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I've not had any luck with Ork Planes in 7th and I have only brought out my Dakkajet one time in 8th and it definitely wasn't worth the price tag in that game. The math hammer is also against Dakkajets. I do still like Deff Koptas and am really enjoying the look of pure unadulterated horror on my opponents face when a unit of 3 Deff Koptas flies over his super expensive elite squad and instantly inflicts 5 mortal wounds on them Or when my opponent spends his entire 1st turn attempting to remove the Kommandos and Deff Koptas that appeared in his back field and completely forgets about the 90+ Boyz who just waltzed up the table and are now in his face for a turn 2 assault.

I am definitely of the opinion that Deff Koptas are horribly over priced for what little they do and how fragile they are but I still see a use for them over an Ork plane simply because it can appear behind enemy lines and go after his expensive stuff he is trying to hide in the back.

One last good thing I will say about Deff Koptas is they have a decent save, T Value and Wounds so that realistically your opponent has to designate more then a single squad of Marines to deal with them. In one particularly funny game my opponent ignored my Killa Kanz for an entire turn and focused all his anti-tank fire on my Deff Koptas who somehow managed to survive with unlucky rolls on his part.

Breng77 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
The plane's durability is what's bothering me. If currently my footslogging list has no good targets for multi-wound weapons as i'm planning to get rid of deffkoptas in favor of stormboyz, the plane's going to be a prime target for all the missiles and lazers the opponent has. And i can't reserve a plane.

That's bothering me with orks. Our stuff really promotes spamming of same-type units. I want to field a horde but i also want a couple trukks, koptas and probably a plane that i've only fielded a couple times in fun games of 7-th. But if i want to go competitive, those tougher more expensive targets seem to not be worth it. Especially with how cover works (doesn't) now. As i can't even mitigate incoming damage. It's close to impossible to hide 100% of the model from all those hostile antennas and even if you get cover, it's ignored with high ap weapons.

I feel like to some extent this is true. I think you can run a balanced list, but it would be closer to 50-50 infantry armor, more extreme on either end and you provide obvious targets for specific shooting types.

I think it is more the other way around. To be competitive you need to go extreme. Either 100% horde or 100% mechanized. Fliers, tankbustas, nobz, wagons etc are decent units, but they just have no synergy with a green tide list. A green tide list only really works well with characters, boyz, stormboyz, kommandos and gretchin. Big gunz can also work semi-well. Everything else will just weaken your pressure while giving all his lascannons and plasmas some juicy targets.

pismakron wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
The plane's durability is what's bothering me. If currently my footslogging list has no good targets for multi-wound weapons as i'm planning to get rid of deffkoptas in favor of stormboyz, the plane's going to be a prime target for all the missiles and lazers the opponent has. And i can't reserve a plane.

That's bothering me with orks. Our stuff really promotes spamming of same-type units. I want to field a horde but i also want a couple trukks, koptas and probably a plane that i've only fielded a couple times in fun games of 7-th. But if i want to go competitive, those tougher more expensive targets seem to not be worth it. Especially with how cover works (doesn't) now. As i can't even mitigate incoming damage. It's close to impossible to hide 100% of the model from all those hostile antennas and even if you get cover, it's ignored with high ap weapons.

I feel like to some extent this is true. I think you can run a balanced list, but it would be closer to 50-50 infantry armor, more extreme on either end and you provide obvious targets for specific shooting types.

I think it is more the other way around. To be competitive you need to go extreme. Either 100% horde or 100% mechanized. Fliers, tankbustas, nobz, wagons etc are decent units, but they just have no synergy with a green tide list. A green tide list only really works well with characters, boyz, stormboyz, kommandos and gretchin. Big gunz can also work semi-well. Everything else will just weaken your pressure while giving all his lascannons and plasmas some juicy targets.

I think you missed what I was saying, you either need to go to the extreme, or about 50-50 balance. So like 90 boyz + 3 Wagons, 4 trukks and contents can work because you have enough targets of each type to work. It is probably not as strong perhaps as going super skew, but it is much better than having say greentide with a single wagon of tankbustas, or a kan wall with a single squad of boyz. So you either go all in on one strategy or somewhat middle of the road, but adding in 1 or 2 elements of either is bad. It also depends on your meta, if you meta is heavy anti-vehicle then all horde is great, if they are super anti-horde, all vehicle is great, if it is more balanced, it really depends.

Not so much tactics as such...

I only play 1 army which is Orks and I'm an infrequent gamer as my limited time is split between my multiple interests.
I was planning on picking up the rulebook and Index come payday (end of the month) but now hearing the Codices are starting their run is giving me pause.... Should I wait for the codex to drop?
I know this year will be Mareens and Chaos heavy, but are we likely to see an Ork codex by Christmas/February? I've lost track of how many armies there actually are in the 40k universe as I only play casually with friends.

