of the core mechanics of the various legions/AoD armies rely on things like initiative and what not so changing it fundamentally changes their legion. But I think forgeworld will do right by us and make a good set of rules. Especially since 30k is such a breadwinner for them they can't afford to screw it up

If Book 8 comes out while they're still on 7th edition, I'll stay 7th.

If they do a full switch to 8th, and book 8 is a part of that, I may just give it up...

I'm praying that they go with a separate rule set, that cleans up 7th, and stays away from 8th.

I'm a gw sceptic but even I think its too early to judge the next edition yet.

Besides I trust forgeworld way more than gw to produce working rules.

 King Amroth wrote:
The current edition of course, i will play heresy in 7th untill it switches to 8th and will play that until it changes again. We will find out when this is happening at warhammer fest.

Why?
I wish to be part of an expanding and evolving player base for a game instead of a dwindling and stagnating one.

Also to the OP your first sentence actually made me giggle "I dont like that they have slightly changed the way characters work for balance reasons by removing the ability to be in a unit but keeping the effect on nearby units and then have the audacity to not let me kill them any time i want from range!"
So you are claiming to be unhappy that the gameplay effect of characters is staying mostly the same?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly the heresy community has often been the one with the most mature members but these days everyone seems to be half way between denial and chuck your toys from the pram.

Personally i like using a lesser HQ character and dumping him in a squad to do something specific - in 8th a character is going to be considered 'wasted' by 'only' buffing a single squad when they have an area effect for it.

I don't like the fact that the new character rules are supposedly to stop 'deathstars' being used, but from where i'm sitting the 'deathstars' just got a whole lot bigger - now that super-group of characters has units in front and behind it, all receiving buffs and all characters giving buffs to each other. Except that now theres no template weapons so any damage done to the characters only hits one model and if you do manage to kill one character the wounds don't trail over to the others - you'll only ever kill one character with a units' shooting (this is also assuming you found a way to target said character now you can only shoot at them if they are the closest model)

I'm expecting nearby troop units to get a sort of 'look out sir' ability to characters within a certain radius to support this 'no more deathstars' notion GW are rolling with..


A lot of HH mechanics (and therefore factions) are going to need a complete overhaul - emperors children who had a bunch of initiative based stuff on the go (sonic shreikers, legion trait) are also going to play different - sweeping units after combat using initiative buffs is their MO, but not for long...

edit: Also, as an Ordo Reductor player i have bodyguards for my characters...

Good luck to FW in figuring out how to adapt that to 8th..

I did not vote because none of the options represent my view.

I will use the version of the rules that FW tells me to use, that might be 7th, that might be 8th and it could be FW's custom HH rules.
I trust that FW likes money, and a good set of HH rules will continue to make money.

I think that the buff bubble provided by say, a chaplain, will be quite small (~6"). So putting two units inside the bubble will sacrifice a lot of both board control and independence of those units, as they have to move as a big blob.

We know that, in 8th, in general, characters can only be targeted if they are the nearest enemy to the firing unit.

I'm really looking forward to 8th edition so I hope FW doesn't drag their feet updating the HH to it. I totally get the logistic issues, but they could always update the red books quickly and keep the 7th ed stuff in the campaign books, since those are all about background and missions.

 SirDonlad wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
The current edition of course, i will play heresy in 7th untill it switches to 8th and will play that until it changes again. We will find out when this is happening at warhammer fest.

Why?
I wish to be part of an expanding and evolving player base for a game instead of a dwindling and stagnating one.

Also to the OP your first sentence actually made me giggle "I dont like that they have slightly changed the way characters work for balance reasons by removing the ability to be in a unit but keeping the effect on nearby units and then have the audacity to not let me kill them any time i want from range!"
So you are claiming to be unhappy that the gameplay effect of characters is staying mostly the same?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly the heresy community has often been the one with the most mature members but these days everyone seems to be half way between denial and chuck your toys from the pram.

Personally i like using a lesser HQ character and dumping him in a squad to do something specific - in 8th a character is going to be considered 'wasted' by 'only' buffing a single squad when they have an area effect for it.

