Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: FAQ August 10th]

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**john27**

I think big E spent a bit more time on the primarchs than the marines, and before that, figuring out his plan, and cawl had access to big E's data etc. and also I'm fairly certain big E wanted spacemarines to be disposable after the crusade, the thunder warriors were easy enough when you have an army backing you up, but the army itself would be hardy to destroy....

**str00dles1**

changemod wrote:
Simple: Cawl doesn't care about his Primaris marines, so skimped on life support to make the Redemptor more mass producible, didn't include a force field generator despite this being entirely standard for larger dread models... Didn't even make it robust enough to qualify as T8 despite it's massive size. (This also might be why it's far less flexible in armament: Less parts to customise and ship). Gulliman also doesn't particularly value the primaris, apparently seeing them as "Cawl's abominations" and favouring regular marines over them except as a tool, so he makes no move to fix a dread that treats them as disposable parts.

The primaris themselves pick up on this callous approach, which is why the apothecary is carelessly treading on his battle brother without the faintest hint of respect despite supposedly being a medic.

And so instead of getting an honoured ancient who develops 2+ skill stats and is interred in a priceless relic, we have a primaris carelessly scooped up and poured into a much more mass producible walker that slowly kills him.

Wrong.

He does like them. Dark Imperium has many references in it that he likes them. How they see him as a father figure and he cares they see him as such, even if to the emp they are all tools.

The "Abominations" remark was to Cawl Inferior who lives on Roboutes ship. He hates it, and the entire experience of going to talk to him. Its also stated a million times (in this thread) and the internet how Roboute favors Primaris and uses them over normal marines and normal marines understand their time is coming to an end.

**spiralingcadaver**

His Master's Voice wrote:
changemod wrote:
Gulliman also doesn't particularly value the primaris, apparently seeing them as "Cawl's abominations" and favouring regular marines over them except as a tool, so he makes no move to fix a dread that treats them as disposable parts.

If you-re going to post headcanon, please mark it a s such. Confusion is the weapon of the Great Enemy.

Seriously, yeah, if that was personal idea, it sure sounded like a statement of fact.

DarkStarSabre wrote:
Cawl's entire fluff presence is an abomination. He apparently can do something the Emperor, Primarchs or Fabius Bile couldn't do...and he's not even trained in it. Like, not one jot. He's a bloody tech priest.

Tech priests have been established as biologists and medical experts (IIRC something called a "biologis" or something?), and even if that weren't the case, if he spent 9,000 years learning medicine, he'd have still had 1,000 years to work on it.

Don't get me wrong, I think primaris marines are stupid, but a robotically enhanced genius bureaucrat with a large support network and ten millennia could probably accomplish a lot.

edit: quote levels

**BrianDavion**

doubly more so when you realize Cawl was working from the emperor's ntoes

**NinthMusketeer**

Kirasu wrote:
Kawauso wrote:
Gerinako wrote:
Ok...so I'm a little behind on the fluff

Why can't a normal Space Marine critically wounded in battle pilot a Primaris Dreadnought.

It's bodily remains - even if it's just a brain isn't it....

Size isn't important (she said)

The fluff mentions something to the effect of the strain of piloting a Redemptor eventually causes the occupant in the sarcophagus to 'burn out' and states that the Mechanicum are pretty indifferent about this, viewing the pilot as another 'component' in need of regular replacement.

I would imagine since Primaris are supposed to be all-around tougher than traditional Astartes the strain would be much too great for them.

Which doesn't make much sense (as per usual with the forced and amateur Primaris fluff) considering that Contemptor and Leviathan Dreadnoughts are tougher than Redemptors

What? It makes perfect sense that the new tech is worse than HH era tech, 40k is based around the concept of technological decline. Everything about Primaris tech should have aspects like this, honestly.

**Galas**

Yeah. As Musketeer said, all of Primaris Tech should be like this.

They are more powerfull than normal Space Marines, ok. But the 40k tech should be worse than 30k tech, so... they are more powerfull, but they are like Thunder Warriors. Inestable, or short lived, etc...

The fluff of the Redemptor has to be the most proper grimdark and 40k fluff of all the Primaris lore. This new tank for example? It should be like the Skitarii and Mechanicus technology and give cancer to the marines that ride inside it. Or something like that.