SemperMortis wrote:
I've not had any luck with Ork Planes in 7th and I have only brought out my Dakkajet one time in 8th and it definitely wasn't worth the price tag in that game.

For Dakkajets, I'm never quite sure what massed S6 shooting is meant to be killing. It's nice volume of fire, but it feels like a solution in search of a problem. Crisis suits? I guess?

The bommers, on the other hand, I've really enjoyed. Back line shooting units in cover- devestators, fire warriors, havoks, etc- mulch my infantry pretty hard. So far, my planes have survived long enough to get both bombs off, and have had a much higher kill count than similar points (140 ish?) worth of big gunz or mek gunz, with no need to leave a unit behind to defend a vulnerable back line. Efficiency depends on targets, but the reach and reliability against entrenched infantry has been great, and made my opponents want to pull their hair out.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I've not had any luck with Ork Planes in 7th and I have only brought out my Dakkajet one time in 8th and it definitely wasn't worth the price tag in that game.

For Dakkajets, I'm never quite sure what massed S6 shooting is meant to be killing. It's nice volume of fire, but it feels like a solution in search of a problem. Crisis suits? I guess?

The bommers, on the other hand, I've really enjoyed. Back line shooting units in cover- devestators, fire warriors, havoks, etc- mulch my infantry pretty hard. So far, my planes have survived long enough to get both bombs off, and have had a much higher kill count than similar points (140 ish?) worth of big gunz or mek gunz, with no need to leave a unit behind to defend a vulnerable back line. Efficiency depends on targets, but the reach and reliability against entrenched infantry has been great, and made my opponents want to pull their hair out.

S6 shooting last edition was actually super powerful (Scatbikes) the problem is that Orkz couldn't, and still cant, deliver enough volume of accurate fire to make it worth it. You could buy a couple of maxed out Dakkajets for just shy of 300pts and get 18 relatively accurate S6 shots this edition, but for a similar price you could field about 18 Lootas who put out 36 shots on average (12 hits) at higher strength that do more damage.

SemperMortis wrote:
Rismo, I never feel like TFG when I play the best units in the ork codex because realistically that is the only way to play them and have a chance. If you want to bring a ton of Weirdboyz go for it.

It's the way you'll place in tournies, not the only way to play

stratigo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Rismo, I never feel like TFG when I play the best units in the ork codex because realistically that is the only way to play them and have a chance. If you want to bring a ton of Weirdboyz go for it.

It's the way you'll place in tournies, not the only way to play

"and have a chance" Yeah i'll amend that and say "A decent chance" and further amend that yes you can win with nothing but FlashGitz and Stompas but it will be horrifically harder then taking our best units and realistically you will be starting the game at a clear disadvantage.

SemperMortis wrote:

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
I've not had any luck with Ork Planes in 7th and I have only brought out my Dakkajet one time in 8th and it definitely wasn't worth the price tag in that game.

For Dakkajets, I'm never quite sure what massed S6 shooting is meant to be killing. It's nice volume of fire, but it feels like a solution in search of a problem. Crisis suits? I guess?

The bommers, on the other hand, I've really enjoyed. Back line shooting units in cover- devestators, fire warriors, havoks, etc- mulch my infantry pretty hard. So far, my planes have survived long enough to get both bombs off, and have had a much higher kill count than similar points (140 ish?) worth of big gunz or mek gunz, with no need to leave a unit behind to defend a vulnerable back line. Efficiency depends on targets, but the reach and reliability against entrenched infantry has been great, and made my opponents want to pull their hair out.

S6 shooting last edition was actually super powerful (Scatbikes) the problem is that Orkz couldn't, and still cant, deliver enough volume of accurate fire to make it worth it. You could buy a couple of maxed out Dakkajets for just shy of 300pts and get 18 relatively accurate S6 shots this edition, but for a similar price you could field about 18 Lootas who put out 36 shots on average (12 hits) at higher strength that do more damage.

You actually get 36 guaranteed shots with dakkajets. so 18 hits. Lootas are anywhere from 18-54 shots. So dakkajets have consistency there. Then the dakkajets can also move very fast, get a -1 to hit, can only be targetted by flyers in combat, and are more durable. Also, not susceptible to battleshock. While the lootas have more damage its only useful when targeting the right unit. While dakkajets are good.. they have a similar problem I have with flash gitz is that they are best at targetting units that boyz blobs can simply handle better, and cheaper. Lootas shine when shooting light-medium vehicles and multi wounds models.

SemperMortis wrote:

stratigo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Rismo, I never feel like TFG when I play the best units in the ork codex because realistically that is the only way to play them and have a chance. If you want to bring a ton of Weirdboyz go for it.

It's the way you'll place in tournies, not the only way to play

"and have a chance" Yeah i'll amend that and say "A decent chance" and further amend that yes you can win with nothing but FlashGitz and Stompas but it will be horrifically harder then taking our best units and realistically you will be starting the game at a clear disadvantage.