I don't like the fact that the new character rules are supposedly to stop 'deathstars' being used, but from where i'm sitting the 'deathstars' just got a whole lot bigger - now that super-group of characters has units in front and behind it, all receiving buffs and all characters giving buffs to each other. Except that now theres no template weapons so any damage done to the characters only hits one model and if you do manage to kill one character the wounds don't trail over to the others - you'll only ever kill one character with a units' shooting (this is also assuming you found a way to target said character now you can only shoot at them if they are the closest model)

I'm expecting nearby troop units to get a sort of 'look out sir' ability to characters within a certain radius to support this 'no more deathstars' notion GW are rolling with..


A lot of HH mechanics (and therefore factions) are going to need a complete overhaul - emperors children who had a bunch of initiative based stuff on the go (sonic shreikers, legion trait) are also going to play different - sweeping units after combat using initiative buffs is their MO, but not for long...

edit: Also, as an Ordo Reductor player i have bodyguards for my characters...

Spoiler:

Good luck to FW in figuring out how to adapt that to 8th..

Yeah, me too. I don´t think they can generally adapt the whole Magosstuff to 8th, because it is almost impossible. And I don´t wanna have Mymidax-buffbot or Lacrimallus-buffbot or,.....
The characterstuff is just insane in the 8th.

*Not mentioning Phosphex, Graviton and other stuff again, because obvious.

Well there's no point in playing it with the current broken units now, so hopefully they'll actually address those problems when they're forced to update to 8th and it will be playable.

 King Amroth wrote:

Honestly the heresy community has often been the one with the most mature members but these days everyone seems to be half way between denial and chuck your toys from the pram.

QFT!

Yeah, I'm surprised by how many of the 30k community online seem to be sticking their fingers in their ears and swearing that every bit of info released means that 30k will stick with 7ed or get its own rules. FW seem to have been pretty clear in indicating that it WILL switch. Releasing Angelus when everyone knows that it's going to be invalidated would be a bad business decision, so that gives us a finite timeframe.

I'll switch to 8ed as soon as I can - everything I've seen looks great. Even if a few individual things look odd, the changes as a whole look so good that I'm convinced it's going to be a better game system anyway!

The real problem for me is playing Heresy in the interim. If 40k rules come out soon, and they are a better, faster game, there's no way I'm going to want to continue with 7ed any longer than I have to, or try and keep both rulesets in my head at the same time. So I'll probably be shelving the HH stuff until they update.

On the other hand, since the vast majority of HH units and weapons exist in 40k too, a lot of the work will have been done by the release of 40k 8th. Hopefully it won't take FW too long to update the Legion-specific units and odd weapons that are left over.

 SirDonlad wrote:


edit: Also, as an Ordo Reductor player i have bodyguards for my characters...

Good luck to FW in figuring out how to adapt that to 8th..

You're right, that will be impossible to adapt unless...



Something like this maybe?

I'm curious, why do some people think everything in the new edition must work exactly the same way it works now? 8th isn't just another incremental revision to 3rd, it's an all new game, a true 4th edition of 40K.

What I want to happen is Book VIII "Angels" released as 7th edition, and then Forge World to work very carefully and diligently to convert everything to 8th Edition, maintaining the flavor and balance that the 30K Horus Heresy has been so famous for. Just for the sake of completeness for the Horus Heresy in 7th edition. I just want the final, Big Black Book to complete the series under the same rule set (6th/7th).

8th Ed is a true change of the rules. Similar terms and some concepts will carry over, but the overall playing of the game will change significantly. How it will play only GW and the few people that have play tested it know. From everything I've read so far, it will have a very much Age of Sigmar feel to it (which I like and play regularly). Which is... different. Right now, I have a sense of what each Legion is capable of, how they play, and their relative "power level". A new edition means all that goes out the window. I want to see how the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and White Scars compare to the other 7th edition Legions. After that, I'll jump into 8th with both feet.