**Elbows**

Let's not forget that by giving more inherent weaknesses they're setting themselves up for Chaos versions in the future, etc. "Oh they spaz out for...like no reason at all" etc. All part of the grand machine!

**Wulfey**

Reece and Frankie confirmed on stream today that Forgeworld chapters will just use their parent chapter's relics and tactics.

EG, <Raptors> will just use <Ravenguard>.

**Crimson**

Wulfey wrote:
Reece and Frankie confirmed on stream today that Forgeworld chapters will just use their parent chapter's relics and tactics.

EG, <Raptors> will just use <Ravenguard>.

Well, that's disappointing; I was hoping for more variety.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Crimson wrote:
Wulfey wrote:
Reece and Frankie confirmed on stream today that Forgeworld chapters will just use their parent chapter's relics and tactics.

EG, <Raptors> will just use <Ravenguard>.

Well, that's disappointing; I was hoping for more variety.

That could still be just a for the time being thing.

**spiralingcadaver**

Curious about the ones which aren't set- Minotaurs IIRC are unknown, and Astral Claws definitely are.

Personally, I'm not horribly disappointed, 12(?) flavors of loyalist Marine with the seem like plenty to pick from, though a few certainly had a unique feel.

**hotsauceman1**

Is it true khan doesn't have rules for being on a bike and librarians can't take bikes anymore?

**Ulfhednar_42**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Curious about the ones which aren't set- Minotaurs IIRC are unknown, and Astral Claws definitely are.

Personally, I'm not horribly disappointed, 12(?) flavors of loyalist Marine with the seem like plenty to pick from, though a few certainly had a unique feel.

So... Celestial Lions, DBA - Astral Claws a successor of Imperial Fists, but using the Crimson Fist Warlord trait. All so I can sub Ekene Dubaku in as Lugft Huron with a gold paint job.

Got it. I think.

**warboss**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Is it true khan doesn't have rules for being on a bike and librarians can't take bikes anymore?

In case it doesn't start at the correct point, it's 40:49. I can make out his rules exactly but his strength and toughness appear to both be 4 which makes it unlikely that he has bike rules/options given that he doesn't have that with his fig. I suppose you can add him along with Marneus in power armor to things you can't take. As for librarians on bikes, that was clear when I saw it elsewhere in the video and they are indeed gone.

**hotsauceman1**

What about other HQ on bikes and command squads on bikes? They are in the index.

**Kirasu**

Another example of converting being a dying part of the hobby in gws eyes. You are a good customer only if you buy and play each kit as predetermined.

**NH Gunsmith**

All I wanted from this book was a generic Scout HQ choice, oh well. It is interesting to see that Roboute prefers the Primaris Marines, and that standard Marines know their time is limited. I wonder if it will cause more standard Marines to turn to Chaos?

**warboss**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
What about other HQ on bikes and command squads on bikes? They are in the index.

You'd have to watch the video. I think in the index all the bike profiles were separate and clearly labelled as such (grand poobah on bike instead of just grand poobah) so they'll probably be the same in the codex. Overall, I'm very disappointed with the (lack of) customization and conversion opportunities in the "if we don't currently make it in one kit then you probably can't use it" edition.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kirasu wrote:
Another example of converting being a dying part of the hobby in gws eyes. You are a good customer only if you buy and play each kit as predetermined.

Well, that is *technically* an improvement over the Kirby era where GW thought their customers were primarily modellers and buying was the best part of the "hobby". At least now they acknowledge that people play with their toy soldiers too.

**Retrogamer0001**

NH Gunsmith wrote:
All I wanted from this book was a generic Scout HQ choice, oh well. It is interesting to see that Roboute prefers the Primaris Marines, and that standard Marines know their time is limited. I wonder if it will cause more standard Marines to turn to Chaos?

Honestly, this is GW talking to the fanbase. Phasing out of normal Marines IS a thing.

**Mr Morden**

They pretty much have to do this as they have not only completed the Space Marine range and need to sell new models to everyone who has masses of Marines.

Continuing both ranges would also be devestating to the chances of anyone else getting updates.

**Mr.Church13**

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
NH Gunsmith wrote:
All I wanted from this book was a generic Scout HQ choice, oh well. It is interesting to see that Roboute prefers the Primaris Marines, and that standard Marines know their time is limited. I wonder if it will cause more standard Marines to turn to Chaos?

Honestly, this is GW talking to the fanbase. Phasing out of normal Marines IS a thing.

