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 Amishprn86 wrote:
But we dont know if they get their own thing yet, and a point deduction while having DS and blasters might be very good.

Oh, no doubt. I wasn't saying the Scourges might not be good, just that they aren't getting Kabal or Wych cult stuff. So they aren't like CWE as someone mentioned.
Scourges with Blasters actually sound awesome.

Another thing the article mentions is that ther is indeed a "Webway" stratagem that is apparently used at the beginning of the game. Hopefully it is for multiple units (as in more than 2) and not like the CWE one.

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 Galef wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
But we dont know if they get their own thing yet, and a point deduction while having DS and blasters might be very good.

Oh, no doubt. I wasn't saying the Scourges might not be good, just that they aren't getting Kabal or Wych cult stuff. So they aren't like CWE as someone mentioned.
Scourges with Blasters actually sound awesome.

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Yeah i cant wait, I honestly cant believe the reduced the price of them.

Excited - but concerned Kabal tactics is going to apply to only a small number of units.

Archon
Kabalites
Transports
Ravagers
Flyers

I guess that is everything in a competitive list - but it doesn't give you many choices.

Wyches or Wracks tomorrow I guess.

 Galef wrote:

Oh, no doubt. I wasn't saying the Scourges might not be good, just that they aren't getting Kabal or Wych cult stuff. So they aren't like CWE as someone mentioned.
Scourges with Blasters actually sound awesome.

Another thing the article mentions is that ther is indeed a "Webway" stratagem that is apparently used at the beginning of the game. Hopefully it is for multiple units (as in more than 2) and not like the CWE one.

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The Webway Portal is the stratagem from Chapter Approved, 1 CP for one unit of Infantry/Bikers/Beasts and 3 CP for two.

I am very excited by this preview, it looks like the codex is going to be lovingly made with cool fluffy rules and stratagems. My favourite for now is the Kabal of the Flayed Skull, as I planned on building my army around Kabal units and lots of Raiders. Scourges are among my favourite models, so I'm glad they're getting some love with points reductions and extra movement thanks to the Flayed Skull's trait. The Screaming Jets stratagem is pure happiness, I just feel like it's Christmas already But I said I have to paint my whole armies before buying anything new, guess I'll motivate myself to paint a lot now.

The Obsidian Rose trait is really interesting too, and I wonder why the article says it's perfect for armies with few transports, I believe it's ideal. Screaming Jets your Raider more than 12" from your target so as to avoid getting intercepted, and still deliver rapid-fire weaponry from there. I'll have to see the rest of the codex before making my mind of course, I'm still more interested by the Flayed Skull's trait for now.

Can't wait to see the Covens ! And Wych Cults, for these sweet Reavers. Don't really like much more from this faction though. So I do hope we'll have options for a fast HQ.

Edit: Ah, they won't mock the lack of transports in my actual army (AdMech) any longer with this codex hahaha !

There is one thing that's good to keep in mind in regards to lowered cost of Scourges. GW might have very well upped the cost on some armaments while making Scourges cheaper. This might encourage using Shardcarbines while costing more to equip them with Blasters or Dark Lances.

I will also be very curious to see if they've changed Haywire Blasters.

 Aaranis wrote:
The Webway Portal is the stratagem from Chapter Approved, 1 CP for one unit of Infantry/Bikers/Beasts and 3 CP for two.

Ah, thanks. I missed that. I haven't actually purchased CA yet. Waiting on the FAQ to put in all the Erratas for the BOOKS I"VE ALREADY PURCHASED, rather than buying yet another book to carry around.

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I'm a little bit concerned about units that fall through the subfaction cracks. There had better be something to make taking those units worthwhile.

Nevermind.

 AesSedai wrote:
I'm a little bit concerned about units that fall through the subfaction cracks. There had better be something to make taking those units worthwhile.

Well Scourges are getting a points drop. They are still going to be a very good option for Deep Striking Dark Light fire, and the boost to Blasters will mean they do it for cheaper than they do with Dark Lances.

I'm loving the poisoned tongue trait and relic. re-rolling wounds of 1 is always good, and having an 18" poisoned weapon that can seek out characters even if they arent visible is super sneaky and right in line with what the Drukhari are known for: poisoning from the shadows.

Flayed skull is good too. No cover if coming from flying vehicles, and of course re-rolling to hit rolls of 1, especially when combined with splinter racks. The chance to generate more 6s will be welcomed.

But I;m really waiting to see what the wych cults bring to the table. I want my unit of 20 hellions to shine.

 AesSedai wrote:
I'm a little bit concerned about units that fall through the subfaction cracks. There had better be something to make taking those units worthwhile.

Good point, I had not thought of that. If that is the case we run into the age old issue of units that are never takes vs those that are due to having the added rules.

 Icculus wrote:
I'm loving the poisoned tongue trait and relic. re-rolling wounds of 1 is always good, and having an 18" poisoned weapon that can seek out characters even if they arent visible is super sneaky and right in line with what the Drukhari are known for: poisoning from the shadows.

Flayed skull is good too. No cover if coming from flying vehicles, and of course re-rolling to hit rolls of 1, especially when combined with splinter racks. The chance to generate more 6s will be welcomed.