What will probably happen? We'll get a Day One PDF of the Legions with place holder stats so we can play Horus Heresy games in 8th edition from day 1. They won't be balanced or play tested or anything else, and it will quickly become evident that 30K is broken. Then FW will slowly, ever so slowly, drip out updated Legion books, probably at the rate of 2-3 Legions every six months. The first book to be done will be Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and White Scars because presumably, that is the book FW is working on right now. Around Holiday Season 2017, we'll see the first 30K book released for 8th ed- DA, BA, and WS. Six months later, we'll see the first three Traitor Legions. Once again, the Horus Heresy will be strung out over five plus years, with some Legions still using a Day One PDF with placeholder rules. "Codex Creep" will be a real thing, because those Day One place holder stats are going to suck the life out of whatever Legion you play. Anyone that played 2ed/Rogue Trader and then converted over to 3rd Ed knows exactly what I'm talking about. All the current armies received place holder stats/rules day 1, and that was OK at first. Then when the Codexes started rolling out, there was a definite shift in power levels, with New Codex > Older Codex > Place Holder Stats.

That's why I want DA, BA, and WS released in 7th first, so I can play a complete game until Forge World gets around to updating 30K properly. I'm just not looking forward to playing 30K with those place holder stats.

I do agree they should release the last book in 7th, then release new red books in 8th

Games set during The Horus Heresy using Forge World's Battles in the Age of Darkness expansion will continue to use the rules set out in the current edition of Warhammer 40,000. Please check our Facebook page for further information

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-IE/The-Horus-Heresy-Mechanicum-Taghmata-Army-List
Well.....

We would have to wait past angelus. White Scars ain't in angelus
Also, they have rules, let it go

 ArbitorIan wrote:
On the other hand, since the vast majority of HH units and weapons exist in 40k too, a lot of the work will have been done by the release of 40k 8th. Hopefully it won't take FW too long to update the Legion-specific units and odd weapons that are left over.

Yeah, while it's a big job, moving everything to 8th won't be *quite* as difficult as some are making it out to be, IMO. As you said, a lot of the heavy lifting with units should be done already for 40K. I also suspect that GW has some translation rubrics they can share with the FW team for other items, and the FW team can also draw on the 40K stuff to find closest comparators, etc.

The main reason I think it might take a while is because FW has a small team that already probably has too much on their plates.

TonyL707 wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:


edit: Also, as an Ordo Reductor player i have bodyguards for my characters...

Good luck to FW in figuring out how to adapt that to 8th..

You're right, that will be impossible to adapt unless...

Spoiler:

Something like this maybe?

Good attempt but no.
Mechanicum HQ's do more than trade wounds with their bodyguard - they use servitors to improve battlesmith rolls as well as denoting firepower via augury scanner - this is before we get into how the Lachrimallus based army list works.

The truth is that It's more than just the HQs - the Tech-Preist Auxillia adepts are characters too, as are Myrmidon Lords who are a character in both Secutor and Destructor units. Moar headache.


That tau profile adds more worry actually - not only can these drones do 'look out sir' for any tau infantry, their weapon can target characters even when they're not the closest unit.. >sigh< top teir tau again.

If GW intended to get rid of deathstars they went about it the wrong way - rather than seperating the characters from the unit they should have stopped re-rolls. They did it for 'twin linked' why not for armour/invuln/FNP rolls?

 Ankhalagon wrote:

Games set during The Horus Heresy using Forge World's Battles in the Age of Darkness expansion will continue to use the rules set out in the current edition of Warhammer 40,000. Please check our Facebook page for further information

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-IE/The-Horus-Heresy-Mechanicum-Taghmata-Army-List
Well.....

Well they won't be officially stating other to minimize loss sales of books and models.

Not updating to 8th may leave books, but Forge World is a miniatures company. And they're not going to be selling as many miniatures for an obsolete game.

My little group is sticking with 7th. I don't like most of what I've heard they're doing with 8th, I've got no real interest in learning a brand new game when I like the current one just fine, and above all I'm not interested in buying new books from FW.