I agree while I don't thing the kits or rules for the standard Astartes will disappear any time soon. I 100% think that we've seen the last release of any new standard Marine kits.

**spiralingcadaver**

Yeah, I expect that other than maybe some plastic characters, we won't be seeing any replacement marine kits, at least not for a long time.

**Galas**

Space Marines are the prime example of "Dying from sucess"

They have received so much care that they reached a point where they literally can't add nothing to the range without stepping on top of other armies.Whats only left to do is to remade in plastic some old Finecast characters.
So GW did the most reasonable thing they could do to remain selling Space Marines. They made slighly different versions of units that already exists.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Kirasu wrote:
Another example of converting being a dying part of the hobby in gws eyes. You are a good customer only if you buy and play each kit as predetermined.

Except for that Blanchitsu article which is all about conversions.
Or that one guy's deathguard army which apparently is all converted.

**Kanluwen**

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
NH Gunsmith wrote:
All I wanted from this book was a generic Scout HQ choice, oh well. It is interesting to see that Roboute prefers the Primaris Marines, and that standard Marines know their time is limited. I wonder if it will cause more standard Marines to turn to Chaos?

Honestly, this is GW talking to the fanbase. Phasing out of normal Marines IS a thing.

Except for y'know, how they've said that some Chapters don't trust/field the Primaris and how the Grey Knights have none at all...right?

At this juncture, it's a given that anyone who feels like GW is going to get rid of normal Marines is going to grab anything and hold onto it just like the opposite is true of those who think GW won't do so.

**Red Corsair**

Pretty huge changes in here.

This is winters SEO doing a follow up video to the one posted earlier.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically they continued the trend of , if it doesn't have an official model, it can't be taken. Nothing new to xenos players but this is a huge set back for marine players who are used to kitbashing with near limitless possibilities. That looks to be gone going forward, which actually makes the future of primaris stuff even more boring IMHO since they seem to lack even novel options.

**insaniak**

Mr Morden wrote:
They pretty much have to do this as they have not only completed the Space Marine range and need to sell new models to everyone who has masses of Marines..

There are plenty of things that they could have done to sell more marines without changing to a larger scale.

They could have continued with releasing boxes of the different armour marks, or released the Primaris-style MkX armour in a matching scale.

They could have tweaked the existing design to improve proportions without completely rescaling them.

They could have upgraded existing kits to include more or different options.

They could have released more Chapter-specific kits or upgrade options.

Or they could have simply resculpted the now 20-year-old Space Marine kits to take advantage of the increased level of detail allowed by advances in technology in the intervening time.

Relegating the existing range to limbo and replacing them with models in a completely different scale was an option. It wasn't the only option.

Clearly GW felt it was the best way to go... There's not really any way to know if they were right.

**NinthMusketeer**

Sales will determine the future. If people keep buying vanilla marines then they will continue, if people totally abandon vanilla marines for primaris then they will be phased out relatively quickly. Obviously the result will be somewhere in-between, so we'll see what it ends up as.

**Nightlord1987**

Did they just say no Combi-grav on sergeants? I thought that was already part of the kit?

Sucks my Libby, Tech, Kahn, and brand new Apothecary on bike are unusable.

**Red Corsair**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Sales will determine the future. If people keep buying vanilla marines then they will continue, if people totally abandon vanilla marines for primaris then they will be phased out relatively quickly. Obviously the result will be somewhere in-between, so we'll see what it ends up as.

See this isn't realistic to expect of a company worrying about their future bottom line. They committed to this mess. My guess, so far the primaris stuff is VERY underwhelming on the table, so initial sales will look good then drop into the toilet at which time I expect a new marine codex that drops their points and probably makes them even better in order to spike sales again while not really giving the old marine the same attention which over time will cause them to wither on the vine.

I fully expect a marine codex every 2 years going forward. I mean we had barely 2 years between the 6th and 7th codexes and now less then that for the 8th. With each update I fully expect the new guys to creep ahead in rules edge as needed to boost sales.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nightlord1987 wrote:
Did they just say no Combi-grav on sergeants? I thought that was already part of the kit?

Sucks my Libby, Tech, Kahn, and brand new Apothecary on bike are unusable.

I have a shelf full of dark eldar models they did the same thing to 4 years ago. No official model, no rules for even marines now that they are second fiddle to the new boys.