But I;m really waiting to see what the wych cults bring to the table. I want my unit of 20 hellions to shine.

I think with Wych Cults and Haemoculus Covens we'll need to see more than just the traits, for both subfactions the problems have been in the very stats of the units. Good traits will of course help, but if Wyches are still rubbish then it wont matter.

 Icculus wrote:
I'm loving the poisoned tongue trait and relic. re-rolling wounds of 1 is always good, and having an 18" poisoned weapon that can seek out characters even if they arent visible is super sneaky and right in line with what the Drukhari are known for: poisoning from the shadows.

Flayed skull is good too. No cover if coming from flying vehicles, and of course re-rolling to hit rolls of 1, especially when combined with splinter racks. The chance to generate more 6s will be welcomed.

But I;m really waiting to see what the wych cults bring to the table. I want my unit of 20 hellions to shine.

Yeah that relic is really good against non vehicles. They told us in that article poisoned weapons always wound non vehicles on 4+ and this artefact gets +2 to wound rolls meaning you're wounding any non vehicle on 2s and ignoring cover. Deals d3 damage so probably not killing most important characters in a single turn but it could still be useful.

So the screaming jet stratagem. How does this work with charging? Can you deepstrike 9" away, disembark, and then charge with one or both?

Not sure it's been mentioned but you know what's a real shame? The fact you can't pair scourge and heat lances with the kabal faction ability for +6" range. That would've made em a 24" gun and they'd be able to deep strike and half range heat lance shot things to death. Missed potential right there. Sadly scourge don't belong to a sub-faction. Hopefully scourge get some sort of boost other than the points reduction.

 Niiai wrote:
So the screaming jet stratagem. How does this work with charging? Can you deepstrike 9" away, disembark, and then charge with one or both?

No. Deep strike happens at the end of the turn and counts as moving, you can't disembark after moving. The vehicle itself can charge though.

Damn I zapped over the fact that Scourges aren't <Kabal>, how is that so ? I was so happy to have Scourges that move 15" and reroll 1 to Hit :(

 Aaranis wrote:
Damn I zapped over the fact that Scourges aren't <Kabal>, how is that so ? I was so happy to have Scourges that move 15" and reroll 1 to Hit :(

They got cheaper tho (in the review it says this).

Scourges are not Kabals, they are mercenary just like Incubi and Mandrakes.

Edit: Add some more info.
When you see Commorragh, it is full have tall buildings and every part of the city, even the tops of the builds are being fought over for power/rank. Many Druhkari have even try to claim the tops of the towers and skys, the Scourge. They do wings b.c of the raising air from the bottom (There is some fluff that goes over large updrafts from vents), they can not actually gain full flight out of Commorragh, but short bursts of flight like domesticated chickens.

More importanty, they are not really fighters, and they hold no legion to any kabal. but will work with them, mostly tho they are Spies, b.c they are above the city, they can see more than normal and normally have information to sell. All DE trying to gain or stay in power needs information at all times while in Commorragh, Scourges helps with this. When they are paid for combat, it is as an assassin to take out small targets. It is very also costly for a Kabal to get the Haemonculus to work on them.

So basically, they are Mafia Flying assassins

So will blast pistols be worth it?

Heard some rumor that trueborn have been cut, so ive been considering to run 2x5 kabalite warriors with a blaster each in a raider, perhaps put a blast pistol there as well.

Perhaps using the disintregator cannon instead of the dark lance will be a good idea, then each loaded raider will have some anti GEQ,MEQ and anti tank in one loadout.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Damn I zapped over the fact that Scourges aren't <Kabal>, how is that so ? I was so happy to have Scourges that move 15" and reroll 1 to Hit :(

They got cheaper tho (in the review it says this).

Scourges are not Kabals, they are mercenary just like Incubi and Mandrakes.

Edit: Add some more info.
When you see Commorragh, it is full have tall buildings and every part of the city, even the tops of the builds are being fought over for power/rank. Many Druhkari have even try to claim the tops of the towers and skys, the Scourge. They do wings b.c of the raising air from the bottom (There is some fluff that goes over large updrafts from vents), they can not actually gain full flight out of Commorragh, but short bursts of flight like domesticated chickens.

More importanty, they are not really fighters, and they hold no legion to any kabal. but will work with them, mostly tho they are Spies, b.c they are above the city, they can see more than normal and normally have information to sell. All DE trying to gain or stay in power needs information at all times while in Commorragh, Scourges helps with this. When they are paid for combat, it is as an assassin to take out small targets. It is very also costly for a Kabal to get the Haemonculus to work on them.

So basically, they are Mafia Flying assassins

Thanks for the lore ! I knew a bit about them but you obviously read way more than me. Couldn't they employ spies on jetbikes ? Or are jetbikes pricy too ? Or maybe too noisy ?

 ThePie wrote:
So will blast pistols be worth it?

Heard some rumor that trueborn have been cut, so ive been considering to run 2x5 kabalite warriors with a blaster each in a raider, perhaps put a blast pistol there as well.