Is your local club filled with those guys that you can't have a decent game without crafting all your lists like they are going straight to a GT? Or are you that guy?

I used the mobility in mine to single out a character model by moving almost on top of it and shooting. About as surgical as it gets for an army that doesn't aim.

S6 gets that 3+ to wound on T5 bikes, -1 AP helps their.

stratigo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

stratigo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Rismo, I never feel like TFG when I play the best units in the ork codex because realistically that is the only way to play them and have a chance. If you want to bring a ton of Weirdboyz go for it.

It's the way you'll place in tournies, not the only way to play

"and have a chance" Yeah i'll amend that and say "A decent chance" and further amend that yes you can win with nothing but FlashGitz and Stompas but it will be horrifically harder then taking our best units and realistically you will be starting the game at a clear disadvantage.

Is your local club filled with those guys that you can't have a decent game without crafting all your lists like they are going straight to a GT? Or are you that guy?

no my area is filled with your average player mix in my opinion, some competitive lists, some for fun lists and most are middle of the road lists.

The difference is that if you take the Ork middle of the road stuff and face anyone who has middle of the road lists you are going to be at a disadvantage because our average stuff is crap.

Funny you are saying I am "That guy" but I play Orkz as my only army. I don't think I have ever met anyone who plays orkz solely who was "TFG".

SemperMortis wrote:

stratigo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

stratigo wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Rismo, I never feel like TFG when I play the best units in the ork codex because realistically that is the only way to play them and have a chance. If you want to bring a ton of Weirdboyz go for it.

It's the way you'll place in tournies, not the only way to play

"and have a chance" Yeah i'll amend that and say "A decent chance" and further amend that yes you can win with nothing but FlashGitz and Stompas but it will be horrifically harder then taking our best units and realistically you will be starting the game at a clear disadvantage.

Is your local club filled with those guys that you can't have a decent game without crafting all your lists like they are going straight to a GT? Or are you that guy?

no my area is filled with your average player mix in my opinion, some competitive lists, some for fun lists and most are middle of the road lists.

The difference is that if you take the Ork middle of the road stuff and face anyone who has middle of the road lists you are going to be at a disadvantage because our average stuff is crap.

Funny you are saying I am "That guy" but I play Orkz as my only army. I don't think I have ever met anyone who plays orkz solely who was "TFG".

You can be TFG regardless of what army you play, though it's more common for TFG to play the flavour of the month armies. It's not as if army power level determines your behaviour. And judging from your end all be all attitude with Orks, I wouldn't be surprised if your opponents are wary of you since it seems like every game you'd just complain about the Ork army regardless if you won or lost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rismonite wrote:
I used the mobility in mine to single out a character model by moving almost on top of it and shooting. About as surgical as it gets for an army that doesn't aim.

S6 gets that 3+ to wound on T5 bikes, -1 AP helps their.

That's a good application of dakkajets IMO, given that we lack snipers in our army and kommandos don't have the dakka or survivability to take out most characters. I think it is however very dependent on how terrain is set up since characters can still hide in buildings or the corner of rocks fairly easily.

Also, is the magic number for boyz squads still 30 for footslogging lists? I've been trying 20 man mobz so far and I'm wondering if its worth the extra investment to get the extra attacks or to split up the boyz to give more options for objective grabbing.

Does this part of the rules imply an Ork Warbiker can throw a grenade, fire his slugga, and fire the guns on the warbike?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, forget the grenade, just slugga and bike guns


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nvm, I should try more reading

But it looks like a nob biker with kombi skorcha could fire all

I believe this is one of the reasons why bikes got such an uptick in points. Is that it give an entire other platform that can be used to fire in addtion to the normal weapons of the wielder.

Unfortunately for the most part this is not as good for our Orks as others (SM, Eldar) because the majority of our Ork bikers have only their bike guns and slugga (which cant be fired along with everything else).

I used this tactic with my Autarch Skyrunner to great effect. He got to fire his Twin Shuricats, Laser Lance, and Fusion Gun every turn.

 Beatonator wrote:
Not so much tactics as such...

I only play 1 army which is Orks and I'm an infrequent gamer as my limited time is split between my multiple interests.
I was planning on picking up the rulebook and Index come payday (end of the month) but now hearing the Codices are starting their run is giving me pause.... Should I wait for the codex to drop?
I know this year will be Mareens and Chaos heavy, but are we likely to see an Ork codex by Christmas/February? I've lost track of how many armies there actually are in the 40k universe as I only play casually with friends.

Ork book isn't coming for several months. The first 4 are SM, Grey Knights, Death Guard, and CSM. Death Guard is rumored for September. I'm sure a few xenos books are coming shortly after, but since the Ork model line is complete there isn't much priority for them. I figure Eldar need some plastic so they will be sooner than Orkz.