Perhaps using the disintregator cannon instead of the dark lance will be a good idea, then each loaded raider will have some anti GEQ,MEQ and anti tank in one loadout.

Even if they are removed you stil have the index entry.

 Aaranis wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Damn I zapped over the fact that Scourges aren't <Kabal>, how is that so ? I was so happy to have Scourges that move 15" and reroll 1 to Hit :(

They got cheaper tho (in the review it says this).

Scourges are not Kabals, they are mercenary just like Incubi and Mandrakes.

Edit: Add some more info.
When you see Commorragh, it is full have tall buildings and every part of the city, even the tops of the builds are being fought over for power/rank. Many Druhkari have even try to claim the tops of the towers and skys, the Scourge. They do wings b.c of the raising air from the bottom (There is some fluff that goes over large updrafts from vents), they can not actually gain full flight out of Commorragh, but short bursts of flight like domesticated chickens.

More importanty, they are not really fighters, and they hold no legion to any kabal. but will work with them, mostly tho they are Spies, b.c they are above the city, they can see more than normal and normally have information to sell. All DE trying to gain or stay in power needs information at all times while in Commorragh, Scourges helps with this. When they are paid for combat, it is as an assassin to take out small targets. It is very also costly for a Kabal to get the Haemonculus to work on them.

So basically, they are Mafia Flying assassins

Thanks for the lore ! I knew a bit about them but you obviously read way more than me. Couldn't they employ spies on jetbikes ? Or are jetbikes pricy too ? Or maybe too noisy ?

Reavers were more of a sport like Road Rash game (If you know what that is, if not Death Race movie is a good example), lower tier wyches used then (some kabals too, there is a known Archon that used it and became greatly powerful), try to gain money by winning Death Races (lol its called Death Races i just remembered), and becomes Arena Champions, so i think they are just more concern about their bikes and racing than politics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:

 ThePie wrote:
So will blast pistols be worth it?

Heard some rumor that trueborn have been cut, so ive been considering to run 2x5 kabalite warriors with a blaster each in a raider, perhaps put a blast pistol there as well.

Perhaps using the disintregator cannon instead of the dark lance will be a good idea, then each loaded raider will have some anti GEQ,MEQ and anti tank in one loadout.

Even if they are removed you stil have the index entry.

I hate the idea of using Index units in Codex, GW just needs to bite the bullet and make upgrade kits for the 20+ index units to be proper codex ones. Latex molds are cheap and so is finecast/resin, i'd rather have it that way than using 2 books.

Blasters are going to almost certainly be an auto-take, blast pistols are I think going to be a "take for fun" weapon. The range is so short you'll almost never use it outside of a combat; competitively I don't think its worth risking your HQs being in combat, and they probably aren't worth the points on non-HQ units.

In casual games I plan to take it whenever I can though just for the meme-factor of one-shotting stuff.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Blasters are going to almost certainly be an auto-take, blast pistols are I think going to be a "take for fun" weapon. The range is so short you'll almost never use it outside of a combat; competitively I don't think its worth risking your HQs being in combat, and they probably aren't worth the points on non-HQ units.

In casual games I plan to take it whenever I can though just for the meme-factor of one-shotting stuff.

Depends, i think Blast pistols will be number 1 pick with Kabal of Black Heart, you are really wanting a close range DE army, that is the one you pick (tho im sure its going to be the weakness trait for DE)

The +1 on the PFP chart looks pretty useless for kabal units, while it could have been great on wych cult and coven units. There's no real melee dedicated kabal unit in the codex.

I like the D6 damage on blasters, this way typical spam of 5 man squads of kabalites in venoms with a blaster each seems more reliable.

It also should end the dark lance loadout on scourges, which never convinced me, as they really want assault weapons and not heavy ones. Scourges with blasters will probably become the new equivalente of blasterborn in venoms.

The blaster fix made me quite optimistic about the haywire blasters. I'd really love scourges equipped with the best anti tank in the codex once again.

I really like the obsidian rose if it works on vehicles 42" range dark lances are delightfull. Index trueborn out of a webway with 24" d6 damage blasters. It is all good

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/28/codex-drukhari-preview-haemonculus-covensgw-homepage-post-3/

Yeah there are some interesting things there. 4++. The target characters stratagem for our pain engines or tantalus.

I warlord trait that gives 1d3 cp. Good for that 3x warlord stratagem we saw yesterday.

All of this is OK. I guess it depends on how good the actual units are.

The negative leadership penalties are cool, and sound like they'd be fun to build around, but I doubt it'll be efficient enough to justify the investment, especially when everyone and their dog is immune to leadership anyway. In a fun list, that would likely be my go-to for a coven, but the 4++ just seems way too good to pass up.

4++ is the big winner here. That's a very significant durability increase. At that point a regular Wrack is not much less durable than equal points in Guardsmen vs S4, and is a bit more durable if near a Haemonculus. Granted, the Guardsmen are a lot deadlier. Meanwhile the Pain Engines get a huge buff vs anti-tank weapons and could easily be really good units if they get some other small improvements.

Ld modifiers are almost never worth giving something up for. Better AP in CC is not a huge deal either, unless Wracks get a lot better at it.