So get the Index.

How do people load out their Kommandos?

Are the Burnas worth taking over Slugga in every instance?

Want to run 1x15 with a Power Klaw just as a distraction )and because I've got access to Warhammer World easily so easy access to the conversion kit which I love).

 Rismonite wrote:
Does this part of the rules imply an Ork Warbiker can throw a grenade, fire his slugga, and fire the guns on the warbike?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, forget the grenade, just slugga and bike guns


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nvm, I should try more reading

But it looks like a nob biker with kombi skorcha could fire all

Yes, you can fire the bike's guns and the model's guns. The Grenade has its own rules though, check the BRB.

 Frozocrone wrote:
How do people load out their Kommandos?

Are the Burnas worth taking over Slugga in every instance?

Want to run 1x15 with a Power Klaw just as a distraction )and because I've got access to Warhammer World easily so easy access to the conversion kit which I love).

Burnas are always worth taking over a slugga. I would highly suggest you split that 1 big group into 3 little groups and take an extra HQ for a CP. PLUS 1 big Kommando unit = 1 Big Target. 15 Ork boyz with 6+ saves (ignoring cover and what not) aren't exactly frightening, nor can they threaten more then 1-2 units.

As for the TFG comment, I definitely have a blast with my opponents. I know this is going to stun you but I can enjoy my army while talking about how crap it is on the forums of a website. Usually the most common talking point is the Kustom jobz I have on my ork boyz including a couple center pieces like my Nob flipping the bird to everyone and my Kan stomping a Marines head flat

Other forms of conversation revolve around the Military since this is a military town.

Just a minor thing I thought might be worth 5 points.

I'm putting a grabbing klaw on the deff rolla battlewagon. It takes 1 attack away from the rolla, but at AP-3 and D3 damage...IF it hits.

Not sure it's worth 5/6 of a boy, though.

Will the clans be getting specific sub faction rules like the ASStartes? Or just a rules update in a hardcover book?

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Will the clans be getting specific sub faction rules like the ASStartes? Or just a rules update in a hardcover book?

I am really hoping they give the Klanz something, I also am really hoping for a heavy handed rewrite of our current codex. We have almost no synergy in the entire book beyond giving boyz more attacks and +1 WS, ohh and that over priced 6+ FNP and the relatively cheap and not very useful (in my opinion) 5++ from shooting.

Ok anybody care to toss out ideas for clan specific "tactics". What are your "klan rulez"?

And do you think they will make something for the Freebooterz? Those klanless Flash Gitz are really bothering me, it seems as though GW will ignore our space pirates...

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Ok anybody care to toss out ideas for clan specific "tactics". What are your "klan rulez"?

Goffs are going to be +1 attack. And then some stupid nonsense that somehow makes them less effective somewhere else like movement.

Evil Sunz are going to be Bikers = Troops and they get +1 to cover saves And then some nonsense about not being able to take walkers or Heavy vehicles.

Bad Moons will allow you to give +1 shots or maybe 4+ armor to flash gitz and throw ina leadership issue or something as a negative.

Snakebites, +1 toughness or +1 to FNP rolls but can't take ranged weapons/vehicles.

Blood Axes gives your kommandos +1 to cover and Looted vehicles but can't be within X inches of other Ork Klanz.

Deathskulls are going to give lootas a buff of some kind OR a 6++ or maybe a reroll 1s for ranged weapons. Not sure what their downside will be.

SemperMortis wrote:

Deathskulls are going to give lootas a buff of some kind OR a 6++ or maybe a reroll 1s for ranged weapons. Not sure what their downside will be.

You'll have to take lootas.

Would not mind those Bad Moons Clan Rules.

Lots of ways to mitigate Morale.

Just..annoyed the SM CT are free (at writing).

 Grimskul wrote:

Also, is the magic number for boyz squads still 30 for footslogging lists? I've been trying 20 man mobz so far and I'm wondering if its worth the extra investment to get the extra attacks or to split up the boyz to give more options for objective grabbing.

It really depends. I've tried 10, 20 and 30 man squads. In smaller games - like 500 pt ones, 20 man squads are good enough. In larger games i go for 30 and 10. 30 for the main squads, 10 to fill troop slots. There are way fewer downsides to larger squads in 8-th than there were in 7-th. And some significant buffs.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Would not mind those Bad Moons Clan Rules.

Lots of ways to mitigate Morale.

Just..annoyed the SM CT are free (at writing).

not free, the cost is rolled into the models; and if its not appropriate, there is room for it to be adjusted.

The current win/loss ratio statistics gathered from dakka doesn't look that great for orks.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730601.page

Orks - 53W 74L

To cut a long story short, we're bottom tier only above tau but will be on the last place after the uptade with an influx of tau wins that have been reported but haven't been accounted yet.